Told ya....

When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.

http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25

It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants
for examples... <g>


--



"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." --
Albert Einstein.

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.ae911truth.org

"Henry" > wrote in message
...
>
> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
> said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25
>
> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
> incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.

But you have to remember that the US drivers have TWO pedals to choose from,
unlike us over here where we have (usually) three, so there's bound to be
confusion :-)

--
Beav

On Jul 14, 7:22*pm, Evan Platt >
wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:16:37 +0100, "Beav"
>
> > wrote:
> >But you have to remember that the US drivers have TWO pedals to choose from,
> >unlike us over here where we have (usually) three, so there's bound to be
> >confusion *:-)
>
> Three pedals? No way. We have non of those in the USA.
> (Sarcasm Off)
> --
> To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
________________
He's referring to the CLUTCH in a manual transmission car. Know what
a manual is??

-CC
"Not proud to be an American"

ChrisCoaster wrote:
> On Jul 14, 7:22 pm, Evan Platt >
> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 00:16:37 +0100, "Beav"
>>
>> > wrote:
>>> But you have to remember that the US drivers have TWO pedals to choose from,
>>> unlike us over here where we have (usually) three, so there's bound to be
>>> confusion :-)
>> Three pedals? No way. We have non of those in the USA.
>> (Sarcasm Off)
>> --
>> To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.
> ________________
> He's referring to the CLUTCH in a manual transmission car. Know what
> a manual is??
>
> -CC
> "Not proud to be an American"
What's instructions on changing bulbs and oil got to do with it?

Beav wrote:
> "Henry" wrote...
>>
>> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I said it
>> was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25
>>
>> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
>> incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
>
> But you have to remember that the US drivers have TWO pedals to
> choose from, unlike us over here where we have (usually) three, so
> there's bound to be confusion :-)

My motorcycle has sudden acceleration problems, but it is exhiliarating!
;-)

--
HPT

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:16 -0400, Henry >
wrote:

>
> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
>said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25
>
> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
>incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
>Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants
>for examples... <g>

That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of the
problem then other makes.

An alternative explanation is that the same electronic problem that is
causing the sudden acceleration is also sending the wrong signals to
the black box. All it would take is for the computer to miss
interpret the "brakes are on" signal for "full throttle" and the car
and black box both get signals for "no brake - full throttle".

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:16 -0400, Henry >
> wrote:

>> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
>> said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.

>> http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25

>> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
>> incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
>> Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants
>> for examples... <g>

> That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of the
> problem then other makes.

Many other makes have been suspected of having the "problem",
too. If someone can't figure out that they should put the shifter
in neutral I can easily see them stepping on the wrong pedal.

> An alternative explanation is that the same electronic problem that is
> causing the sudden acceleration is also sending the wrong signals to
> the black box. All it would take is for the computer to miss
> interpret the "brakes are on" signal for "full throttle" and the car
> and black box both get signals for "no brake - full throttle".

The "problem" can't be repeated, no evidence of electronic failures
have been found, and video cameras have shown no brakes lights on.
This "problem" has been attributed to driver in error many cases over
the years.



--



"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." --
Albert Einstein.

http://911research.wtc7.net
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.ae911truth.org

On Jul 15, 6:03*am, Henry > wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:16 -0400, Henry >
> > wrote:
> >> *When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
> >> said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.
> >>http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25
> >> *It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
> >> incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
> >> Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants
> >> for examples... <g>
> > That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of the
> > problem then other makes.
>
> * Many other makes have been suspected of having the "problem",
> too. If someone can't figure out that they should put the shifter
> in neutral I can easily see them stepping on the wrong pedal.
>
> > An alternative explanation is that the same electronic problem that is
> > causing the sudden acceleration is also sending the wrong signals to
> > the black box. *All it would take is for the computer to miss
> > interpret the "brakes are on" signal for "full throttle" and the car
> > and black box both get signals for "no brake - full throttle".
>
> * The "problem" can't be repeated, no evidence of electronic failures
> have been found, and video cameras have shown no brakes lights on.
> This "problem" has been attributed to driver in error many cases over
> the years.
>
> --
>
> * "Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." --
> Albert Einstein.
>
> * *http://911research.wtc7.net
> * *http://www.journalof911studies.com/
> * *http://www.ae911truth.org

Buot there is at least one case where the driver fought the car all
the way back to the dealer with the problem still present and parked
it with smoking brakes IIANM..

Harry K

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:41:29 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:16 -0400, Henry >
wrote:

>> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I said it
>>was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.

>>http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25

> That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of
> the problem then other makes.

> An alternative explanation is that the same electronic problem that
> is causing the sudden acceleration is also sending the wrong signals
> to the black box. All it would take is for the computer to miss
> interpret the "brakes are on" signal for "full throttle" and the car
> and black box both get signals for "no brake - full throttle".

.... don't think so....

I wrote this on Fri, 16 Apr 2010:

Yet another little old lady drove her Toyota into the YMCA in S---
Falls ... literally. She claimed she had her foot on the brake. The
local press reports were gratuitously neutral of course.

There appeared this letter to the editor:

"Myrna is adamant that her right foot was on the brake pedal. That
being the case, in order for her to have accelerated, she would have
had to cross her legs. Furthermore, at least one credible witness said
he observed brake lights at the same time the vehicle's engine roared
and that the roar was definitely not the sound of normal
acceleration."

o Hannes, Bonnie. "Driver Not at Fault in Sudden Acceleration Crash of
Toyota." Letter. _Press_ 9 Apr. 2010. 16 Apr. 2010.

.... and there the matter would have rested ... except that the Feds
came to town. After an investigation by the NHTSA, the police felt
emboldened to issue a *preliminary* statement, which is such an
inordinately rare event as to be unheard of:

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Wisconsin
State Patrol sent a total of five investigators -- including a vehicle
defects acceleration specialist -- to examine the car Wednesday,
Riffel said. The investigators tested the electrical, mechanical and
braking systems of the car, interviewed witnesses and reviewed the
video, which was captured on two police surveillance cameras since the
*YMCA shares the parking lot with the police department*."

"Federal and state investigators looked at the car this week, and
while that investigation is months from completion, Riffel said he
shared the preliminary findings to clear up misconceptions on the
crash. Marseille had blamed the crash on the car -- saying it
accelerated with an 'awful roar' as she tried to brake -- and asserted
a witness saw her brake lights on during the crash.

"Video surveillance footage shows the brake lights went on only after
Marseille's car hit the wall."

o Litke, Eric. "Police: Toyota Crash the Result of Driver Error."
_Press_ 16 Apr. 2010. 16 Apr. 2010.

--
... Be Seeing You,
... Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
... Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
... 75° — Wind NW 9 mph — Sky overcast.

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:54:16 -0400, Henry >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> When Toyota's "sudden acceleration" first made the news, I
>>said it was probably driver error. Looks like I was right.
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/2flsp25
>>
>> It's becoming increasingly difficult to underestimate the
>>incompetence and stupidity of the typical U.S. citizen.
>>Just read a couple of smee's psychotic, hysterical rants
>>for examples... <g>

Apparently incompetenet and stupid U.S. Citizens are attrated to Toyotas.
Otherwise why were there so many complaints of sudden accelertions realted
to Toyota products sent to NHTSA back in 2005 (well before all the
publicity)? And why are there so few sudden acceleration complaints logged
against GM products? Surely incompetenet and stupid U.S. Citizens puchase GM
products. As far as I can tell, Buick is still the choice of the older
generation (well either that or an Avalon).

> That would not explain why Toyota's have so many more instances of the
> problem then other makes.

Exactly. There was a dramatic increase in the number of sudden acceleration
incidents for certain Toyota models starting in the 2004/2005 time frame.
Something changed then. It is likely that many of these incident were
related to pedal confusion. However, the question remains why was there a
dramatic increase? Maybe a lot of feeble old people bought
2004/2005/2006/2007 Camrys...but that doesn't seem likely. The shift was
concurrent with the change to electronic throttle control. Maybe the new
pedal assemblies were relocated and that made pedal confusion more likely.
Or maybe the new pedals tended to stick, or were more likely to get caught
under mats. Or maybe the new electronic control system lead to unexpected
surging, that triggered a panic response, that sometime resulted in wreck
becasue of pedal confusion. Even if the electronic signals are not part of
the problem, the computer can't know why the pedal was depressed, only that
it was. And if the sudden acceleration incident was a result of pedal
confusion that itself was a result of panic becasue of a sudden surge
related to an electronic fault, I doubt the computer records would indicate
the actual origin of the panic (i.e., the unexpected surge). I have personal
experience with the crusie control of my SO's RAV4. Under certain conditions
it goes wild - racing the engine and downshifting violently. It has never
paniced me, but I can see where someone might react in panic.

I am willing to discount many of the post-firestorm sudden acceleration
incidents as piling on, or fraud attempts, or just people looking for an
excuse for their own failings. However, this does not apply to the sudden
increase in incidents in the 2004/2005 time frame related to sudden
accelertion complaints. Toyota managed to squash any investigation back then
(and the team that squashed it, even had the poor sense to brag about it in
a power point sent to executives in Japan). It was an unfortunate cover-up,
but was typical of Toyota's long standing practices. And it seems to me
that Toyota is using the recent NHTSA reports that many sudden acceleration
are the result of pedal confusion to implement another long standing Toyota
practice - deflect negative attention by any means necessary, including
blaming the Customer. The Toyota excuse machine is using these "favorable"
reports to create a fog that I am sure they hope will hide the fact that
there was an extrodinarily high incident of sudden acceleration incidents
for Toyota vehicles after the change to elecronic throttle controls.

Ed White