Is This The Magic Battery?

On Oct 30, 10:18*am, Dave Head > wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:04:50 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 29, 11:26*pm, Dave Head > wrote:
> >> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:41:49 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >On Oct 29, 8:17 pm, Dave Head > wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 01:34:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >On 2010-10-30, Dave Head > wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:57:51 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> >>>On 2010-10-30, Dave Head > wrote:
>
> >> >> >>>> No, you don't. You pull into a fueling station and they remove your
> >> >> >>>> discharged battery and install a fully charged battery. The car will
> >> >> >>>> be made to allow this change to be performed rapidly.
>
> >> >> >>>And get stuck with someone else's damaged, defective, or near end of
> >> >> >>>life expensive battery pack?
>
> >> >> >> So what? You don't own it, you're renting it.
>
> >> >> >So what? being stranded on the side of the road?
>
> >> >> Naw, as soon as it is installed and goes thru the self-test, it will
> >> >> be shown to have high-resistance cells, and you demand another
> >> >> battery.
>
> >> >> >The defective
> >> >> >battery damaging your car?
>
> >> >> Nope. All known battery fault possibilities will be defended against
> >> >> by the "engine computer."
>
> >> >> >The owner of the battery blaming you and
> >> >> >charging you for the damage to it?
>
> >> >> Don't think so. The only thing the battery needs is a circuit
> >> >> breaker. If the company doesn't put one in the battery to defend it,
> >> >> its their fault.
>
> >> >> >There's a whole a lot of hassle
> >> >> >there.
>
> >> >> Only if you want to try to dream it up.
>
> >> >> >Plus you did pay for the original when you purchased the car.
>
> >> >> No, you didn't. You buy the car, you rent the battery.
>
> >> >> >I don't
> >> >> >know about you but to me handing over an expensive battery pack I paid
> >> >> >for after 40 miles of use and getting some crappy beat up unit in
> >> >> >exchange that I won't even be considered of the owner of sounds like a
> >> >> >really crappy deal.
>
> >> >> Naw, that's the beauty of renting / exchanging batteries. You never
> >> >> own one. It fits the paradigm of always buying stuff that
> >> >> appreciates, renting stuff that depreciates. (except of course you
> >> >> bought the car itself, which is also going to depreciate. If we were
> >> >> smart, we'd all lease our cars...)- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> >So, in your wild imagination, just who the hell _does_ pay for that
> >> >battery pack that is initially in the car? *They don't come free you
> >> >know.
>
> >> >Harry K
>
> >> Probably the electric company that is renting it to you, same way as
> >> they pay for all those transformers and power poles and wire and
> >> generators and etc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >And of course that cost is not passed on to the consumer. *UHUH! *Like
> >it or not, no matter what scheme you propose, you _will_ be paying for
> >that battery pack when you buy the car.
>
> >Harry K
>
> Sure you will, but then the car will be probably $15K less than it
> would otherwise be.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Care to show your math on that flight of fancy? Whether you pay for
it up front or through higher rental fees, you will stillhave to pay
for it.

Harry K

On Oct 30, 2:03*pm, Dave Head > wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:42:24 -0700, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>
> > wrote:
> >"Dave Head" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
> >[snip...]
>
> >> So? *You have limited range in a regular car too, until you fill the
> >> gas tank again...
>
> >Except for, it takes how long to fill the gasoline tank or diesel fuel tank
> >vs. having to recharge the battery pack for the electric car?
>
> No, you won't charge the battery. *You'll have the battery changed out
> with a fresh one. *It'll be engineered to be quick, like a Woods
> Brothers pit stop...
>
>
>
> >Oh yeah, and then when the electric car battery dies it will cost serious
> >money when compared to the less-than-100 cost of the conventional lead/acid
> >battery used by normal and diesel vehicles. Look at what the hybrid car
> >special batteries cost: $1500+ to replace. Battery-only electric cars will
> >likely cost at least that to replace if not even more.
>
> No, you won't own the battery. You rent it, from the power company.
> You exchange it when its "empty." *They take it out of service when it
> is at the end of its life. *It'll all be in the rental fees.

Read my lips. You _will_ pay for the original and a replacement when
needed one way or another. The cost of a new battery pack does not
"disappear" just because it is a rental.

Harry K

On Oct 30, 6:15*pm, Alan Baker > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *Mark > wrote:
> > On Oct 30, 6:33 pm, "Duine" > wrote:
> > > Please provide a link since all I've read about electric cars is they
> > > require 4-8 hours depending on the voltage and charger.
>
> > > Duine
> > > Pray for Obama
> > > Psalm 109.8
>
> > > "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
> > > DUMBASS. They're already charging electric SUV's and
> > > Trucks and Cars in 10 minutes. Been doing it for 2 years.
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Zv5RFgmWY
>
> > ---
> > Mark
>
> Not a lot of detail about what that 10 minute charge actually gets you...
>
> But the website says:
>
> "A: Each Phoenix comes with an integrated on-board 7kW charger that
> plugs into 220V power for a 5 to 6 hour charge. "
>
> <http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/why-choose-phoenix/faq.php#6>
>
> So I'm wondering why "5 to 6 hour[s]" would be necessary if it can be
> charged in 10 minutes....
>
> --
> Alan Baker
> Vancouver, British Columbia
> <http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

U-tube with amazing claims = vapro ware. You can even find believable
over-unity videos that are believable if you don't know basic physics

Harry K

On 10/31/2010 12:24 AM, Harry K wrote:
> On Oct 30, 2:03 pm, Dave > wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:42:24 -0700, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
>>
>> > wrote:
>>> "Dave > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>> [snip...]
>>
>>>> So? You have limited range in a regular car too, until you fill the
>>>> gas tank again...
>>
>>> Except for, it takes how long to fill the gasoline tank or diesel fuel tank
>>> vs. having to recharge the battery pack for the electric car?
>>
>> No, you won't charge the battery. You'll have the battery changed out
>> with a fresh one. It'll be engineered to be quick, like a Woods
>> Brothers pit stop...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Oh yeah, and then when the electric car battery dies it will cost serious
>>> money when compared to the less-than-100 cost of the conventional lead/acid
>>> battery used by normal and diesel vehicles. Look at what the hybrid car
>>> special batteries cost: $1500+ to replace. Battery-only electric cars will
>>> likely cost at least that to replace if not even more.
>>
>> No, you won't own the battery. You rent it, from the power company.
>> You exchange it when its "empty." They take it out of service when it
>> is at the end of its life. It'll all be in the rental fees.
>
> Read my lips. You _will_ pay for the original and a replacement when
> needed one way or another. The cost of a new battery pack does not
> "disappear" just because it is a rental.
>
> Harry K
Friend of wife has a Prius. Didn't drive it right to keep batteries charged.
Batteries replaced under warranty were very expensive. I can't wuote
price, if she had had to replace because I don't remember but the
15,000.00 doesn't seem far off plus or minus.

On 2010-10-30, Dave Head > wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 01:34:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-10-30, Dave Head > wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:57:51 +0000 (UTC), Brent
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2010-10-30, Dave Head > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, you don't. You pull into a fueling station and they remove your
>>>>> discharged battery and install a fully charged battery. The car will
>>>>> be made to allow this change to be performed rapidly.
>>>>
>>>>And get stuck with someone else's damaged, defective, or near end of
>>>>life expensive battery pack?
>>>
>>> So what? You don't own it, you're renting it.
>>
>>So what? being stranded on the side of the road?
>
> Naw, as soon as it is installed and goes thru the self-test, it will
> be shown to have high-resistance cells, and you demand another
> battery.

Yeah because batteries never pass their self test then fail later...
laff.

>>The defective
>>battery damaging your car?

> Nope. All known battery fault possibilities will be defended against
> by the "engine computer."

Fire suppression systems are large, heavy, and expensive. How do I know?
There was one in the hybrid electric I helped put together.

>>The owner of the battery blaming you and
>>charging you for the damage to it?

> Don't think so. The only thing the battery needs is a circuit
> breaker. If the company doesn't put one in the battery to defend it,
> its their fault.

Ma and pa station owners don't think that way.

>>There's a whole a lot of hassle there.

> Only if you want to try to dream it up.

It's called the reality of exchange items.

>>Plus you did pay for the original when you purchased the car.

> No, you didn't. You buy the car, you rent the battery.

So how do you get out of the dealer's lot?

>>I don't
>>know about you but to me handing over an expensive battery pack I paid
>>for after 40 miles of use and getting some crappy beat up unit in
>>exchange that I won't even be considered of the owner of sounds like a
>>really crappy deal.

> Naw, that's the beauty of renting / exchanging batteries. You never
> own one. It fits the paradigm of always buying stuff that
> appreciates, renting stuff that depreciates. (except of course you
> bought the car itself, which is also going to depreciate. If we were
> smart, we'd all lease our cars...)

so instead of having a parked car costing me nothing, it will now cost
me because of the battery rental every month. It's like having a gas
tank rental... rent the tank and pay for the energy to fill it.

I haven't had a car payment for over a decade. Tell me how leasing would
have been smarter. In the last 11-12 years I haven't had a car payment
my car occasionally needs something or I want to bring something back to
new condition. This would not even make for a year of car payments over
a dozen years.

On 2010-10-31, Harry K > wrote:
> On Oct 30, 10:18*am, Dave Head > wrote:

>> >> >So, in your wild imagination, just who the hell _does_ pay for that
>> >> >battery pack that is initially in the car? *They don't come free you
>> >> >know.
>>
>> >> >Harry K
>>
>> >> Probably the electric company that is renting it to you, same way as
>> >> they pay for all those transformers and power poles and wire and
>> >> generators and etc.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >And of course that cost is not passed on to the consumer. *UHUH! *Like
>> >it or not, no matter what scheme you propose, you _will_ be paying for
>> >that battery pack when you buy the car.
>>
>> >Harry K
>>
>> Sure you will, but then the car will be probably $15K less than it
>> would otherwise be.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Care to show your math on that flight of fancy? Whether you pay for
> it up front or through higher rental fees, you will stillhave to pay
> for it.

It's paid for by the same fairy that makes a $400 phone cost only $100
with a 3 year contract!

On 2010-10-31, Jim Yanik > wrote:
> Dave Head > wrote in

>> Naw, that's the beauty of renting / exchanging batteries. You never
>> own one. It fits the paradigm of always buying stuff that
>> appreciates, renting stuff that depreciates. (except of course you
>> bought the car itself, which is also going to depreciate. If we were
>> smart, we'd all lease our cars...)
>>
>
> you ignore the vast cost of every service station stocking a huge number of
> battery packs. the battery pack is one of the MAJOR cost components of an
> electric auto. AKAIK,no two vehicle models use the same pack.
> And don't figure on the price dropping significantly in "volume
> production".

All the different chemistries, battery management circuits, etc and so
on. I don't see auto manufacturers settling on one pack or even a few
packs. Economy cars will come with cheaply made battery packs and luxury
cars will come with durable battery packs that charge faster, can
sustain higher current draws, and last longer.

On 2010-10-30, Mark > wrote:

>> We are already well past the doomsday dates that were set in the early
>> 70s. That should be proof enough for anyone not to listen to such
>> scaremongering nonsense.

> I'm not talking nonsense or scaremongering.
You're talking the exact same stuff that was supposed to have gotten us
by now.

> America is going to be invaded across the Mexican
> border by armed gangs too numerous to stop. There
> are going to be BILLIONS, not millions, of ecology
> refugees when the glaciers are gone in just a few
> years.

They aren't. You're being fed bull****. Al Gore is buying ocean front
property. He doesn't even believe the sea is going to rise if you look
at his _actions_ and where he has put millions of his own dollars.

On 2010-10-30, Mark > wrote:

> No, the answer is simply...water. You can split out
> the hydrogen now with very low DC voltage and run it
> through a hydrogen fuel cell to produce clean electricity.

You can't have a perpetual motion machine. You need an energy input.

When man figures out how to harness a different natural source of energy
then electrics will take over.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2010 21:04:15 -0500, Jim Yanik >
wrote:


>Coal is nasty and has to be dug out of the ground;it kills people.
>Nuclear is the way to go.It's far safer.

Where's uranium and thorium come from?

Yeah, nukes are better, but the envirowackos won't let you build 'em.
Soooo... do solar. That _can_ be done. Solar-thermal is especially
easy, no rare earth minerals involved. Only need mirrors, controls
to point 'em, a boiler up high, and some water to turn into steam.
Then just run thru a turbine connected to a generator...