BMW's nothing but problems??? Really???

Hello,

Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.

I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
again?

I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?

I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
clutch.

Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

You'll get lots of opinions on this, even from BMW owners. Keep in mind
that a lot of folks here are under warranty or contract so they don't
pay out of pocket for every repair. BMWs are expensive to maintain as
they age, especially if you're paying Hans at the dealer $90/hr to work
on it and full markup on parts. If you can handle some of it yourself
it's not so bad. BMWs are fairly reliable, but not Japanese reliable.
But then they don't drive or look like Japanese cars either. It's a
trade off. Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)

szguitar wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
> are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.
>
> I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
> again?
>
> I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
> engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
> only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?
>
> I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
> convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
> costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
> in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
> with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
> traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
> clutch.
>
> Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
> and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>

"szguitar" > wrote
> Many of my friends have been giving me advice of DONT buy a BMW they
> are a money pit car, $900 alternators, etc... nothing but problems.

I've never had to replace an alternator, in over 350K miles of ownership
of 4 BMWs.

> I thought the best people to ask are actual BMW owners. Would you do it
> again?

I've owned 4.

> I love the way they look, the cars I've test drove felt like great
> engineering went into them. I've heard things such as real men own
> only 5 series and up? What's the deal with that?

I'm 55 and drive a 330xi. My 22 yo son drives a 525i.

> I need help in deciding whether to buy a BMW and if so, which model
> convertible would be the most reliable with the least maintenance
> costs? I would prefer something that's a pretty quick and fun to drive
> in the hills and an automatic (M3 or M5?). Pro's and con's of going
> with an automatic in a BMW? I personally prefer a stick however,
> traffic has gotten so bad it's a drag constantly going on and off the
> clutch.

None of the M cars come with an automatic. They *do* come with
the SMG transmissions. They're notorious for jerkiness in traffic and
stop-and-go driving.

> Since I've never owned a BMW all advice on years and models to avoid
> and the best years/models, tips etc. would be much appreciated.

Maintenance is free for the first 4 years/50K miles (in the US.) Arguably,
BMWNA has set the maintenance schedules (especially for fluids) to
too long of intervals. I've paid more to maintain Chrysler minivans
than our BMWs - even our '91 525i was cheaper even though they
didn't have "free" maintenance when we bought it.

FloydR

Maintenance is only ridiculous if you use a BMW Dealer for every little
job, but there's plenty of independent BMW mecahnics around that can do
the work at half the price.

BMW's have a few 'usual' weaknesses, as any other car do - once you
know what these are, maintenance is pretty easy and reliability can be
improved by preventative maintenace and generally being aware of what
goes wrong and keeping an eye/ear open for problems.

A well looked after BMW will be great, but a neglected one that's had
cheapo parts fitted will be a money sponge.

I've had auto and manual BMW's and I'd have an auto again to be honest,
for the point of view of traffic. It's so muc easier. BMW manual
gearboxes aren't fantastic anyway - they don't break for eons, but they
just feel notchy...even from new.

A bunch of us from our club went to Nurburgring last year, and a couple
of the cars were autos.

Auto gearboxes are only crap on small engined cars like a 316/318 - as
soon as you strap an auto to a 6 pot engine it's perfectly pokey enough.

On 18 Jan 2006 01:58:57 -0800, "Russ (www.e36coupe.com)"
> waffled on about something:

>Maintenance is only ridiculous if you use a BMW Dealer for every little
>job, but there's plenty of independent BMW mecahnics around that can do
>the work at half the price.
>
>BMW's have a few 'usual' weaknesses, as any other car do - once you
>know what these are, maintenance is pretty easy and reliability can be
>improved by preventative maintenace and generally being aware of what
>goes wrong and keeping an eye/ear open for problems.
>
>A well looked after BMW will be great, but a neglected one that's had
>cheapo parts fitted will be a money sponge.
>
>I've had auto and manual BMW's and I'd have an auto again to be honest,
>for the point of view of traffic. It's so muc easier. BMW manual
>gearboxes aren't fantastic anyway - they don't break for eons, but they
>just feel notchy...even from new.
>
>A bunch of us from our club went to Nurburgring last year, and a couple
>of the cars were autos.
>
>Auto gearboxes are only crap on small engined cars like a 316/318 - as
>soon as you strap an auto to a 6 pot engine it's perfectly pokey enough.

I specifically went for an auto... I'm in the UK and do a lot of
motorway miles... It's so much nicer than arriving at my destination
with a left leg twice the size of the right from all the stop/start
traffic jams, and as Russ said, a 6 cylinder auto has more than enough
grunt for general driving, even my 6 cylinder diesel!

Sure if you want a "true" drivers car, have a manual, but we spend
99.9% of the time just using them as transport, so comfort and ease of
use count for more in my book. (If you want pure drivers car, you
wouldn't have 3 other seats and a boot/trunk on the back would you!)

This is my second BMW in a year (previous one got written off by a
blind van driver, but still drove me home). Both are/were approx 10
years old, 100,000+ miles, and haven't caused me any problems. I
service them myself, and will turn my hand to most maintenance
(changed glow plugs etc). Identical BMW parts can be sourced from
other suppliers at a great discount. So if you don't mind getting your
hands dirty, they're no worse than any other car. In fact as they seem
to be well built they could be considered better.

Dodgy.
--
MUSHROOMS ARE THE OPIATE OF THE MOOSES

In the UK various consumer surveys indicate that minor quick / cheap to
fix faults are a little more common on BMW's than Honda / Toyota etc,
but major incident (i.e. engine up in smoke) are very rare and on par
with the japanese makes. Arguably a BMW will live longer than a
japanese car.

> Real BMW owners don't own automatics... :-)
Absolutely!, but better an auto than no BMW at all.

>BMW manual
>gearboxes aren't fantastic anyway - they don't break for eons, but they
>just feel notchy...even from new.
Mmmm, BMW manual boxes are considered amoung the best, the 6 speed on
my E91 (2006) 3 series is the slickest most position action box I've
ever used. If an auto box is the top priority Mercedes do better, but
then you loose out on engine and handling.
Labour rates at BMW dealers are a bit on the high side here too, you
rely on the fact that not much will need doing and if you must, turn to
an independant when your warantee is over.

"Mmmm, BMW manual boxes are considered amoung the best, the 6 speed on
my E91 (2006) 3 series "

well..ok, perhaps on the BRAND NEW cars they're improved - but this is
not the case the majority of the ZF transmissions used on the e36 / e34
/ e39 and e46 (I think).

For example, the manual e34 M5 and e36 M3 gearboxes are notchy and
quite a few suffer from gear chatter.

The 5 speed manual box used in the 6 pot e36/e39/e46 can suffer from
gear chatter too. The gearchanges on my e39 528 (with only 60k miles)
were awfully notchy, and the gear chatter in neutral was embarrasingly
loud so I had a brand new gearbox fitted at a BMW dealer. The new box
is ok, but still isn't as smooth as the gearbox in my wifes e36 316
compact (4 pot).

Not sure if on the very newest 3 and 5 series they are still using the
clutch delay valve setup. Nasty device that deadens any feedback and
control you have on clutch engagement (not used on the M3 and M5's
interestingly) - and also increases clutch wear as it only engages the
clutch at a set rate......apparently to prevent damage to the clutch
plate. A popular modiication on the e36 328 and the e39 is to remove
this valve so you can achieve better gear changes. There's also the
dual mass flywheel...which is cool as long as it doesn't leak over time
or need replacing due to excesssive clutch wear, as they're mega-bucks.

Anyway....it's more down to you personal preference when it comes to
the choice between auto or manual.....I know what I'd have next time.

AGH! wrote:
> In the UK various consumer surveys indicate that minor quick / cheap to
> fix faults are a little more common on BMW's than Honda / Toyota etc,
> but major incident (i.e. engine up in smoke) are very rare and on par
> with the japanese makes. Arguably a BMW will live longer than a
> japanese car.
>


In the UK at least, it's the dealers that give BMW a bad name. They
seem to employ kwik-fit type personnel but still want to charge the big
bucks for repairs. I had few problems with my mid-90's 3-series (other
than the dealer) but I've known a few people with big and/or scary
problems with their E46s.
The 3-series parts seem to be easier and cheaper to come by whereas
parts for the biggers cars are still expensive. Parts for japanese
cars can be pricey too.
The M-cars can be pricey because a) they might not have been built very
well and b) often the parts are different between the Ms and the
regular cars.

An automatic in a BMW is pretty much a waste. Buy a Mercedes/Chrysler
if that's what you want. BMW shouldn't even MAKE a M3/M5 with a
slushbox. Big power + rear wheel drive + transmission shifts in the
middle of a curve = problems.

Basically, BMWs will happily run at least 200,000 miles with basic
maintenance. When something DOES break, it can get expensive,
especially at dealer rates; but things break much less frequently than
on other cars.

"Russ (www.e36coupe.com)" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> "Mmmm, BMW manual boxes are considered amoung the best, the 6 speed on
> my E91 (2006) 3 series "
>
> well..ok, perhaps on the BRAND NEW cars they're improved - but this is
> not the case the majority of the ZF transmissions used on the e36 / e34
> / e39 and e46 (I think).
>
> For example, the manual e34 M5 and e36 M3 gearboxes are notchy and
> quite a few suffer from gear chatter.
>
> The 5 speed manual box used in the 6 pot e36/e39/e46 can suffer from
> gear chatter too. The gearchanges on my e39 528 (with only 60k miles)
> were awfully notchy, and the gear chatter in neutral was embarrasingly
> loud so I had a brand new gearbox fitted at a BMW dealer. The new box
> is ok, but still isn't as smooth as the gearbox in my wifes e36 316
> compact (4 pot).
>
I have an 1990 E34 535i, 5 speed manua trans, 104K miles and its one of the
smoothest shifting cars I ever driven. The key was changing the transmission
fluid to a good Synthetic. I've used Redline and am now using Purple Royal.
Both work well and really smooth out the shifting, especially when the trans
is cold. Try it!