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Pulling Force



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 20th 04, 02:37 AM
g3_josh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Pulling Force

I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
of mud (up to its axle).

I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
role, etc...
A better question might be:

How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
4X4 Pickup Truck?
Semi?
2WD Tractor?
4WD Tractor?
Dozer?

Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
perhaps a bit exaggerated).


Josh
Ads
  #2  
Old January 20th 04, 03:01 AM
Roger Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

g3_josh wrote:
>
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).


Assuming all have about equal traction, pulling force would be fairly proportional to the pulling vehicle's weight. Make a guess of the ground's coefficient of friction (0 - 1 is typical) and multiply by the vehicle's weight for a pulling force. A dozer
would probably be the best with the crawler tracks increasing the traction over pneumatic tires.

--
Roger
  #3  
Old January 20th 04, 03:01 AM
Roger Brown
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

g3_josh wrote:
>
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).


Assuming all have about equal traction, pulling force would be fairly proportional to the pulling vehicle's weight. Make a guess of the ground's coefficient of friction (0 - 1 is typical) and multiply by the vehicle's weight for a pulling force. A dozer
would probably be the best with the crawler tracks increasing the traction over pneumatic tires.

--
Roger
  #4  
Old January 20th 04, 05:01 AM
Dean Hoffman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 1/19/04 7:37 PM, in article
, "g3_josh"
> wrote:

> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh


Rules of thumb: PTO horsepower is about 86% of engine horsepower.
Drawbar horsepower is about 86% of PTO horsepower. I think this is for 2WD
tractors in average conditions.
One horsepower = 33,000 Ft.Lb./min

There isn't a good answer to your question without more information. How
big are the tractors? 100 HP?
This won't help you much since traction difference will probably be a big
factor. The tractors should easily out pull the pickup and probably the
semi in dirt or mud. The dozer should out pull everything on dirt. My
guess is the dozer wouldn't do too well on concrete.
Wheel slippage for tractors is usually in the 10% -15% range in good
conditions. That's considered the most efficient for field work.
You might be able to get some information on drawbar pull from the
University of Nebraska Tractor Test Lab. I don't know if they have a
website.

Dean




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  #5  
Old January 20th 04, 05:01 AM
Dean Hoffman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 1/19/04 7:37 PM, in article
, "g3_josh"
> wrote:

> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh


Rules of thumb: PTO horsepower is about 86% of engine horsepower.
Drawbar horsepower is about 86% of PTO horsepower. I think this is for 2WD
tractors in average conditions.
One horsepower = 33,000 Ft.Lb./min

There isn't a good answer to your question without more information. How
big are the tractors? 100 HP?
This won't help you much since traction difference will probably be a big
factor. The tractors should easily out pull the pickup and probably the
semi in dirt or mud. The dozer should out pull everything on dirt. My
guess is the dozer wouldn't do too well on concrete.
Wheel slippage for tractors is usually in the 10% -15% range in good
conditions. That's considered the most efficient for field work.
You might be able to get some information on drawbar pull from the
University of Nebraska Tractor Test Lab. I don't know if they have a
website.

Dean




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #6  
Old January 20th 04, 02:50 PM
Hornblower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

a good size track dozer and you wont even know the trailer is there. just
tell the driver of the rig to leave her in neutral unless she needs a bump
start as well ;-)

be careful not to peel the tires off the rim...

"g3_josh" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh



  #7  
Old January 20th 04, 02:50 PM
Hornblower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

a good size track dozer and you wont even know the trailer is there. just
tell the driver of the rig to leave her in neutral unless she needs a bump
start as well ;-)

be careful not to peel the tires off the rim...

"g3_josh" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh



  #8  
Old January 20th 04, 03:25 PM
Doug
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I do not know the answer to an equation to solve your problem.I do know my
uncle owns a Year : 1985
Make : CAT Model: D6D Bulldowser.
It is a big machine. Pulling a Fully Loaded Semi even stuck up to the axles
is a piece of cake.
I have seen him pull a Cat Backhoe out of a revine approximately 80 feet
down.
The Backhoe was not even upright.It dragged it up on it's side like a Tonka
toy.


Doug


"g3_josh" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh



  #9  
Old January 20th 04, 03:25 PM
Doug
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I do not know the answer to an equation to solve your problem.I do know my
uncle owns a Year : 1985
Make : CAT Model: D6D Bulldowser.
It is a big machine. Pulling a Fully Loaded Semi even stuck up to the axles
is a piece of cake.
I have seen him pull a Cat Backhoe out of a revine approximately 80 feet
down.
The Backhoe was not even upright.It dragged it up on it's side like a Tonka
toy.


Doug


"g3_josh" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh



  #10  
Old January 20th 04, 06:04 PM
bowgus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The usual word of caution ... my buddy thought he'd be a smart ass and took
his cat into the soggy field to pull out the tractor ... you guessed it ...
it sank.


"g3_josh" > wrote in message
om...
> I've got a simple problem for y'all but it its going to have a
> complicated answer. Let me set up a senario: You've got a
> rope,cable,chain, or other pulling device that (ignoring shock
> loading) has a break strength of 40,000 lbs. How large of a vehicle
> can I "get unstuck"? Specifically though I'd like to know how much
> force to pull a fully loaded tractor-trailer (semi) full of beets out
> of mud (up to its axle).
>
> I realize that this depends on the how the vehicle is stuck, what it
> is stuck in, how deep, whether or not the vehicles wheels are able to
> role, etc...
> A better question might be:
>
> How much pulling force, without "jerking" or "getting a run at it",
> can a vehicle produce under ideal circumstances.
> 4X4 Pickup Truck?
> Semi?
> 2WD Tractor?
> 4WD Tractor?
> Dozer?
>
> Tractor manufacturers sometimes give a PTO HP or even a draw-bar HP
> but I can't get a draw-bar pulling force from HP (without a few more
> details). Taking engine torque and multiplying it by the drive ratio
> seems like perhaps the only way to get somewhat close (although
> perhaps a bit exaggerated).
>
>
> Josh



 




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