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#11
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"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message ... > Even BMW knows bettter how to > make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades of > Diesel history. There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford Super Duty? |
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#12
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"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message ... > In article >, > Nate Nagel > wrote: >> I think it is the really poor impression of Diesels that people got in >> the US in the 70s, ironically mostly due to the **** poor engines >> offered by GM (Oldsmobile.) > > Diesels were pretty crude devices everywhere, until electronic injection > arrived. > >> Also BMW has something of a "performance" >> image here and Diesels really don't fit that. > > The point is that for most use, the modern diesel feels livelier. It's > only when you can rev a petrol engine that it starts to take over. > >> Finally, Diesels rean't that much cheaper to run here than gasoline >> engines, so there's no huge push to convert. > > In the UK, diesel is more expensive than petrol. But the better mileage - > especially in urban driving - makes it worth while. And with all fuel > prices on the up in the US - with little likelihood of them ever being > cheap again, the same arguments apply. > Just driven my 330dSE Auto on a 500 mile round trip from the north of Scotland south and back, average speed 53mph, average consumption 43.1mpg(imperial). I am not frightened to use the available power and torque (184bhp/280lb.ft) when it comes to overtaking, so don't say that diesels can't be performance cars. I *used* to have that misconception. Badger. |
#13
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Ramone Cila wrote:
> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message > ... > >> Even BMW knows bettter how to >> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades >> of Diesel history. > > There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone > else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given > manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because > BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they > haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford > Super Duty? Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of years to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working together. Matt O. |
#14
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"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message ... > Ramone Cila wrote: > >> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>> Even BMW knows bettter how to >>> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades >>> of Diesel history. >> >> There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone >> else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given >> manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because >> BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they >> haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford >> Super Duty? > > Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of > years > to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working > together. > > Matt O. > > For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt. Huw |
#15
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Huw wrote:
> For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty > Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel > for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals > away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt. Honda did this with the original CRX. No one knew about it until it debuted. It was a revolutionary car in that it went from inception to showroom in 18 months. It left everyone else scratching their heads thinking, "Geez, how'd they do that?" Also, "If they can do that, they'll be kicking our butts." Which they did. Being privately held, BMW could do this as well as anyone, but it hasn't been their style. Matt O. |
#16
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Hey, don't give them any goofy ideas. They might think your suggestion
represents pent-up demand and go for it. GRL "Huw" > wrote in message ... > > "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message > ... > > Ramone Cila wrote: > > > >> "Frank Kemper" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > >>> Even BMW knows bettter how to > >>> make impressive Diesel engines, although they only have two decades > >>> of Diesel history. > >> > >> There is nobody particularly smarter or more inventive than anyone > >> else in the automotive industry. The market dictates what any given > >> manufacturer can afford to spend on any given component. Just because > >> BMW doesn't make US style pick-up trucks is one to assume that they > >> haven't the know-how or capability to build one as good as a Ford > >> Super Duty? > > > > Yes, at least for a little while. At the very least it takes a couple of > > years > > to play catch up -- to get all the right people, and get them working > > together. > > > > Matt O. > > > > > > For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty Dump Truck > with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel for the last > five years and when launched it will blow all rivals away, if not drive > straight over the top of them at the first attempt. > > Huw > > |
#17
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Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things they
can't. They make sedans that are, largely, the most fun to drive. They make mediocre, space inefficient, SUV's. The cannot match Japanese manufacturers for reliability/low maintenance and likely never will (they've had 15 years since the first LS400 appeared and they still can't match Lexus reliability, though, thanks to Lexus rubbing their nose in it, so to speak, they have improved a lot). They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range that people will buy. They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the U.S. George "Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message ... > Huw wrote: > > > For all we know BMW might have been working on a Super Duper Duty > > Dump Truck with 2600 hp triple turbo supercooled uncommon rail diesel > > for the last five years and when launched it will blow all rivals > > away, if not drive straight over the top of them at the first attempt. > > Honda did this with the original CRX. No one knew about it until it debuted. > It was a revolutionary car in that it went from inception to showroom in 18 > months. It left everyone else scratching their heads thinking, "Geez, how'd > they do that?" Also, "If they can do that, they'll be kicking our butts." Which > they did. > > Being privately held, BMW could do this as well as anyone, but it hasn't been > their style. > > Matt O. > > |
#18
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"GRL" > wrote in message >...
> Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things they > can't. > .... > They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range > that people will buy. BMW is quite capable of doing that (although with the US dollar at record lows, $25,000 might be a bit tight these days). The problem is at this price level the car would have a smaller engine and less grunt, and American consumers don't like anything less than 200 bhp (I guess they need it for all those derestricted interstates ). > They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the > U.S. Yup. It's partly an image thing (remarkable, really, the differences across the pond - BMW's image on this side has if anything been improved by the good standing of its diesel models), but also diesel grade. Apparently BMW is waiting for lower sulphur levels to be mandated in the diesel available at North American pumps; then it will likely bring in its SUVs with one or two diesel engines (which are far better suited to this application than the petrols). |
#19
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#20
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They tried selling a mid-20's truncated 2-door hatchback version of the old
3-series in the early '90's BEFORE the fall of the dollar. It was a dismal failure, as it deserved to be. I suppose they will try it again with a 1 or 2-series, but I predict those will end up being low 30's cars, at best. BMW's problem is that they have gotten away with charging too much for their cars for so long, that they never learned how to operate very efficiently, didn't have to. The problem with that is they say they want to be a broad product line company. George Litwinski"daytripper" > wrote in message ... > On 28 Nov 2004 03:46:30 -0800, (Andrew > Thomas) wrote: > > >"GRL" > wrote in message >... > >> Let's be serious. There are things BMW can do, and there are things they > >> can't. > >> > >... > > > >> They cannot build and sell a sedan in the mid- $20K range > >> that people will buy. > > > >BMW is quite capable of doing that (although with the US dollar at > >record lows, $25,000 might be a bit tight these days). The problem is > >at this price level the car would have a smaller engine and less > >grunt, and American consumers don't like anything less than 200 bhp (I > >guess they need it for all those derestricted interstates ). > > > >> They can't bring themselves to sell a diesel in the > >> U.S. > > > >Yup. It's partly an image thing (remarkable, really, the differences > >across the pond - BMW's image on this side has if anything been > >improved by the good standing of its diesel models), but also diesel > >grade. Apparently BMW is waiting for lower sulphur levels to be > >mandated in the diesel available at North American pumps; then it will > >likely bring in its SUVs with one or two diesel engines (which are far > >better suited to this application than the petrols). > > They may also be waiting for state legislation to ease enough to actually sell > diesel *cars* in the USA. I don't believe CA and MA, for two, make it easy if > even possible to sell diesel automobiles (as opposed to trucks)... |
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