Damn, I won't be buying GTR afterall

Tony Rickard wrote:
> "John Wallace" wrote:
>
>
>>...would you buy a CD for your cat where it had to...
>
>
> You spoil that animal...

Lennon's "Shaved Fish" and "Spilt Milk" (Jellyfish) are among it's
favourites...

Er...doh! "Car" - how could I mistype that on THIS newsgroup!?

> It's bad enough I'm assumed to be a pirate,

It's a very fair assumption. In surveys, more than 50% of gamers are
prepared to pirate games rather than buy them.

http://news.gamewinners.com/index.php/news/1134/

I'm getting tired of hearing 'Why should the honest people suffer?' Well, I
don't see how having Starforce on your system will make you suffer. Your PC
will take 0.1 seconds longer to boot up - shock and horror. This is nothing
compared to most applications.

> compounded by unnecessary software being installed on my PC, then not
> being told this is being done to MY property (PC and game).

Most software installs files that you're not aware of. GTR makes it very
clear that Starforce is installed in the license agreement and tells you how
to remove it 100%.

> They will be in Eastern Europe or India somewhere, being paid a fixed
> pittance by HugeSoftCorp Inc.

^^disgraceful ignorance not even worth commenting on...

Steve Simpson wrote:

>>It's bad enough I'm assumed to be a pirate,

> It's a very fair assumption. In surveys, more than 50% of gamers are
> prepared to pirate games rather than buy them.

It's not a fair assumption. Our society is founded upon innocent until
proven guilty. If a software company (or any other company) presumes to
turn that on it's head, hell mend them.

> I'm getting tired of hearing 'Why should the honest people suffer?' Well, I
> don't see how having Starforce on your system will make you suffer. Your PC
> will take 0.1 seconds longer to boot up - shock and horror. This is nothing
> compared to most applications.

You miss my point so often - your name MUST be Henman? :-)

I truly don't care about how little Starforce does, or that it loads
quickly, takes a zilionth of a CPU cycle to run or changes my tire when
I get a pinch flat. It shouldn't be there at all. It's not the
practicality of it, it's the reasoning.

For decades fair use has been enshrined in consumer law - now we are
saying "it's only a wee program, it makes no difference really". Except
that it stomps all over fair use and tucks the tattered remains into the
companies bank account.

Everyone knows this won't make any different to piracy. If it did I
might support it. If it stopped "professional" pirates churning
thousands of bootleg copies I may think twice, but I think the
presumption of innocence and the loss of consumer fair-use rights are a
FAR too much to concede just so two kiddies in Milwaukee will be stopped
from making a copy for each other.

I used to buy these and just download a no_cd crack for them or such
like, but that still doesn't make the point to those involved. So in the
case of HL2, even although the uber-anti-pirate "Steam" was cracked
before the game was in the shops, I just didn't buy it. I'd have liked
to, I enjoyed the original, but I truly despise such systems

Steve Simpson wrote:

> ^^disgraceful ignorance not even worth commenting on...

And yet you felt compelled to - lie on my couch and tell me why that is.
Did you have a good relationship with your parents...? :-)

Actually it's not, it's borne from personal experience of sim-developers.

So the disgraceful ignorance, in this case, would belong to yourself?

As someone who owns well in excess of 1000 paid for titles and
was a former programmer I won't be buying any games with Starforce.
I choose what is installed on my systems and their products won't be.
My loss? Maybe, but it will theirs as well.
They are entitled to install whatever they see fit but I as a consumer
will decide what is appropriate and what isn't.
As far as being too "tired of hearing". It reminds me of the old saying.
"Have you ever been at a party when you were too tired to listen and to
courteous to leave?"
Perhaps, you missed your calling as an marketing exec for the Amiga!
Sorry, for the sarcasm but some people just don't get it.

Pete

"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
...
>
> It's a very fair assumption. In surveys, more than 50% of gamers are
> prepared to pirate games rather than buy them.
>
> http://news.gamewinners.com/index.php/news/1134/
>
> I'm getting tired of hearing 'Why should the honest people suffer?' Well,
I
> don't see how having Starforce on your system will make you suffer. Your
PC
> will take 0.1 seconds longer to boot up - shock and horror. This is
nothing
> compared to most applications.
>
> Most software installs files that you're not aware of. GTR makes it very
> clear that Starforce is installed in the license agreement and tells you
how
> to remove it 100%.
>
>

> For decades fair use has been enshrined in consumer law - now we are
> saying "it's only a wee program, it makes no difference really". Except
> that it stomps all over fair use and tucks the tattered remains into the
> companies bank account.

You actually make a pretty good point here. I'm from Australia where we
have never had any 'fair use' laws. All duplication of copyright material
has always been illegal here. I guess if I had previously been allowed to
make working backups and this right was taken away from me I might be
slightly miffed.

That said, if I were a game developer, I'd demand that my products carried
Starforce as it causes maximum possible annoyance to pirates with minimum
possible annoyance to legit customers.

> And yet you felt compelled to - lie on my couch and tell me why that is.
> Did you have a good relationship with your parents...? :-)
>
> Actually it's not, it's borne from personal experience of sim-developers.
>
> So the disgraceful ignorance, in this case, would belong to yourself?

Simbin are basically members of this community who showed real talent in sim
modding and decided to make something of it. They chose a small and
relatively new publisher to publish their work. To have a swipe at Simbin
is to have a swipe at any of the members of this community who want to earn
a living somehow.

I read the other day that one of our ministers is actually pushing for some
fair right rules here in Australia. Seems funny that as the USA sinks into
the grips of the RIAA, MPAA, etc. we may be going the other way.

Yeah, ok - it's wishful thinking, but ...

--
Andre
----------------------------------------
"Steve Simpson" > wrote in message
...
> ...
> You actually make a pretty good point here. I'm from Australia where we
> have never had any 'fair use' laws. All duplication of copyright material
> has always been illegal here. I guess if I had previously been allowed to
> make working backups and this right was taken away from me I might be
> slightly miffed.
> ...

>I read the other day that one of our ministers is actually pushing for some
>fair right rules here in Australia. Seems funny that as the USA sinks into
>the grips of the RIAA, MPAA, etc. we may be going the other way.
>
> Yeah, ok - it's wishful thinking, but ...

I've read that the reason they're pushing for it is because we're going to
be getting a DMCA - basically the same as the USA. I really can't
understand why RIAA, ARIA etc have such influence on governments - it's not
like the DMCA is going to be a vote catcher.