Engines

So... are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
4-bangers? I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
to 4. Lighter and more efficient, you know...

On Feb 2, 8:27*pm, dizzy > wrote:
> So... *are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
> 4-bangers? *I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
> turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
> to 4. *Lighter and more efficient, you know...

The fact that you use the term "4-banger" is enough to make BMWNA
cringe. As one writer in Roundel stated, BMW has spent a lifetime and
billions building up an image of only offering luxury performance
cars. Putting in a turbo 4, no matter how good, is not going to meet
that image. After the debacle with the early 90s 318ti, BMW said they
won't bring over another hatchback to the US as it won't sell. Thus,
we never got the 1 Series 2 or 4 door hatchback; sigh, a 123d 5 door 1
Series is fantastic.

Of course, BMW does offer the X3, X5, X6 and now F10 5 Series GT all
of which have, surprise, a hatchback! I guess if you can get $80-90K
for a car, they will sell it!

bfd wrote:

>On Feb 2, 8:27*pm, dizzy > wrote:
>> So... *are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
>> 4-bangers? *I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
>> turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
>> to 4. *Lighter and more efficient, you know...
>
>The fact that you use the term "4-banger" is enough to make BMWNA
>cringe. As one writer in Roundel stated, BMW has spent a lifetime and
>billions building up an image of only offering luxury performance
>cars. Putting in a turbo 4, no matter how good, is not going to meet
>that image. After the debacle with the early 90s 318ti, BMW said they
>won't bring over another hatchback to the US as it won't sell. Thus,
>we never got the 1 Series 2 or 4 door hatchback; sigh, a 123d 5 door 1
>Series is fantastic.

I have no problem with hatchbacks, per se. However, I do have a
problem with 4-bangers. The unrefined vibrations. The flatulent
exhaust note. So econo-car. Many years ago I declared myself "to
old" for 4-bangers.

To pay a premium for an "upscale" German car and get a 4? That just
sucks. I don't care if the 6 does get 2 MPG less than a turbo-4 of
similar power.

And, while I'm ranting, why are they not yet selling in the US a
direct-injected normally-aspirated 6? Direct injection is better.
It's a performance/economy win-win. Bring it on. Any motor without
it is borderline obsolete, IMO.

In article >,
dizzy > wrote:
> I have no problem with hatchbacks, per se. However, I do have a
> problem with 4-bangers. The unrefined vibrations. The flatulent
> exhaust note. So econo-car. Many years ago I declared myself "to
> old" for 4-bangers.

Whilst I agree with you that an in line six is perhaps the ideal engine
for refinement (a V-8 never gives a perfectly smooth idle), there's no
reason a four should have unrefined vibrations - balance shafts are used
these days to overcome this.

--
*Why is it considered necessary to screw down the lid of a coffin?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"bfd" > wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 8:27 pm, dizzy > wrote:
> So... are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
> 4-bangers? I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
> turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
> to 4. Lighter and more efficient, you know...

The fact that you use the term "4-banger" is enough to make BMWNA
cringe. As one writer in Roundel stated, BMW has spent a lifetime and
billions building up an image of only offering luxury performance
cars. Putting in a turbo 4, no matter how good, is not going to meet
that image. After the debacle with the early 90s 318ti, BMW said they
won't bring over another hatchback to the US as it won't sell. Thus,
we never got the 1 Series 2 or 4 door hatchback; sigh, a 123d 5 door 1
Series is fantastic.

Of course, BMW does offer the X3, X5, X6 and now F10 5 Series GT all
of which have, surprise, a hatchback! I guess if you can get $80-90K
for a car, they will sell it!

Normally aspirated multivalve six cylinder engines tend to produce less
torque per cc than do other designs of engines, I forget why now, but they
are also far smoother / more refined than any other engine I have
experienced.
Engines that have forced induction have much better torque figures,
especially lower down in the rpm range where we will be encouraged to drive
our cars to reduce pollution and emissions and fuel use. Engines become less
and less efficient the higher the rpm goes due to non linear losses
developed by mechanical devices. So, some may see this as an argument for
losing two cylinders.

For those who are taller than average, and for those with back problems,
hatchbacks are much easier to load, and are more versatile. I would prefer
to have one, but not a Touring / estate.
I had an E46 320d compact, and I could easily sit in the back behind the
drivers seat set for me. I cannot in the E90, I'm 6'2", but do not consider
myself very tall.

I don't remember the 318ti as a turbo engine, did not the 't' refer to the
shape of the car being a hatch ?

When I tried the 1-series, the interior was VERY cramped, and the interior
materials were of a lower grade than I expected, and, the exterior paint
finish was not very good.
Saying that, the paint finish on our 335d made in August 2009 is extremely
poor. Many imperfections under the laquer.

I think that when people use inferior fuel with engines that utilise direct
petrol / gasoline injection, the injectors will foul more than the
indirectly injected engines, and ultimately cause more problems. I may be
proved wrong on this, but, in the UK, so many lazy gits use their cars for a
2 minute drive to the shops, the engines do not get to their operating
temperature very often.
That irritates me.

Engines that have balancer shafts are less efficient due to the increased
inertia and weight. As are those stupid dual mass flywheel / clutch systems
used in many manual cars now. the extra rotating mass needs more energy to
accelerate it.
Every manual car with a dual mass set up I have owned has been less than
satisfactory in reliability terms, all suffering with occasional clutch
judder. Before you all shout that it is my technique, I have driven hundreds
of cars over the last 25 years. BMW use a restrictor in the clutch fliud
pipe-work near the slave cylinder to overcome this, IMO unsuccessfully. Some
remove the restrcitor....

Just a quick note about the current recalls; accelerator and brake problems.
Some higher end manufacturers have been using throttle by wire for some time
now. The cheaper end of the market is showing us why it is cheaper. Quality
of parts and testing.

Did you know that Mercedes-Benz has been working on 'brake-by-wire' for a
few years ? That makes me shudder.
What next, steer by joystick ?? I know SAAB tried this.

Best regards

David



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Correction: I should have stated "Normally aspirated multivalve six cylinder in-line engines


Sorry

David

"David Skelton" > wrote in message ...
>
> "bfd" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Feb 2, 8:27 pm, dizzy > wrote:
>> So... are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
>> 4-bangers? I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
>> turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
>> to 4. Lighter and more efficient, you know...
>
> The fact that you use the term "4-banger" is enough to make BMWNA
> cringe. As one writer in Roundel stated, BMW has spent a lifetime and
> billions building up an image of only offering luxury performance
> cars. Putting in a turbo 4, no matter how good, is not going to meet
> that image. After the debacle with the early 90s 318ti, BMW said they
> won't bring over another hatchback to the US as it won't sell. Thus,
> we never got the 1 Series 2 or 4 door hatchback; sigh, a 123d 5 door 1
> Series is fantastic.
>
> Of course, BMW does offer the X3, X5, X6 and now F10 5 Series GT all
> of which have, surprise, a hatchback! I guess if you can get $80-90K
> for a car, they will sell it!
>
> Normally aspirated multivalve six cylinder engines tend to produce less
> torque per cc than do other designs of engines, I forget why now, but they
> are also far smoother / more refined than any other engine I have
> experienced.
> Engines that have forced induction have much better torque figures,
> especially lower down in the rpm range where we will be encouraged to drive
> our cars to reduce pollution and emissions and fuel use. Engines become less
> and less efficient the higher the rpm goes due to non linear losses
> developed by mechanical devices. So, some may see this as an argument for
> losing two cylinders.
>
> For those who are taller than average, and for those with back problems,
> hatchbacks are much easier to load, and are more versatile. I would prefer
> to have one, but not a Touring / estate.
> I had an E46 320d compact, and I could easily sit in the back behind the
> drivers seat set for me. I cannot in the E90, I'm 6'2", but do not consider
> myself very tall.
>
> I don't remember the 318ti as a turbo engine, did not the 't' refer to the
> shape of the car being a hatch ?
>
> When I tried the 1-series, the interior was VERY cramped, and the interior
> materials were of a lower grade than I expected, and, the exterior paint
> finish was not very good.
> Saying that, the paint finish on our 335d made in August 2009 is extremely
> poor. Many imperfections under the laquer.
>
> I think that when people use inferior fuel with engines that utilise direct
> petrol / gasoline injection, the injectors will foul more than the
> indirectly injected engines, and ultimately cause more problems. I may be
> proved wrong on this, but, in the UK, so many lazy gits use their cars for a
> 2 minute drive to the shops, the engines do not get to their operating
> temperature very often.
> That irritates me.
>
> Engines that have balancer shafts are less efficient due to the increased
> inertia and weight. As are those stupid dual mass flywheel / clutch systems
> used in many manual cars now. the extra rotating mass needs more energy to
> accelerate it.
> Every manual car with a dual mass set up I have owned has been less than
> satisfactory in reliability terms, all suffering with occasional clutch
> judder. Before you all shout that it is my technique, I have driven hundreds
> of cars over the last 25 years. BMW use a restrictor in the clutch fliud
> pipe-work near the slave cylinder to overcome this, IMO unsuccessfully. Some
> remove the restrcitor....
>
> Just a quick note about the current recalls; accelerator and brake problems.
> Some higher end manufacturers have been using throttle by wire for some time
> now. The cheaper end of the market is showing us why it is cheaper. Quality
> of parts and testing.
>
> Did you know that Mercedes-Benz has been working on 'brake-by-wire' for a
> few years ? That makes me shudder.
> What next, steer by joystick ?? I know SAAB tried this.
>
> Best regards
>
> David
>
>
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"dizzy" > wrote in message
...
>
> So... are the lovely BMW 6's going to be replaced by turbocharged
> 4-bangers? I'm sure the bigger/higher-end ones will still have the
> turbo 6 or an 8, but the 3-series that most people buy, may be going
> to 4. Lighter and more efficient, you know...
>

Low end 3 series and 5 series have often had 4 cylinder engines - you had to
pay a bit more to get the smooth refinement of a six. Most 1 series have
them too.

In particular the 520i went from I6 to I4 in 2007, OTOH sixth generation 5
series will all be six cylinder.

dizzy > wrote:
>I have no problem with hatchbacks, per se. However, I do have a
>problem with 4-bangers. The unrefined vibrations. The flatulent
>exhaust note. So econo-car. Many years ago I declared myself "to
>old" for 4-bangers.

Hey man, don't be putting down my 2002. It's zippy.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article >,
Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> >I have no problem with hatchbacks, per se. However, I do have a
> >problem with 4-bangers. The unrefined vibrations. The flatulent
> >exhaust note. So econo-car. Many years ago I declared myself "to
> >old" for 4-bangers.

> Hey man, don't be putting down my 2002. It's zippy.

Absolutely. And could be said to be the model that made BMW into the
company it is now. Didn't that engine also form the basis for a Formula 1
racing unit - before such engines became nothing like road ones?

--
*Two wrongs are only the beginning *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 5 Feb 2010 09:49:28 -0500, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>dizzy > wrote:
>>I have no problem with hatchbacks, per se. However, I do have a
>>problem with 4-bangers. The unrefined vibrations. The flatulent
>>exhaust note. So econo-car. Many years ago I declared myself "to
>>old" for 4-bangers.
>
>Hey man, don't be putting down my 2002. It's zippy.

Take a look at the "flatulent 4-banger" in the Honda S2000. I gotta
get myself one of those some day...