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Oil Independence Day 2006



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 29th 06, 04:15 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Posts: n/a
Default VUE Green Line

SnoMan wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 20:58:54 -0400, Ritz > wrote:
>
>> They're ALL a pain to work on when they break. I'd rather roll the dice
>> on a the Honda 3.5L + 5A drivetrain than anything comparable GM has at
>> this juncture. If the VUE had a GM powerplant/trans I wouldn't have
>> purchased it.

>
>
> I am not saying the a GM engine is better but I am saying that a Honda
> engine is not the best either. I had a freind that used to drive Honda
> for years until he got tired of getting skinned to get it worked on
> out of warranty. Honda are okay when they are new but you do not want
> to have one grow too old on you.


*whatever*

I have worked on lots of different cars over the years. In terms of
drivetrain reliability, Honda is definitely above average. If we were
talking about Mitsubishi or Toyota, then I'd agree with you.

Cheers,
Ads
  #22  
Old June 29th 06, 05:02 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Default VUE Green Line

> How long will the batteries last?
Not as long as I would own a car. Will kill resale value when people
relise what the damn things cost.

> What is the battery replacement cost?

Look no further than at golf cart or fork lift batteries. $1000-$5000
(buy a used 7 year old hybrid for 5 grand, spend another 5 grand on the
battery. Yeah that will happen... Oh and spend another 5 grand on
repairs because of the extra labor involved working on and around more
frig'n system's)

> Will the "twin-turbo diesel engine" burn biodiesel fuel?

Yes.

> >>> Buy a Honda, it's made in the USA. Don't buy a Saturn, it's made in
> >>> Germany. ;-)


AFAIK only the supercharged Ecotec is made in Germany. Some Saturn
chassis's tend to be Opel in origin but made here from what I remember.

> >> That's why I bought a VUE. Honda reliability, but made in the USA. :-)

> >
> >
> > And Honda's are a real pain in a arse to work on when they break too.


Especially if they're the interference type.

> They're ALL a pain to work on when they break. I'd rather roll the dice
> on a the Honda 3.5L + 5A drivetrain than anything comparable GM has at
> this juncture. If the VUE had a GM powerplant/trans I wouldn't have
> purchased it.


Once the 3800's gone there wont be a V6 by GM, or anyone, that I would
buy anymore but as far as 4 cylinders (inline 5 & 6's as well) and 8
cylinders engines and transmissions (discounting the cvt) GM is way
ahead of the game in my opinion. GM does a better job of making most
engines mechanic friendly.

I read a rumor of the Vue production being relocated to Mexico in 2008.
If this is the case 2007's are the last model I'll be interested in.
Funny thing... Car companies will send production out of the US to
reduce cost but I doubt a 2008 or above Vue will be any cheaper than any
previous Vue... [cough cough d*ckheads cough cough]

> You're supposed to buy a new car every 3-5 years.


Spoken like a true import owner!!! Yeah I'll part with my 98' Bonneville
ummmm 10 years from now LMAO! XD

> It could be worse. The unfurled printout of recall notices could be
> over six feet high. I've had two such cars.


Recall notices or TSB's? I had a recall on a fuel pressure regulator and
that was it! If you are talking about TSB's the number of TSB's mean
nothing. You can find a lot of TSB's on one car but you can quickly cut
them in half on which powerplant and transmission you have. Then the
rest of the TSBs seldom ever apply. Some are even stupid things like
trim removal.

Here's a fun one to have, research Service Bulletin 01-009. Its a Honda
TSB btw.
  #23  
Old June 29th 06, 06:26 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Posts: n/a
Default VUE Green Line (was: load of crap)

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 01:59:37 GMT, BläBlä
> wrote:

>In article .com>,
says...
>> Nobody wants a full-size SUV hybrid. Bubba Joe Sixpack likes a big
>> truck with a powerful engine. NASCAR Dad doesn't want a vehicle that
>> automatically regulates performance for greater fuel efficiency.
>> OTOH, Soccer Mom likes the VUE. For this reason, the VUE Green Line
>> is somewhat promising.
>>
>> The majority of people in this market want a compact or midsize car.
>> Sorry if the profit margin isn't to GM's liking. Here's a bit of
>> irony: Honda and Toyota hybrids are selling at premium prices.
>>
>> --
>> <http://www.well.com/user/silly/>
>> "Don't forget to register to vote" - Frank Zappa

>
>
>You know you can get the best frig'n Hybrid made on this planet and it
>wont save you a damn dime in the short or long run. That is the whole
>point of a hybrid aint it? To save money by not spending so much? Why
>does anyone want to pay a premium on a brand new car that will take
>100,000 miles before it starts to turn a profit on that price
>difference?
>
>Do not fall for the Hybrid Hype. Somewhere people got this fallacy that
>the point of the hybrid is to save gas and forgot the real point was to
>save MONEY.
>
>irony: People are stupid.


I know a few people who have hybrids and have read posts by many on
Usenet and i don't think any of them ever expressed any certainty that
they would save money. Most assume they won't.

The intent for most of them is to reduce CO2 emissions, for which the
cars are very effective.




  #24  
Old June 29th 06, 06:31 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Default VUE Green Line

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 18:33:39 GMT, "Private" >
wrote:

>
>"SnoMan" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On 27 Jun 2006 01:38:49 -0700, "Thomas Armagost" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>It's impossible to know how high the price of gasoline at the pump
>>>will be in the years ahead.

>>
>>
>> Maybe not exactally but you can forecast a trend. I predict some
>> $4/gallon fuel before end of 2007 and deisel fuel could hit that this
>> winter if it is a cold winter. It would have last winter if it had
>> been a cold winter. If you do not plan on high fuel prices in coming
>> years you will pay the price because like it or not it is coming.
>> -----------------
>> The SnoMan
>> www.thesnoman.com

>
>The big cost questions that nobody is asking about hybrids are,
>How long will the batteries last?


Are you kidding? Everyone asks this. The answer is 150,000 miles or
more. YMMV

>What is the battery replacement cost?


I just saw a post saying that used battery packs from crashed cars are
going for $1000 or less. Buyers are mostly experimenters.

>including disposal of the old batteries which will probably be considered
>hazardous waste?


Toyota pays a $200 bounty for batteries. The NiMH batteries are
considered less hazardous than lead acid.

  #25  
Old June 29th 06, 12:46 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Default VUE Green Line

On 28 Jun 2006 19:36:12 -0700, "Thomas Armagost" >
wrote:

>The VUE is a typical "New World Order" vehicle. It's a Frankenstein's
>Monster made of parts from anywhere and everywhere on Earth. This
>year the V6 is a Honda engine. A few years down the road Saturn may
>switch to an Opel diesel engine. Or Volvo. Or SAAB.
>
>Will GM even bother to continue supporting the Green Line when Saturn
>changes the VUE's style?



Good point. I think GM has lost site of what the Saturn should realy
be. Word is they want to migrate it into a upper scale brand and
abondon the economy part of the line and Saturn built it reputation in
the early years on simplicity and durabilty as there is a lot of old
high milrage Saturns out there but the new models are less and less
capable of the same performace in this regard and it may bring a slow
death to the brand if they forget their roots.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
  #26  
Old June 29th 06, 12:50 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
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Posts: n/a
Default VUE Green Line

On Wed, 28 Jun 2006 23:15:00 -0400, Ritz > wrote:

>I have worked on lots of different cars over the years. In terms of
>drivetrain reliability, Honda is definitely above average. If we were
>talking about Mitsubishi or Toyota, then I'd agree with you.



Toyota has got their act together and I have seen some go some
incredible mileages. 200K is nothing for a old Toy and they are easier
to work on too. Honda focus on cars seem to be creature comforts first
and serviceablity second were Toyoa seems to balance this better.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com
  #27  
Old July 20th 06, 05:49 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Sir Creep
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Posts: 8
Default VUE Green Line (was: load of crap)


BläBlä wrote:
> You know you can get the best frig'n Hybrid made on this planet and it
> wont save you a damn dime in the short or long run. That is the whole
> point of a hybrid aint it?


Well, on a completely SELFISH view of things, yes.
I suspect the hybrid (or alternative fuel cell) research was driven
more by the fact that fossil fuels are FINITE, and there are DEPENDANCY
and ENVIRONMENTAL concerns. In fact, I find it safer to presume that
one who purchases a hybrid is less concerned about their wallet as they
are about the environment and in long-term sustainability for their
children and children's children, but then you are called 'bla bla' for
a reason.

So no, to answer your qeustion, NO. Your premise is off base. No one
in their right mind is purchasing a hybrid Vue to 'save money'.

Why
> does anyone want to pay a premium on a brand new car that will take
> 100,000 miles before it starts to turn a profit on that price
> difference?


My calculations show one would have to drive over 213,000 miles
(presuming a savings of about 19% on their fuel bill at current prices
of $3./gal.)...[ahhh, but what will gas cost in another year, or 3
years, or 5 years?]. You only save about $7.00/tank (of 12 gallons).
To recoup the $4500 price difference, you'd need to fill up 658 times
(times a presumed 324 miles/tank).

The almighty profit? No one has ever purchased a Saturn vehicle in
order to make a profit, numbnuts.

People aren't stupid. Only bean counters that have no concern for a
sustainable future and who purchase a green Vue 'for profit' are
stupid. To that end, we agree.

Sir Creep

  #28  
Old July 20th 06, 06:13 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Sir Creep
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Posts: 8
Default VUE Green Line (was: load of crap)


BläBlä wrote:
> You know you can get the best frig'n Hybrid made on this planet and it
> wont save you a damn dime in the short or long run. That is the whole
> point of a hybrid aint it? To save money by not spending so much?
>
> Do not fall for the Hybrid Hype. Somewhere people got this fallacy that
> the point of the hybrid is to save gas and forgot the real point was to
> save MONEY.


Had I noticed that the original post was called 'oil independence', as
I stated in my earlier post, I'd have called you a real ****ing moron,
BlaBla. So let me digress...

As I said before, your selfish greedy 'point of the hybrid' premise is
incorrect. The fallacy is that you have a clue...
SC

 




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