Using VIN Numbers to Obtain Duplicate Keys

Netlore Archive: Email flier warns automobile owners to cover the VIN # on
their dashboard with tape to prevent car thieves from writing it down and
using it to obtain duplicate keys from a dealership
Description: Email flier
Circulating since: Feb. 2003
Status: Overblown


Variant #1:
Email example contributed by Cathy, 21 February 2003:

Subject: Car theft

Just heard this on the news here locally. Apparently car thieves have
yet again found a way around the system and steal your car or truck without
any effort at all.

The car thieves peer through the windshield of your car or truck,
write down the VIN number from the label on the dash, go into the local
dealership for that car brand and request a duplicate key for it from the
VIN number. Car dealerships make up a duplicate key from the VIN number,
collect payment from the 'customer' who's really a would-be car thief for
making up the duplicate key -- the car thief goes back to your vehicle,
inserts the key they've just gotten and off they drive with your car or
truck.

They don't have to break in, don't have to damage the vehicle and draw
no attention to themselves as all they have to do is to walk up to your car,
insert the key and off they go to their chop shop with your vehicle!!! Can
you believe it?

To avoid this from happening to you, simply put opaque tape (like a
strip of electrical tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN label
located on the dash board. You can't remove the VIN number legally under
most state laws, so cover it so that it can't be viewed through the
windshield by a car thief. Anyway, feel free to forward this on before some
other car thief steals another car or truck like this.

Unbelievable!




Variant #2:
Email example contributed by Ross P., 20 January 2005:

Subject: Hide your VIN number

What else will thieves think of??

Seems that car thieves have found yet another way to steal your car or
truck without any effort at all. The car thieves peer through the windshield
of your car or truck, write down the VIN # from the label on the dash, go to
the local car dealership and request a duplicate key based on the VIN #. I
didn't believe this e-mail, so I called a friend at Chrysler Dodge and
pretended I had lost my keys. They told me to just bring in the VIN #, and
they would cut me one on the spot, and I could order the keyless device if I
wanted. The Car Dealer's Parts Department will make a duplicate key from the
VIN #, and collect payment from the thief who will return to your car. He
doesn't have to break in, do any damage to the vehicle, or draw attention to
himself. All he has to do is walk up to your car, insert the key and off he
goes to a local Chop Shop with your vehicle. You don't believe it? It IS
that easy.

To avoid this from happening to you, simply put some tape (electrical
tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN Metal Label located on the
dash board. By law, you cannot remove the VIN, but you can cover it so it
can't be viewed through the windshield by a car thief.

I urge you to forward this to your friends before some other car thief
steals another car or truck.



Comments: While there has been at least one well-publicized case (in 2002)
of an auto theft ring using a ploy similar to the above to steal vehicles
from used car lots, it is a complicated and time-consuming modus operandi
and not the most likely way a thief might try to steal your car.

Still, the method can work, as proven in an experiment conducted by WTAE-TV
News in Pittsburgh:

After getting permission from the owners, we jotted down VIN numbers from
four different vehicles. Then, we went to four diffrerent car dealerships
with a hidden camera. We told the same kind of story that a thief might
tell: we locked the key in the car and needed a new one.
First, we went to a dealership and tried to get a key made for a 2003
Blazer. It couldn't have been any easier.

Next, we walked into another dealership with a phony story. Half an hour
later, we had a key that got us into -- and away with -- the car. The key
cost $2 and we paid cash. No one asked for identification.

Three out of the four car dealers struck duplicate keys with no questions
asked, the reporters found, even though most dealerships have a policy of
demanding identification before doing so. A different investigation
conducted by the Sacramento Bee in 2003 found that car dealers were not only
aware of the scam but in some cases believed they had actually foiled
attempts to illegally obtain keys by insisting on proper documentation from
the perpetrators.
Covering the dashboard VIN # is an option for vehicle owners concerned that
they may be victimized in this manner, but, since some states prohibit it,
checking local laws is advisable first.

Having worked for a new/resale person, and taking cars to dealer to have 2nd set
made when 1st was not with the car, I reputable dealer will only make a key if
he sees the car and ownership papers. If this is being done, then someone
should find out what dealer is doing this and reporting him to the police and to
the dealers top level company. Most likely place where this could be happening
is a shady key shop. They have to have a very sophisticated machine to do the
key duplication and the machine is in the extremely high price range. It takes
a lot of keys made to ever pay for the machine, so there is a reason for the
shop to cheat if he gets enough money from the person requesting the keys.





On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:32:06 -0400, "rob" > wrote:

>>Netlore Archive: Email flier warns automobile owners to cover the VIN # on
>>their dashboard with tape to prevent car thieves from writing it down and
>>using it to obtain duplicate keys from a dealership
>>Description: Email flier
>>Circulating since: Feb. 2003
>>Status: Overblown
>>
>>
>>Variant #1:
>>Email example contributed by Cathy, 21 February 2003:
>>
>> Subject: Car theft
>>
>> Just heard this on the news here locally. Apparently car thieves have
>>yet again found a way around the system and steal your car or truck without
>>any effort at all.
>>
>> The car thieves peer through the windshield of your car or truck,
>>write down the VIN number from the label on the dash, go into the local
>>dealership for that car brand and request a duplicate key for it from the
>>VIN number. Car dealerships make up a duplicate key from the VIN number,
>>collect payment from the 'customer' who's really a would-be car thief for
>>making up the duplicate key -- the car thief goes back to your vehicle,
>>inserts the key they've just gotten and off they drive with your car or
>>truck.
>>
>> They don't have to break in, don't have to damage the vehicle and draw
>>no attention to themselves as all they have to do is to walk up to your car,
>>insert the key and off they go to their chop shop with your vehicle!!! Can
>>you believe it?
>>
>> To avoid this from happening to you, simply put opaque tape (like a
>>strip of electrical tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN label
>>located on the dash board. You can't remove the VIN number legally under
>>most state laws, so cover it so that it can't be viewed through the
>>windshield by a car thief. Anyway, feel free to forward this on before some
>>other car thief steals another car or truck like this.
>>
>> Unbelievable!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Variant #2:
>>Email example contributed by Ross P., 20 January 2005:
>>
>> Subject: Hide your VIN number
>>
>> What else will thieves think of??
>>
>> Seems that car thieves have found yet another way to steal your car or
>>truck without any effort at all. The car thieves peer through the windshield
>>of your car or truck, write down the VIN # from the label on the dash, go to
>>the local car dealership and request a duplicate key based on the VIN #. I
>>didn't believe this e-mail, so I called a friend at Chrysler Dodge and
>>pretended I had lost my keys. They told me to just bring in the VIN #, and
>>they would cut me one on the spot, and I could order the keyless device if I
>>wanted. The Car Dealer's Parts Department will make a duplicate key from the
>>VIN #, and collect payment from the thief who will return to your car. He
>>doesn't have to break in, do any damage to the vehicle, or draw attention to
>>himself. All he has to do is walk up to your car, insert the key and off he
>>goes to a local Chop Shop with your vehicle. You don't believe it? It IS
>>that easy.
>>
>> To avoid this from happening to you, simply put some tape (electrical
>>tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN Metal Label located on the
>>dash board. By law, you cannot remove the VIN, but you can cover it so it
>>can't be viewed through the windshield by a car thief.
>>
>> I urge you to forward this to your friends before some other car thief
>>steals another car or truck.
>>
>>
>>
>>Comments: While there has been at least one well-publicized case (in 2002)
>>of an auto theft ring using a ploy similar to the above to steal vehicles
>>from used car lots, it is a complicated and time-consuming modus operandi
>>and not the most likely way a thief might try to steal your car.
>>
>>Still, the method can work, as proven in an experiment conducted by WTAE-TV
>>News in Pittsburgh:
>>
>> After getting permission from the owners, we jotted down VIN numbers from
>>four different vehicles. Then, we went to four diffrerent car dealerships
>>with a hidden camera. We told the same kind of story that a thief might
>>tell: we locked the key in the car and needed a new one.
>> First, we went to a dealership and tried to get a key made for a 2003
>>Blazer. It couldn't have been any easier.
>>
>> Next, we walked into another dealership with a phony story. Half an hour
>>later, we had a key that got us into -- and away with -- the car. The key
>>cost $2 and we paid cash. No one asked for identification.
>>
>>Three out of the four car dealers struck duplicate keys with no questions
>>asked, the reporters found, even though most dealerships have a policy of
>>demanding identification before doing so. A different investigation
>>conducted by the Sacramento Bee in 2003 found that car dealers were not only
>>aware of the scam but in some cases believed they had actually foiled
>>attempts to illegally obtain keys by insisting on proper documentation from
>>the perpetrators.
>>Covering the dashboard VIN # is an option for vehicle owners concerned that
>>they may be victimized in this manner, but, since some states prohibit it,
>>checking local laws is advisable first.
>>

Doby added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

> Having worked for a new/resale person, and taking cars to
> dealer to have 2nd set made when 1st was not with the car, I
> reputable dealer will only make a key if he sees the car and
> ownership papers. If this is being done, then someone should
> find out what dealer is doing this and reporting him to the
> police and to the dealers top level company. Most likely
> place where this could be happening is a shady key shop. They
> have to have a very sophisticated machine to do the key
> duplication and the machine is in the extremely high price
> range. It takes a lot of keys made to ever pay for the
> machine, so there is a reason for the shop to cheat if he gets
> enough money from the person requesting the keys.
>
Just getting a duplicate key won't work on late model cars as the
anti-theft signature in the key fob won't be correct. Yes, that
should go along if the key is cut from the VIN but the way the
key is programmed requires at least one working key so the scan
most likely work. And, small shops aren't likely to have the
expensive OBD II computers to hook up to the car's diagnostic
port to program the key even if a working 2nd key isn't
available. Of course, even with OBD II, you'd still need the real
car to be there.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Don't be a fop or a blooter, make only pithy comments on Usenet

rob added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

> Netlore Archive: Email flier warns automobile owners to cover
> the VIN # on their dashboard with tape to prevent car thieves
> from writing it down and using it to obtain duplicate keys
> from a dealership Description: Email flier
> Circulating since: Feb. 2003
> Status: Overblown
>
More idiodic babble coming out of Kolorado Koolaide Robbie Boi. See
my other reply but you should be smart enough to know that this is
total nonsense.

In Chrysler's case, the SKIM anti-theft system hides the
encrption/decryption computer module in a different place
throughout the year besides the one that is obvious. This is to
make it very difficult for a thief to install their own to get
around the fact that a key must have the correct signature or the
car simply won't start.

Sounds like yet another loon's urban legend from someone that know
zip about modern cars.

> Variant #1:
> Email example contributed by Cathy, 21 February 2003:
>
> Subject: Car theft
>
> Just heard this on the news here locally. Apparently car
> thieves have
> yet again found a way around the system and steal your car or
> truck without any effort at all.
>
> The car thieves peer through the windshield of your car
> or truck,
> write down the VIN number from the label on the dash, go into
> the local dealership for that car brand and request a
> duplicate key for it from the VIN number. Car dealerships make
> up a duplicate key from the VIN number, collect payment from
> the 'customer' who's really a would-be car thief for making up
> the duplicate key -- the car thief goes back to your vehicle,
> inserts the key they've just gotten and off they drive with
> your car or truck.
>
> They don't have to break in, don't have to damage the
> vehicle and draw
> no attention to themselves as all they have to do is to walk
> up to your car, insert the key and off they go to their chop
> shop with your vehicle!!! Can you believe it?
>
> To avoid this from happening to you, simply put opaque
> tape (like a
> strip of electrical tape, duct tape or medical tape) across
> the VIN label located on the dash board. You can't remove the
> VIN number legally under most state laws, so cover it so that
> it can't be viewed through the windshield by a car thief.
> Anyway, feel free to forward this on before some other car
> thief steals another car or truck like this.
>
> Unbelievable!
>
Do you really think that a piece of tape is a deterrent? And, how
do you get around both state and Federal law that requires that the
VIN plate on the I/P be visible at all times?
>
>
> Variant #2:
> Email example contributed by Ross P., 20 January 2005:
>
> Subject: Hide your VIN number
>
> What else will thieves think of??
>
> Seems that car thieves have found yet another way to
> steal your car or
> truck without any effort at all. The car thieves peer through
> the windshield of your car or truck, write down the VIN # from
> the label on the dash, go to the local car dealership and
> request a duplicate key based on the VIN #. I didn't believe
> this e-mail, so I called a friend at Chrysler Dodge and
> pretended I had lost my keys. They told me to just bring in
> the VIN #, and they would cut me one on the spot, and I could
> order the keyless device if I wanted. The Car Dealer's Parts
> Department will make a duplicate key from the VIN #, and
> collect payment from the thief who will return to your car. He
> doesn't have to break in, do any damage to the vehicle, or
> draw attention to himself. All he has to do is walk up to your
> car, insert the key and off he goes to a local Chop Shop with
> your vehicle. You don't believe it? It IS that easy.
>
> To avoid this from happening to you, simply put some
> tape (electrical
> tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN Metal Label
> located on the dash board. By law, you cannot remove the VIN,
> but you can cover it so it can't be viewed through the
> windshield by a car thief.
>
> I urge you to forward this to your friends before some
> other car thief
> steals another car or truck.
>
>
>
> Comments: While there has been at least one well-publicized
> case (in 2002) of an auto theft ring using a ploy similar to
> the above to steal vehicles from used car lots, it is a
> complicated and time-consuming modus operandi and not the most
> likely way a thief might try to steal your car.
>
> Still, the method can work, as proven in an experiment
> conducted by WTAE-TV News in Pittsburgh:
>
> After getting permission from the owners, we jotted down VIN
> numbers from
> four different vehicles. Then, we went to four diffrerent car
> dealerships with a hidden camera. We told the same kind of
> story that a thief might tell: we locked the key in the car
> and needed a new one.
> First, we went to a dealership and tried to get a key made
> for a 2003
> Blazer. It couldn't have been any easier.
>
> Next, we walked into another dealership with a phony story.
> Half an hour
> later, we had a key that got us into -- and away with -- the
> car. The key cost $2 and we paid cash. No one asked for
> identification.
>
> Three out of the four car dealers struck duplicate keys with
> no questions asked, the reporters found, even though most
> dealerships have a policy of demanding identification before
> doing so. A different investigation conducted by the
> Sacramento Bee in 2003 found that car dealers were not only
> aware of the scam but in some cases believed they had actually
> foiled attempts to illegally obtain keys by insisting on
> proper documentation from the perpetrators.
> Covering the dashboard VIN # is an option for vehicle owners
> concerned that they may be victimized in this manner, but,
> since some states prohibit it, checking local laws is
> advisable first.
>
>
>



--
HP, aka Jerry

Don't be a fop or a blooter, make only pithy comments on Usenet

HEMI-Powered wrote:

> rob added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>
> > Netlore Archive: Email flier warns automobile owners to cover
> > the VIN # on their dashboard with tape to prevent car thieves
> > from writing it down and using it to obtain duplicate keys
> > from a dealership Description: Email flier
> > Circulating since: Feb. 2003
> > Status: Overblown
> >
> More idiodic babble coming out of Kolorado Koolaide Robbie Boi. See
> my other reply but you should be smart enough to know that this is
> total nonsense.
>
> In Chrysler's case, the SKIM anti-theft system hides the
> encrption/decryption computer module in a different place
> throughout the year besides the one that is obvious. This is to
> make it very difficult for a thief to install their own to get
> around the fact that a key must have the correct signature or the
> car simply won't start.
>
> Sounds like yet another loon's urban legend from someone that know
> zip about modern cars.
>

Don't know about the urban legend stuff. I do know about a year or so
ago GM sent out a directive to all dealers parts departments telling
them that they must have positive proof of ownership before they can
make a key for someone now. They've gotta have two positive IDs and the
vehicles registration. They have to make photo copies of all of it and
all information has to match or they are not supposed to make a keys. I
assume it's because people were actually getting keys made to steal cars
with. Personally I never thought GM made a late model car worth stealing
except maybe the Corvette.

GM's Passkey system can be reprogrammed by going through a series of on
and off cycles of the ignition switch no scanner needed. I don't know
about the others because GM cars are the only one's we've ever had
problems with. Go figure.



nobody #1

nobody #1 added these comments in the current discussion du jour
....

>> More idiodic babble coming out of Kolorado Koolaide Robbie
>> Boi. See my other reply but you should be smart enough to
>> know that this is total nonsense.
>>
>> In Chrysler's case, the SKIM anti-theft system hides the
>> encrption/decryption computer module in a different place
>> throughout the year besides the one that is obvious. This is
>> to make it very difficult for a thief to install their own to
>> get around the fact that a key must have the correct
>> signature or the car simply won't start.
>>
>> Sounds like yet another loon's urban legend from someone that
>> know zip about modern cars.
>
> Don't know about the urban legend stuff. I do know about a
> year or so
> ago GM sent out a directive to all dealers parts departments
> telling them that they must have positive proof of ownership
> before they can make a key for someone now. They've gotta have
> two positive IDs and the vehicles registration. They have to
> make photo copies of all of it and all information has to
> match or they are not supposed to make a keys. I assume it's
> because people were actually getting keys made to steal cars
> with. Personally I never thought GM made a late model car
> worth stealing except maybe the Corvette.

I would believe this, and it exactly supports my assertion that a
would be thief is just not going to be able to get a key cut that
also correctly tells the anti-theft computer it is legit. Take
the 2009 Dodge Challenger as another example. There is NO key at
all, just a start button on the lower I/S. The entire sequence of
verifying a proper owner/driver takes place with the "key" in the
driver's pocket.

Your statement also confirms my assertion that a dealer wants to
see the car, see another working key, and I'm not surprised they
would want a photo ID. They can then check their registration
computer to see if the VIN is actually owned or leased by the
person wanting a new key.

I won't comment on the desirability of stealing a GM or any brand
car, that's entirely a matter of customer choice.

> GM's Passkey system can be reprogrammed by going through a
> series of on
> and off cycles of the ignition switch no scanner needed. I
> don't know about the others because GM cars are the only one's
> we've ever had problems with. Go figure.
>
This is also true, BUT, it requires that a working key be in the
vehicle and various button pushes of the lock and unlock buttons
coincide with the on-off cycling. This does two things: it
verifies that a legitimate owner key does exist and also programs
the new key to operate the more mundane keyless entry system of
the car without setting off the security alarm.

I called this an urban legend because a presumed small fry, shady
key shop would hardly take the precautions necessary nor would
they have access to the OBD II system to create a working key if
neither original were available. But, all of this is academic if
it is a thief trying to get a key, right, as they hardly have the
car - yet.

Now, with something like 150,000,000 cars on the road, maybe half
or more with some sort of theft protection built into the key/key
fob, one or two cases of what amounts to be stolen identity is
remotely possible if the moon, planets and stars align themselves
in the thief's favor. But, I hardly think that 75,000,000 owners
need cover theri VIN plate with tape. Besides which, a skilled
thief can get inside the car within seconds and look for the VIN
in the several places it exists such as the door jamb and on the
wheel well under the hood.

The twits that post nonsense like this only prove they're zeroes
when it comes to even remotely understanding automotive
technology and it also confirms that the media is about as
informed as Sen. Obama who says that inflating one's tires and
getting a tune-up would have the same effect as all the off-shore
oil drilling possible. First, about all cars built in the last 20
+ years can easily go 100,000 miles without a tuneup as they must
be designed for this in order to pass emissions checks for that
long. And, since Jan 1, 2006, all cars have a low air warning
system, although those typically allow for the pressure to drop
from 20-40% before the light comes on. I recently saw a list of 8
things purported to be good for improving gas mileage. Of those
8, only one was even remotely valid. Again, this is why I said
this whole thing is an urban legend promoted by stupid and
ignorant reporters.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Don't be a fop or a blooter, make only pithy comments on Usenet