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Orange county, speed limit reduced?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 1st 04, 03:27 AM
Jeff Strickland
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"Peter Bozz" > wrote in message
...

> What I find appalling is the fact the the police are mainly interested
> in writing out tickets and collecting profits from fines, NOT in public
> safety on the roads. I can rip at twice the speed limit in a residential
> neighborhood, with kids playing nearby and a school down the road, and
> there will *never* be a cop there to bust my ass.


If you drive like that on my residential street, I will make sure the cops
catch you.



> I agree one should obey the law, but that's hard to justify when the law
> has been turned into a mockery of itself by the very people that are
> enforcing it.


It is never hard to justify following the law, it is often easy to
rationalize breaking it.



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  #22  
Old December 1st 04, 03:33 AM
Jeff Strickland
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"Peter Bozz" > wrote in message
...
> > California ALWAYS doubles the fines in Construction Zones, especially on

the
> > freeways and other regional routes. They may not double the fines for

work
> > on city streets, but they will for work on county roads.

>
> Just for the fun of it, I'm interested in how much the fines are in
> California (or the States for that matter). Here in the Netherlands, I
> got fined for going 13 mph over the speed limit. Usual fine is EUR 90,
> but since it was a construction zone (something I had failed to notice,
> on account of there being no equipment, workers, or any additional road
> signs to underscore that fact), the fine was raised to EUR 145. (It
> wasn't DOUBLED, I admit. Lucky me.)
>



I recently got tagged at 83 in a 65, and the fine was almost $200.

I am convinced the cop was out for sports cars because I was passed within
the previous two miles by a Ford Explorer that I was pacing after he went by
me. He passed the same cop I passed, but when I went by, the cop hung his
radar in its holster and twisted the grips. As I look back, I think the
Exporer was driving near a slower moving car that was a bigger radar target,
so the cop didn't have an accurate indicator of how fast the Explorer was
going, I was all alone on 4 lanes of concrete, and the only car that could
have been doing 80+ was me.






  #23  
Old December 1st 04, 04:29 AM
Trey
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> I'm with you, except for the last part about the construction zones.
>
> I drive from Riverside into San Diego, and back, daily. And, I am
> here to tell you that if you are doing 80, you are going too damn
> slow for the traffic. Too fast for the law, but too slow to survive.
> Speeds in CA are very high, 85 or 90 is "normal" on many stretches of
> freeway, speed laws be damned! I am not suggesting we throw the laws
> out and create a giant free-for-all out there, but there is Traffic
> Theory and Traffic Reality. I just told you of the reality.
>
> As for construction zones, it is good and proper to double the fines
> for violations in construction zones. Mostly because, if cars CAN do
> 85, it wouldn't be a construction zone, and since it is a
> construction zone, the lanes are narrower, the walls are closer, and
> there are pedestrians within 20 feet of the cars speeding by even if
> they are separated by a wall. If a car hits the wall and bounces off
> back into the traffic lanes, it can take out several other cars, any
> one of which could take out the guys trying to make the freeway wider.


I know people that drive as much as 90+ miles each way. (Apple Valley to
Disneyland, Lake Ellsinore to Santa Ana, Temecula to Newport) I really don't
know who in their right mind would do that, but its rather popular. However,
with that long of a commute, the speed limit, 55 or 65 would drive me INSANE
of I had to commute 90 miles each way. So what do they do? they pound the
gas! Is it smart? I wont answer that. That's just how it is.
Wow, 180 miles a day, five days a week, 46,800 a year. ave 65, and that's
720 hours a year, at 85 that's 550 hours a year, What would you like to be
doing for that extra 170 hours a year you save?
I think a good solution would be creating jobs closer to people's homes, so
they don't have to drive as far. If I could, I would walk or ride a bicycle
to work.


  #24  
Old December 1st 04, 04:31 AM
Trey
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Jeff Strickland wrote:
> "Peter Bozz" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> What I find appalling is the fact the the police are mainly
>> interested in writing out tickets and collecting profits from fines,
>> NOT in public safety on the roads. I can rip at twice the speed
>> limit in a residential neighborhood, with kids playing nearby and a
>> school down the road, and there will *never* be a cop there to bust
>> my ass.

>
> If you drive like that on my residential street, I will make sure the
> cops catch you.


ohh, I wish a cop would sit out in front of my house with a speed gun!!
double the speed limit would be rather common.

>
>
>
>> I agree one should obey the law, but that's hard to justify when the
>> law has been turned into a mockery of itself by the very people that
>> are enforcing it.

>
> It is never hard to justify following the law, it is often easy to
> rationalize breaking it.



  #25  
Old December 1st 04, 08:08 AM
Peter Bozz
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>>What I find appalling is the fact the the police are mainly interested
>>in writing out tickets and collecting profits from fines, NOT in public
>>safety on the roads. I can rip at twice the speed limit in a residential
>>neighborhood, with kids playing nearby and a school down the road, and
>>there will *never* be a cop there to bust my ass.

>
>
> If you drive like that on my residential street, I will make sure the cops
> catch you.


This merely proves my point.

>>I agree one should obey the law, but that's hard to justify when the law
>>has been turned into a mockery of itself by the very people that are
>>enforcing it.

>
>
> It is never hard to justify following the law, it is often easy to
> rationalize breaking it.


That's a very nice statement and all, but is has no direct bearing on my
post, which accused the police of going after cash rather than safety on
the road.
  #26  
Old December 1st 04, 08:14 AM
Peter Bozz
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>>Just for the fun of it, I'm interested in how much the fines are in
>>California (or the States for that matter). Here in the Netherlands, I
>>got fined for going 13 mph over the speed limit. Usual fine is EUR 90,
>>but since it was a construction zone (something I had failed to notice,
>>on account of there being no equipment, workers, or any additional road
>>signs to underscore that fact), the fine was raised to EUR 145. (It
>>wasn't DOUBLED, I admit. Lucky me.)
>>

>
> I recently got tagged at 83 in a 65, and the fine was almost $200.


That infraction will fetch you 115EUR here. Even with the dollar being
so cheap nowadays, that's still only $145. I guess we're "lucky" here in
the land of wooden shoes and leaden feet.

>
> I am convinced the cop was out for sports cars because I was passed within
> the previous two miles by a Ford Explorer that I was pacing after he went by
> me. He passed the same cop I passed, but when I went by, the cop hung his
> radar in its holster and twisted the grips. As I look back, I think the
> Exporer was driving near a slower moving car that was a bigger radar target,
> so the cop didn't have an accurate indicator of how fast the Explorer was
> going, I was all alone on 4 lanes of concrete, and the only car that could
> have been doing 80+ was me.
>

  #27  
Old December 1st 04, 08:29 AM
Peter Bozz
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> But no matter which way you cut it, with the immediate and standing offer to
> cut points in half, without ever reviewing your driving record, it is clear
> that tickets, at least in Colorado, aren't about making the roads safer but
> rather making money for the local municipality. A person who would otherwise
> lose their license at 12 points would still be on the road until they
> violated laws to the tune of 24 points.
>
> I guess a city ***should*** want to keep the repeat offenders on the roads
> though, as it improves revenue :^)


I believe there is a similar thing in England, where they recently
decided to cut the points in half for minor speeding offences, usually
those caught on speed cameras. "Get up to twice the number of offences
with only one license!"

  #28  
Old December 1st 04, 02:27 PM
Dori A Schmetterling
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I agree that lower speeds in very busy periods can actually speed up the
flow of traffic (queuing theory etc). However, rush hour isn't most of the
time. That is just an argument for variable limits on selected sections of
road -- no big deal to implement.

Basically the 70 mph (112 km/h) limit is generally unenforceable and very
unpopular. It doesn't mean people never get stopped and punished, but it's
not something the police like to do. As I said, traffic on dual
carriageways, especially full motorways (Autobahnen), tends to move smoothly
and safely at around 80/85 mph (c. 125 - 135 km/h).

I don't think that there is much evidence that raising the speed limit would
have a detrimental effect on road casualties. Except for last year there
has been a steady decline in deaths and injuries (and motorways are already
the safest roads in Britain) over a long period, and this has more to do
with other factors. (In that time the speed limits have been unchanged.)

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Peter Bozz" > wrote in message
...
[...]
>
> Why do the police want this? I'm asking, because experiments in Holland
> revealed that *lowering* the speed limit from 120kph to 80kph on freeways
> during rush hour or on busy sections of roadway, *improves*

[...]


  #29  
Old December 1st 04, 03:34 PM
Peter Bozz
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> time. That is just an argument for variable limits on selected sections of
> road -- no big deal to implement.


They have that in Germany. They use electronic overhead signs that come
on (automatically or otherwise) during specific traffic conditions to
cap the speed limit (usually, to 120kph, or 100kph) on sections of the
road where there's usually no limit. There's only one problem with this
system, which otherwise should work fine: people need to stick to the
temporary restrictions. I'm sure only the Germans are disciplined enough
to do this :^

> I don't think that there is much evidence that raising the speed limit would
> have a detrimental effect on road casualties. Except for last year there
> has been a steady decline in deaths and injuries (and motorways are already
> the safest roads in Britain) over a long period, and this has more to do
> with other factors. (In that time the speed limits have been unchanged.)


I believe that one reason they can't simply abolish or even raise the
speed limits is the fact that the current freeways in England (or
Holland for that matter) are not designed for very high speed traffic.
Most if not all German Autobahns *are* specifically designed for that:
for instance, the maximum road inclination allowed is 4%. Also the apron
is much more robust (a German Autobahn is twice as thick as an American
freeway), and corners have been constructed with high speed in mind.
Stir in some Cherman obsession with Maitenance and some good old Cherman
Discipline, and you can see why their roads are safe even at very high
speeds :-)
  #30  
Old December 1st 04, 07:36 PM
Trey
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Default

Peter Bozz wrote:
>>> What I find appalling is the fact the the police are mainly
>>> interested in writing out tickets and collecting profits from
>>> fines, NOT in public safety on the roads. I can rip at twice the
>>> speed limit in a residential neighborhood, with kids playing nearby
>>> and a school down the road, and there will *never* be a cop there
>>> to bust my ass.

>>
>>
>> If you drive like that on my residential street, I will make sure
>> the cops catch you.

>
> This merely proves my point.
>
>>> I agree one should obey the law, but that's hard to justify when
>>> the law has been turned into a mockery of itself by the very people
>>> that are enforcing it.

>>
>>
>> It is never hard to justify following the law, it is often easy to
>> rationalize breaking it.

>
> That's a very nice statement and all, but is has no direct bearing on
> my post, which accused the police of going after cash rather than
> safety on the road.


and since "people with sports cars have cash to burn" they are more likely
to just pay the ticket then fight it? This could be why I always see the
Porsche 911 turbo's over in the slow lane, doing 10 under the speed limit.
They know the cops think they are loaded and will just pay what ever amount
the cop says they owe.
For someone like me, this makes it very hard. I LOVE cars, and would love to
get a BMW M3. However, it would cost me my entire paycheck for the duration
of the five year loan. Any increase in insurance or registration, or any
added costs like a ticket would put my dream car up for sale after the first
pull over.
That's one nice thing about the cameras. The camera does not discriminate.
Ford Fiesta, or Ferrari Enzo, speeding is speeding to it.


 




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