A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto makers » BMW
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

BMW diesels for Cadillac?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old November 27th 04, 05:59 PM
Ramone Cila
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
...

> Even BMW knows bettter how to
> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades of
> Diesel history.


There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone else in
the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given manufacturer can
afford to spend on any given component. Just because BMW doesn't make US
style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they haven't the know-how or
capability to build one as good as a Ford Super Duty?


Ads
  #12  
Old November 27th 04, 07:04 PM
Badger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Nate Nagel > wrote:
>> I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in
>> the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the **** poor engines
>> offered by GM (Oldsmobile.)

>
> Diesels were pretty crude devices everywhere, until electronic injection
> arrived.
>
>> Also BMW has something of a "performance"
>> image here and Diesels really don't fit that.

>
> The point is that for most use, the modern diesel feels livelier. It's
> only when you can rev a petrol engine that it starts to take over.
>
>> Finally, Diesels rean't that much cheaper to run here than gasoline
>> engines, so there's no huge push to convert.

>
> In the UK, diesel is more expensive than petrol. But the better mileage -
> especially in urban driving - makes it worth while. And with all fuel
> prices on the up in the US - with little likelihood of them ever being
> cheap again, the same arguments apply.
>

Just driven my 330dSE Auto on a 500 mile round trip from the north of
Scotland south and back, average speed 53mph, average consumption
43.1mpg(imperial). I am not frightened to use the available power and torque
(184bhp/280lb.ft) when it comes to overtaking, so don't say that diesels
can't be performance cars. I *used* to have that misconception.
Badger.


  #13  
Old November 27th 04, 07:22 PM
Matt O'Toole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ramone Cila wrote:

> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Even BMW knows bettter how to
>> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades
>> of Diesel history.

>
> There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone
> else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given
> manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because
> BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they
> haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford
> Super Duty?


Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of years
to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working together.

Matt O.


  #14  
Old November 28th 04, 12:09 AM
Huw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
...
> Ramone Cila wrote:
>
>> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Even BMW knows bettter how to
>>> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades
>>> of Diesel history.

>>
>> There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone
>> else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given
>> manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because
>> BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they
>> haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford
>> Super Duty?

>
> Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of
> years
> to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working
> together.
>
> Matt O.
>
>


For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty Dump Truck
with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel for the last
five years and when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive
straight over the top of them at the first attempt.

Huw


  #15  
Old November 28th 04, 12:26 AM
Matt O'Toole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Huw wrote:

> For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty
> Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel
> for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals
> away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt.


Honda did this with the original CRX. No one knew about it until it debuted.
It was a revolutionary car in that it went from inception to showroom in 18
months. It left everyone else scratching their heads thinking, "Geez, how'd
they do that?" Also, "If they can do that, they'll be kicking our butts." Which
they did.

Being privately held, BMW could do this as well as anyone, but it hasn't been
their style.

Matt O.


  #16  
Old November 28th 04, 01:50 AM
GRL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hey, don't give them any goofy ideas. They might think your suggestion
represents pent-up demand and go for it.


GRL
"Huw" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Ramone Cila wrote:
> >
> >> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> Even BMW knows bettter how to
> >>> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades
> >>> of Diesel history.
> >>
> >> There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone
> >> else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given
> >> manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because
> >> BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they
> >> haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford
> >> Super Duty?

> >
> > Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple

of
> > years
> > to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working
> > together.
> >
> > Matt O.
> >
> >

>
> For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty Dump

Truck
> with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel for the last
> five years and when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive
> straight over the top of them at the first attempt.
>
> Huw
>
>



  #17  
Old November 28th 04, 01:56 AM
GRL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things they
can't.

They make sedans that are, largely, the most fun to drive. They make
mediocre, space inefficient, SUV's. The cannot match Japanese manufacturers
for reliability/low maintenance and likely never will (they've had 15 years
since the first LS400 appeared and they still can't match Lexus reliability,
though, thanks to Lexus rubbing their nose in it, so to speak, they have
improved a lot). They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range
that people will buy. They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the
U.S.


George

"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
...
> Huw wrote:
>
> > For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty
> > Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel
> > for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals
> > away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt.

>
> Honda did this with the original CRX. No one knew about it until it

debuted.
> It was a revolutionary car in that it went from inception to showroom in

18
> months. It left everyone else scratching their heads thinking, "Geez,

how'd
> they do that?" Also, "If they can do that, they'll be kicking our butts."

Which
> they did.
>
> Being privately held, BMW could do this as well as anyone, but it hasn't

been
> their style.
>
> Matt O.
>
>



  #18  
Old November 28th 04, 12:46 PM
Andrew Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"GRL" > wrote in message >...
> Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things they
> can't.
>

....

> They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range
> that people will buy.


BMW is quite capable of doing that (although with the US dollar at
record lows, $25,000 might be a bit tight these days). The problem is
at this price level the car would have a smaller engine and less
grunt, and American consumers don't like anything less than 200 bhp (I
guess they need it for all those derestricted interstates ).

> They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the
> U.S.


Yup. It's partly an image thing (remarkable, really, the differences
across the pond - BMW's image on this side has if anything been
improved by the good standing of its diesel models), but also diesel
grade. Apparently BMW is waiting for lower sulphur levels to be
mandated in the diesel available at North American pumps; then it will
likely bring in its SUVs with one or two diesel engines (which are far
better suited to this application than the petrols).
  #20  
Old November 28th 04, 11:26 PM
GRL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

They tried selling a mid-20's truncated 2-door hatchback version of the old
3-series in the early '90's BEFORE the fall of the dollar. It was a dismal
failure, as it deserved to be. I suppose they will try it again with a 1 or
2-series, but I predict those will end up being low 30's cars, at best.
BMW's problem is that they have gotten away with charging too much for their
cars for so long, that they never learned how to operate very efficiently,
didn't have to. The problem with that is they say they want to be a broad
product line company.


George Litwinski"daytripper" > wrote in message
...
> On 28 Nov 2004 03:46:30 -0800, (Andrew
> Thomas) wrote:
>
> >"GRL" > wrote in message

>...
> >> Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things

they
> >> can't.
> >>

> >...
> >
> >> They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range
> >> that people will buy.

> >
> >BMW is quite capable of doing that (although with the US dollar at
> >record lows, $25,000 might be a bit tight these days). The problem is
> >at this price level the car would have a smaller engine and less
> >grunt, and American consumers don't like anything less than 200 bhp (I
> >guess they need it for all those derestricted interstates ).
> >
> >> They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the
> >> U.S.

> >
> >Yup. It's partly an image thing (remarkable, really, the differences
> >across the pond - BMW's image on this side has if anything been
> >improved by the good standing of its diesel models), but also diesel
> >grade. Apparently BMW is waiting for lower sulphur levels to be
> >mandated in the diesel available at North American pumps; then it will
> >likely bring in its SUVs with one or two diesel engines (which are far
> >better suited to this application than the petrols).

>
> They may also be waiting for state legislation to ease enough to actually

sell
> diesel *cars* in the USA. I don't believe CA and MA, for two, make it easy

if
> even possible to sell diesel automobiles (as opposed to trucks)...



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.