Damn, I won't be buying GTR afterall

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:28:11 +1000, "Steve Simpson" >
wrote:

>So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
>widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
>saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?

Well...I bought a few CD's which are protected, and they refused to
play in my car cd player.....quite ironic that I had to download the
MP3's so I could burn a CD which would play in the car...and basically
I only listen to CD's in my car.


Cheers!


Remco

I am on the verge of claiming that you don't need to scrap something
that has no effect. Copy protection has no effect on the distribution of
illegal game copies and illegally ripped music. No effect. Except that
it makes life oh-so-difficult for the not-so-computer-savvy people.

The group of people who are likely not to pay for a game/sim are the
ones who would never bother to buy a program if that was the only
option, so where is the threat to the software house revenue? None,
whatsoever.

And yes, for a small, up-and-coming sim developer, with plenty of
integrity and ideals, the major way of getting anywhere is by spreading
their game widely. In many cases, developers have been able to create a
living out of piracy, so to speak, yes.

Internet is a gold mine for all those people who have ideas, creativity,
integrity and persistence, and THOSE are the threat to the software
house revenue, not the piracy.

People who run corporates have never understood the nature of internet
and regard it as a threat to revenue instead of regarding it as the
lands of opportunity.

---Asgeir---

Steve Simpson wrote:
> So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
> widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
> saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?
>
>

Remco Moedt wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 20:28:11 +1000, "Steve Simpson" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
>>widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
>>saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?
>
>
> Well...I bought a few CD's which are protected, and they refused to
> play in my car cd player.....quite ironic that I had to download the
> MP3's so I could burn a CD which would play in the car...and basically
> I only listen to CD's in my car.
>

You scoundrel !! ;>)

"Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
.uk...
> "Byron Forbes" wrote:
>
>> From my experience this is just like all the paranoia surrounding FILSCA
>> ie it's a load of crap - fear of the unknown. I've had GTR for over a
>> month. Had a few teething probs geting the game to install but this was
>> due to not having the lastest starforce drivers. No problems since.
>
> The innocent victim though is the non technical or new to PC user who
> wouldn't have a clue about downloading drivers. Not everyone will get past
> the teething troubles. If it doesn't install out of the box it doesn't
> work.
> The techies and the pirates won't find it a problem. PC compatibility
> issues
> are great enough without adding to them. A danger is a segment of the
> market
> will be driven to the simple to use consoles and that is where the major
> development will go.
>
>
>

I should add that this problem doesn't exist out of the box. Obviously
the old starforce drivers were on the original disc. I ran into problems as
the patches were installed - one of the newer patches was obviously done in
conjunction with the latest starforce drivers.

And what about the guys trying to earn a living from the game, don't they
deserve some consideration?

--
Andi.

Remove only one zero to reply


"Larry" > wrote in message
news:nEcQd.63455$jn.57082@lakeread06...
> To be honest, I don't care what the reasons are, just the effect on ME.
>
> Yes, that may be selfish, but I am the one paying out the hard earned
money
> so I believe I have a right to be selfish
>
> -Larry
>
> "Mitch_A" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Larry wrote:
> >
> >> If it doesn't stay within it's own domain (the game), and alters my
> >> system
> >> or adds background tasks, then I'll be skipping over it too.
> >>
> >> I purchased HL2 and I am VERY upset with how it works (Steam). I
haven't
> >> played it more than 15 min since I bought it.
> >>
> >> I want to sell it, but because of the draconian system that's involved
I
> >> don't even know if that's possible.
> >>
> >> -Larry
> >>
> >> "Chris Pound" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> Because they are putting Starforce protection drivers in it. Even the
> >>> freaking demo has Starforce in it. I didn't buy HL2 because of Steam
> >>> and I certainly won't buy anymore games with Starforce after buying
> >>> Toca2. I classify Starforce as a Trojan. Look it up.
> >
> > Honestly Larry I think your blaming the wrong crowd. Youre aiming at
the
> > "easy" tgt instead of the crooks whose fault this really is. We live in
> > an
> > era of "lowest common denominator" sadly and its only going to get worse
> > so
> > Id suggest hanging up the PC now before you give yourself a heart attack
> >
> >
> > Up till recently the internet has been the wild wild west of our
> > generation.
> > Do you think its now ok to go around shooting people at a poker table
now
> > as it was in 1880? Well thats how future generations will look back and
> > see this time period of the internet IMO. I could be wrong but history
> > sets a pretty good example.
> >
> > Mitch
> > --
> > Remove "nospam." to reply.
> > SuSE 9.2 Pro KDE 3.3.2a
>
>

I might see if the ol 3000 will boot... hasn't been plugged in since 98
thou :P




Uwe Schürkamp enlightened us with:
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:03:11 +0100, Ruud Dingemans wrote:
>>
>> Referring to Mehdi Ali, a name that will (and should) forever live
>> on in infamy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Do I win a prize..?
>>
>
> Pick up your beer when you're in the area ;-)
>
> Talking of the Deathbed Vigil video, does anyone have a digital copy?
> My old VCR is acting up and I have no means of converting analog video
> to digital formats.
>
> Cheers & WD,
>
> uwe

Very well put peter...



Peter enlightened us with:
> In article >,
> says...
>> In article >,
>> says...
>
> This leaves those who are somewhere in between. Those who, if the
> opportunity of free software were put before them, may well say yes.
> How many are in that number is too difficult to quantify, though I
> would imagine it is quite large. I know of many, many users who
> wouldn't think twice about the ramifications of someone giving them a
> free piece of software on cd. Who wouldn't even consider that they
> were doing anything illegal or dishonest. Ordinary citizens who
> wouldn't dare steal from the shopkeeper who's back was turned, but
> who wouldn't bat an eyelid at getting free software and taking it
> home and installing it.
>
> With those people in mind I would have to side with the copy
> protection schemes, no matter how irritating and frustrating for that
> smallish proportion of users who are against such things. If it
> means that copy protection may well prevent pirated software from
> become ubiquitous amongst the casual copier then it's not a bad
> thing. However, that doesn't mean we can't find something better in
> the future.

Steve Simpson wrote:
> Are you saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?

Copyright and copy protection are two different things.

Copyright protects the legal rights of an intellectual property holder.


Copy protection punishes honest people by forcing them to swap CDs
constantly, install funky drivers, validate through the Internet, use
hardware dongles, etc. -- while people who *steal* the software remain
blissfully unaware of all this, enjoying a far greater ease of use.
Whoever said crime doesn't pay never heard of Steam.

Them greedy SOB's (LOL)

I agree with you A.N. too many think quick killing is better than slow
moderate "milking" of the customers is usually better. hell look at
Winzip... what you figure the pay to use, vs the free user ratio is? all I
got (when not at my computer) is a nag screen to keep using it. I paid once
waaay back when like 4.x dayz...


Asgeir Nesoen enlightened us with:
> I am on the verge of claiming that you don't need to scrap something
> that has no effect. Copy protection has no effect on the distribution
> of illegal game copies and illegally ripped music. No effect. Except
> that it makes life oh-so-difficult for the not-so-computer-savvy
> people.
> The group of people who are likely not to pay for a game/sim are the
> ones who would never bother to buy a program if that was the only
> option, so where is the threat to the software house revenue? None,
> whatsoever.
>
> And yes, for a small, up-and-coming sim developer, with plenty of
> integrity and ideals, the major way of getting anywhere is by
> spreading their game widely. In many cases, developers have been able
> to create a living out of piracy, so to speak, yes.
>
> Internet is a gold mine for all those people who have ideas,
> creativity, integrity and persistence, and THOSE are the threat to
> the software house revenue, not the piracy.
>
> People who run corporates have never understood the nature of internet
> and regard it as a threat to revenue instead of regarding it as the
> lands of opportunity.
>
> ---Asgeir---
>
> Steve Simpson wrote:
>> So you're saying that games/music need to pirated in order to become
>> widespread and succeed. Isn't that the idea of demos/radio play? Are you
>> saying that the entire copyright system should be scrapped?

"Remco Moedt" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:35:47 +1100, "Byron Forbes"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Remco Moedt" > wrote in message
...
>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 06:36:24 GMT, Todd Walker >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>So what should the developers do?
>>>
>>> Whatever they do, at least don't use something which will sabotage
>>> other present programs, like Nero. I also remember I tried to update
>>> my legal copy of Operation Flashpoint, which didn't work. The reason
>>> was that the update installer found a CD writer on my PC, and just
>>> stopped updating OF without any message....
>>>
>>
>> So what are you saying Remco, that this starforce stuff can interfere
>>with CD/DVD drives and their software?
>
> Yes. I had to remove the demo since I couldn't use Nero anymore. Seems
> like Starforce is doing something when software is installed which can
> create virtual drives.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> Remco
>

I've got GTR installed (German import) with starforce doing what ever it
does,
I also have Nero 6 & Alcohol 120% v1.9.2 both installed & a DVD-RW drive.
I've have had zero problems or conflicts.

One thing that may have a bearing is that I don't have Nero or Alcohol
running when playing GTR, that includes the Nero check thingy that is put in
the run section of the registry on install (WTF is that for BTW).