what's better about higher priced rotors?

so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:

* $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
* $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
* $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
and supplied in noise dampening iron)
* $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
(obviously dedicated left and right side)
* $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).

and there are a few others scattered in-between.

so what am i getting "extra", say, between the $48 unit and $19.50
unit
from Raybestos ??? it would seem "smart" to go with the $19 unit and
change the rotors out every time it's time to change the pads (?).

regards, michael

In article .com>, LinuxTester wrote:
> so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
> which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:

> * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
> * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
> * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
> and supplied in noise dampening iron)
> * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
> (obviously dedicated left and right side)
> * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
> LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
>
> and there are a few others scattered in-between.
>
> so what am i getting "extra", say, between the $48 unit and $19.50
> unit
> from Raybestos ??? it would seem "smart" to go with the $19 unit and
> change the rotors out every time it's time to change the pads (?).

Tolerances, material, and where they are made.

My guess is the $19 rotors are made-in-china with questionable grade
steel and wider tolerances.

Brent P wrote:
>
> In article .com>, LinuxTester wrote:
> > so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
> > which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:
>
> > * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
> > * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
> > * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
> > and supplied in noise dampening iron)
> > * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
> > (obviously dedicated left and right side)
> > * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
> > LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
> >
> > and there are a few others scattered in-between.
> >
> > so what am i getting "extra", say, between the $48 unit and $19.50
> > unit
> > from Raybestos ??? it would seem "smart" to go with the $19 unit and
> > change the rotors out every time it's time to change the pads (?).
>
> Tolerances, material, and where they are made.
>
> My guess is the $19 rotors are made-in-china with questionable grade
> steel and wider tolerances.

Actually, that is somewhere between completely wrong and partially
wrong. None of the discs are likely to be made of steel. If they were
they would cost more and steel performs poorly at the temperatures that
brake disc normally need to perform compared to iron.
The difference between the $19 dollar discs and $48 may be similar to
the difference between low sodium and regular foods at the super market
where they charge double for not adding salt. They charge what they
calculate people are willing to pay. The $48 ones are billed as "noise
dampening iron" which pretty much guarantees that they are less wear
resistant than the $19 dollar ones.
I would expect that if asked the wholesale supplier would reveal that
they sell mostly the $19 ones and mostly what you are getting with the
more expensive brands is the extra cost of sitting on the shelf longer.

-jim

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LinuxTester wrote:
> so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
> which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:
>
> * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
> * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
> * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
> and supplied in noise dampening iron)
> * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
> (obviously dedicated left and right side)
> * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
> LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
>
> and there are a few others scattered in-between.
>
> so what am i getting "extra", say, between the $48 unit and $19.50
> unit
> from Raybestos ??? it would seem "smart" to go with the $19 unit and
> change the rotors out every time it's time to change the pads (?).
>
> regards, michael
>


I always go for the cheapest ones I can get and never have issues with
them like the warping the expensive ones seem to have happen all the
time. I only need to replace them if I messed up and missed changing a
brake pad soon enough or I break something off road.

I have been going this route since the 70's....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

In article >, jim wrote:
> Brent P wrote:

>> My guess is the $19 rotors are made-in-china with questionable grade
>> steel and wider tolerances.

> Actually, that is somewhere between completely wrong and partially
> wrong. None of the discs are likely to be made of steel. If they were
> they would cost more and steel performs poorly at the temperatures that
> brake disc normally need to perform compared to iron.
> The difference between the $19 dollar discs and $48 may be similar to
> the difference between low sodium and regular foods at the super market
> where they charge double for not adding salt. They charge what they
> calculate people are willing to pay. The $48 ones are billed as "noise
> dampening iron" which pretty much guarantees that they are less wear
> resistant than the $19 dollar ones.
> I would expect that if asked the wholesale supplier would reveal that
> they sell mostly the $19 ones and mostly what you are getting with the
> more expensive brands is the extra cost of sitting on the shelf longer.

Yes, I brain farted and typed the wrong word. However the meaning is
obvious, the material from china is of questionable quality. Of course
this being rec.autos.tech.....

Anyway, a questionable grade of grey cast iron. (not just iron, as iron
is an element) There are different grades and it does matter. Processing
and percentage of various other elements in addition to iron change
hardness and other properties.

Cost is proportional to labor, the process controls on the material, the
casting process, and the machining process.

With a supplier in china the major challenges are keeping processing
constant and avoiding unauthorized material substitutions and
contamination. Sure, it's less important if the Si content of
the brake rotor material is off vs. having something in the pet food that
kills your dog, but from a manufacturing POV it's the same sort of issue.

BTW, this being rec.autos.tech, there are grades of steel that can hold
up to the temperature (as we are talking what, less than 600 degrees C?),
but there are other issues like cost.

LinuxTester wrote:
> so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
> which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:
>
> * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
> * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
> * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
> and supplied in noise dampening iron)
> * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
> (obviously dedicated left and right side)
> * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
> LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
>
> and there are a few others scattered in-between.
>
> so what am i getting "extra", say, between the $48 unit and $19.50
> unit
> from Raybestos ??? it would seem "smart" to go with the $19 unit and
> change the rotors out every time it's time to change the pads (?).
>
> regards, michael
>


It depends on the rotor. Some of the cheap ones are just fine. Others
are made from questionable iron mixes and will have hard and soft spots
across the surface depending on the mix. Hard to see just looking at them.

The better ones are usually from places that actually test the iron and
alloy it to the correct specs and then make the parts. They are usually
much more uniform in quality between batches of parts as a result.

The unidirectional types are cast from good iron AND the vent ribs are
cast in a curved pattern that makes them more effective when rotated the
correct direction. The lower end ones have straight ribs which will work
but just like most parts they can be improved.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

jim wrote:
> The difference between the $19 dollar discs and $48 may be similar to
> the difference between low sodium and regular foods at the super market
> where they charge double for not adding salt. They charge what they
> calculate people are willing to pay. The $48 ones are billed as "noise
> dampening iron" which pretty much guarantees that they are less wear
> resistant than the $19 dollar ones.

For my cars, rotors not made in China are at least four times as expensive
as those that are. Harder than hell to find, too. Only manufacturers I can
identify are Bendix and BG.

On Jun 17, 10:58 am, LinuxTester > wrote:
> so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
> which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:
>
> * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
> * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
> * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
> and supplied in noise dampening iron)
> * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
> (obviously dedicated left and right side)
> * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
> LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
>
> and there are a few others scattered in-between.

Joel Spolsky wrote a nice little article about this. It's not about
brake rotors but about software pricing. But the principles apply
anyway:

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...erDuckies.html

In a nutshell, you make more money if you offer the same product at
different prices. If you only offer it at one price, you miss out on
making a greater profit from those who are willing to pay more, and
don't sell at all to those who are only willing to pay less.

If all you have to offer are $48 rotors, the guy who won't pay a cent
over $19 will go somewhere else, and the guy who would otherwise shell
out more than a hundred bucks will just give you $48 (or maybe even go
somewhere else also, if he's convinced he must pay more than 100 bucks
for rotors!)

The market, quite simply, not only demands a product, but demands a
pricing variety in that product. To meet that demand, you have to
create pricing variety even where there isn't any underlying
comparable variety in value.

Kaz Kylheku wrote:
> On Jun 17, 10:58 am, LinuxTester > wrote:
>> so i'm checking out prices for front rotors (1995 Z-28),
>> which range in price (at rockauto.com) from:
>>
>> * $19.50 USD RAYBESTOS {Professional Grade, vented)
>> * $45.00 USD WAGNER (no details)
>> * $48.00 USD RAYBESTOS (vented, originally equipped
>> and supplied in noise dampening iron)
>> * $87.00 USD RAYBESTOS {Brute Stop} Front;Left
>> (obviously dedicated left and right side)
>> * $110.00 USD ACDELCO FRT DURASTOP PERFORMANCE
>> LEFT HAND (also dedicated left / right side).
>>
>> and there are a few others scattered in-between.
>
> Joel Spolsky wrote a nice little article about this. It's not about
> brake rotors but about software pricing. But the principles apply
> anyway:
>
> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articl...erDuckies.html
>
> In a nutshell, you make more money if you offer the same product at
> different prices. If you only offer it at one price, you miss out on
> making a greater profit from those who are willing to pay more, and
> don't sell at all to those who are only willing to pay less.
>


I think the issue here isn't the fact it's the same product at multiple
prices, but there are multiple products and multiple prices for the same
application.

We don't know if the $19 rotors are half cast iron, half ground up
rocks... or are the $99 rotors in a different box. The $110 rotors are
the best quality, or maybe $50 rotors with a crazy markup.

It's also hard to evaluate a brake rotor in a parts store.

Frankly, for my cars, I'll usually buy either the cheap parts and
acknowledge the fact that it won't last as long, or if I need heavy duty
or good quality parts I stick with certain brand names and don't worry
about the price.

Examples -> tires.... either the cheapest possible, or BFG.
balljoints - the cheap ones last about 4-5 years in a street car, or 4-5
races in my race car. I buy cheap ones for the street, nothing but Moog
for the race car.

Ray

"Ray" > wrote in message
...

> It's also hard to evaluate a brake rotor in a parts store.
>
> Frankly, for my cars, I'll usually buy either the cheap parts and
> acknowledge the fact that it won't last as long, or if I need heavy duty
> or good quality parts I stick with certain brand names and don't worry
> about the price.
>
> Examples -> tires.... either the cheapest possible, or BFG.
> balljoints - the cheap ones last about 4-5 years in a street car, or 4-5
> races in my race car. I buy cheap ones for the street, nothing but Moog
> for the race car.
>
> Ray

It is impossible to evaluate a rotor in a parts store. We would HOPE
(but I wouldnt bet on it) that there are agencies which quality approve
this sort of part to keep dangerous materials or processes from coming
into our market.

I learned my lesson years ago on cheap tires. There might be cheap tires
that are good, but the tires I am pretty sure are good all cost money. And
I am willing to pay for quality in this arena.