rFactor, weird behaviour

When I race the F3 (it happens with the other cars aswell, just less
frequent), I wonder why the next behaviour happens: The last
righthander on the Mills sprint track is usually flat out. But after
some laps, if I don't lift, I 'lose' the rear. But it doesn't feel
like an oversteer situation, due to too hot or worn tyres, but more
like the effect if you use the throttle too eager when exiting a
corner.

In the fist case you'll lose the rear and the car will follow the back
to the outside of a turn, but in the latter case the nose points to
the inside of a turn and the car will follow the nose. I do wonder why
this happens, and why the effect comes in so suddenly, i.e. in 1 lap.

Cheers!

Remco

"Remco Moedt" <no@email> wrote in message
...
>
>
> When I race the F3 (it happens with the other cars aswell, just less
> frequent), I wonder why the next behaviour happens: The last
> righthander on the Mills sprint track is usually flat out. But after
> some laps, if I don't lift, I 'lose' the rear. But it doesn't feel
> like an oversteer situation, due to too hot or worn tyres, but more
> like the effect if you use the throttle too eager when exiting a
> corner.
>
> In the fist case you'll lose the rear and the car will follow the back
> to the outside of a turn, but in the latter case the nose points to
> the inside of a turn and the car will follow the nose. I do wonder why
> this happens, and why the effect comes in so suddenly, i.e. in 1 lap.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Remco

I guess it's a combination of varying turn in accuracy and simply the
changing condition of the tyres, esp with v1.2

"Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
...
> "Remco Moedt" <no@email> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> When I race the F3 (it happens with the other cars aswell, just less
>> frequent), I wonder why the next behaviour happens: The last
>> righthander on the Mills sprint track is usually flat out. But after
>> some laps, if I don't lift, I 'lose' the rear. But it doesn't feel
>> like an oversteer situation, due to too hot or worn tyres, but more
>> like the effect if you use the throttle too eager when exiting a
>> corner.
>>
>> In the fist case you'll lose the rear and the car will follow the back
>> to the outside of a turn, but in the latter case the nose points to
>> the inside of a turn and the car will follow the nose. I do wonder why
>> this happens, and why the effect comes in so suddenly, i.e. in 1 lap.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Remco
>
> I guess it's a combination of varying turn in accuracy and simply the
> changing condition of the tyres, esp with v1.2
>
>
>

I've noticed the F3s handle like old 911's with a lot of lift off oversteer.
It doesn't seem like thats the way it should be, but now that i think about
it, it would be a good base for a Porsche supercup mod!

If you want to dial out lift off oversteer then the diff ramps and
engine mapping will do that easy - default settings, esp mapping, are not
too good, especially since those setups go back to v1.0 that had the
underpowed engine. Watch that ride height too - keep that arse end off the
deck! (esp with race fuel)



"John Smith" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Remco Moedt" <no@email> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> When I race the F3 (it happens with the other cars aswell, just less
>>> frequent), I wonder why the next behaviour happens: The last
>>> righthander on the Mills sprint track is usually flat out. But after
>>> some laps, if I don't lift, I 'lose' the rear. But it doesn't feel
>>> like an oversteer situation, due to too hot or worn tyres, but more
>>> like the effect if you use the throttle too eager when exiting a
>>> corner.
>>>
>>> In the fist case you'll lose the rear and the car will follow the back
>>> to the outside of a turn, but in the latter case the nose points to
>>> the inside of a turn and the car will follow the nose. I do wonder why
>>> this happens, and why the effect comes in so suddenly, i.e. in 1 lap.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Remco
>>
>> I guess it's a combination of varying turn in accuracy and simply the
>> changing condition of the tyres, esp with v1.2
>>
>>
>>
>
> I've noticed the F3s handle like old 911's with a lot of lift off
> oversteer. It doesn't seem like thats the way it should be, but now that i
> think about it, it would be a good base for a Porsche supercup mod!
>

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 09:24:52 +1000, "Byron Forbes"
> wrote:

> If you want to dial out lift off oversteer then the diff ramps and
>engine mapping will do that easy - default settings, esp mapping, are not
>too good, especially since those setups go back to v1.0 that had the
>underpowed engine. Watch that ride height too - keep that arse end off the
>deck! (esp with race fuel)


That doesn't seem to be the problem in my case. First, I do not lift,
second, it happens after a few laps, thus the fuelload should be even
less. And I've only for 10 laps fuel anyway. In both cases I lose grip
at the back, so I should go to the outside of the track.

What does happen is that the car suddenly goes to the inside of the
track, without smoke or squeeling tyres. I understand that it's
related to the temperature of the tyres and/or brakes (allthough I
don't use the latter), but I can't explain why.


Cheers!

Remco


>
>
>
>"John Smith" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Byron Forbes" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Remco Moedt" <no@email> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I race the F3 (it happens with the other cars aswell, just less
>>>> frequent), I wonder why the next behaviour happens: The last
>>>> righthander on the Mills sprint track is usually flat out. But after
>>>> some laps, if I don't lift, I 'lose' the rear. But it doesn't feel
>>>> like an oversteer situation, due to too hot or worn tyres, but more
>>>> like the effect if you use the throttle too eager when exiting a
>>>> corner.
>>>>
>>>> In the fist case you'll lose the rear and the car will follow the back
>>>> to the outside of a turn, but in the latter case the nose points to
>>>> the inside of a turn and the car will follow the nose. I do wonder why
>>>> this happens, and why the effect comes in so suddenly, i.e. in 1 lap.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>>
>>>> Remco
>>>
>>> I guess it's a combination of varying turn in accuracy and simply the
>>> changing condition of the tyres, esp with v1.2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've noticed the F3s handle like old 911's with a lot of lift off
>> oversteer. It doesn't seem like thats the way it should be, but now that i
>> think about it, it would be a good base for a Porsche supercup mod!
>>
>
>
>

>
> That doesn't seem to be the problem in my case. First, I do not lift,
> second, it happens after a few laps, thus the fuelload should be even
> less. And I've only for 10 laps fuel anyway. In both cases I lose grip
> at the back, so I should go to the outside of the track.
>
> What does happen is that the car suddenly goes to the inside of the
> track, without smoke or squeeling tyres. I understand that it's
> related to the temperature of the tyres and/or brakes (allthough I
> don't use the latter), but I can't explain why.
>
>
> Cheers!
>
> Remco
>

I was experiementing with some lower grip tire numbers and saw the same
thing you mentioned. On high speed corners, like the first turn at Mills,
the car would loose traction at the back. And this was after the temps had
come up to near perfect. I suspect that the behaivior isn't necessarily a
problem with the sim's physics, but the choice of numbers LO used for his
mod.
When I drive at Mills, I have a terrible time getting the inside(left)
front tire up to temp. rF has calculation that determines grip levels in
combination with tire temps. I wonder if three hot tires and one mildly
hot tire makes for a nasty handling situation? (I always ended up in the
inside armco btw)
In my case I was trying to find grip levels that allowed for some
sliding in turns, and I thought I had acheived that. But then after a few
fun laps...boom...off I'd go. I eventually gave up and returned the tires
to their default state. I'm thinking somebody smarter than me will have to
figure out where the line is that determines grip vs whooaaaaaa! #*&$)#@!


dave henrie

FWIW, Birmingham GP setup good for mid 23s


[GENERAL]
Notes=""
Symmetric=0
//CGRightSetting=4//50.0:50.0
CGRearSetting=0//43.0:57.0
//WedgeSetting=0//0.00 turns
//FrontTireCompoundSetting=0//Dry
//RearTireCompoundSetting=0//Dry
FuelSetting=14//15 L (10 laps)
NumPitstopsSetting=0//0
//Pitstop1Setting=50//N/A
//Pitstop2Setting=50//N/A
//Pitstop3Setting=50//N/A

[FRONTWING]
FWSetting=16//17

[REARWING]
RWSetting=23//25 deg

[SUSPENSION]
FrontAntiSwaySetting=11//130 N/mm
RearAntiSwaySetting=0//Detached
FrontToeInSetting=18//-0.10 deg
RearToeInSetting=21//0.05 deg
LeftCasterSetting=55//3.5 deg
RightCasterSetting=55//3.5 deg
//LeftTrackBarSetting=0//17.8 cm
//RightTrackBarSetting=0//17.8 cm
//Front3rdPackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
//Front3rdSpringSetting=0//Detached
//Front3rdSlowBumpSetting=0//1
//Front3rdFastBumpSetting=0//1
//Front3rdSlowReboundSetting=0//1
//Front3rdFastReboundSetting=0//1
//Rear3rdPackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
//Rear3rdSpringSetting=0//Detached
//Rear3rdSlowBumpSetting=0//1
//Rear3rdFastBumpSetting=0//1
//Rear3rdSlowReboundSetting=0//1
//Rear3rdFastReboundSetting=0//1

[CONTROLS]
SteerLockSetting=24//17.0 deg
RearBrakeSetting=54//53.0:47.0
//BrakePressureSetting=8//90%
//HandbrakePressSetting=0//0%

[ENGINE]
//RevLimitSetting=0//7,000
//EngineBoostSetting=0//1
EngineBrakingMapSetting=5//5

[DRIVELINE]
FinalDriveSetting=4//3.41:1
//ReverseSetting=1//3.45 (11.79)
Gear1Setting=1//3.45 (11.79)
Gear2Setting=7//2.27 (7.73)
Gear3Setting=12//1.60 (5.46)
Gear4Setting=16//1.28 (4.36)
Gear5Setting=18//1.06 (3.60)
Gear6Setting=19//0.97 (3.30)
//DiffPumpSetting=0//0%
DiffPowerSetting=3//75%
//DiffCoastSetting=1//25%
//DiffPreloadSetting=0//1

[FRONTLEFT]
CamberSetting=8//-3.2 deg
PressureSetting=24//154 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
SpringSetting=12//90 N/mm
RideHeightSetting=1//5.5 cm
//SlowBumpSetting=6//7
//FastBumpSetting=6//7
SlowReboundSetting=6//7
FastReboundSetting=6//7
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//2.0 cm
//BrakePadSetting=2//3

[FRONTRIGHT]
CamberSetting=8//-3.2 deg
PressureSetting=25//158 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
SpringSetting=13//95 N/mm
RideHeightSetting=1//5.5 cm
SlowBumpSetting=7//8
FastBumpSetting=7//8
SlowReboundSetting=7//8
FastReboundSetting=7//8
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//2.0 cm
//BrakePadSetting=2//3

[REARLEFT]
CamberSetting=18//-1.7 deg
PressureSetting=23//150 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
SpringSetting=3//30 N/mm
//RideHeightSetting=2//6.0 cm
SlowBumpSetting=2//3
FastBumpSetting=2//3
//SlowReboundSetting=2//3
//FastReboundSetting=2//3
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//2.0 cm
//BrakePadSetting=2//3

[REARRIGHT]
CamberSetting=18//-1.7 deg
PressureSetting=23//150 kPa
//PackerSetting=0//0.0 cm
SpringSetting=3//30 N/mm
//RideHeightSetting=2//6.0 cm
SlowBumpSetting=2//3
FastBumpSetting=2//3
//SlowReboundSetting=2//3
//FastReboundSetting=2//3
//BrakeDiscSetting=0//2.0 cm
//BrakePadSetting=2//3



"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
>
>>
>> That doesn't seem to be the problem in my case. First, I do not lift,
>> second, it happens after a few laps, thus the fuelload should be even
>> less. And I've only for 10 laps fuel anyway. In both cases I lose grip
>> at the back, so I should go to the outside of the track.
>>
>> What does happen is that the car suddenly goes to the inside of the
>> track, without smoke or squeeling tyres. I understand that it's
>> related to the temperature of the tyres and/or brakes (allthough I
>> don't use the latter), but I can't explain why.
>>
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Remco
>>
>
> I was experiementing with some lower grip tire numbers and saw the same
> thing you mentioned. On high speed corners, like the first turn at Mills,
> the car would loose traction at the back. And this was after the temps
> had
> come up to near perfect. I suspect that the behaivior isn't necessarily a
> problem with the sim's physics, but the choice of numbers LO used for his
> mod.
> When I drive at Mills, I have a terrible time getting the inside(left)
> front tire up to temp. rF has calculation that determines grip levels in
> combination with tire temps. I wonder if three hot tires and one mildly
> hot tire makes for a nasty handling situation? (I always ended up in the
> inside armco btw)
> In my case I was trying to find grip levels that allowed for some
> sliding in turns, and I thought I had acheived that. But then after a few
> fun laps...boom...off I'd go. I eventually gave up and returned the tires
> to their default state. I'm thinking somebody smarter than me will have
> to
> figure out where the line is that determines grip vs whooaaaaaa! #*&$)#@!
>
>
> dave henrie
>

"Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
. 97.136...
>
> >
> > That doesn't seem to be the problem in my case. First, I do not lift,
> > second, it happens after a few laps, thus the fuelload should be even
> > less. And I've only for 10 laps fuel anyway. In both cases I lose grip
> > at the back, so I should go to the outside of the track.
> >
> > What does happen is that the car suddenly goes to the inside of the
> > track, without smoke or squeeling tyres. I understand that it's
> > related to the temperature of the tyres and/or brakes (allthough I
> > don't use the latter), but I can't explain why.
> >
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Remco
> >
>
> I was experiementing with some lower grip tire numbers and saw the same
> thing you mentioned. On high speed corners, like the first turn at Mills,
> the car would loose traction at the back. And this was after the temps had
> come up to near perfect. I suspect that the behaivior isn't necessarily a
> problem with the sim's physics, but the choice of numbers LO used for his
> mod.
> When I drive at Mills, I have a terrible time getting the inside(left)
> front tire up to temp. rF has calculation that determines grip levels in
> combination with tire temps. I wonder if three hot tires and one mildly
> hot tire makes for a nasty handling situation? (I always ended up in the
> inside armco btw)
> In my case I was trying to find grip levels that allowed for some
> sliding in turns, and I thought I had acheived that. But then after a few
> fun laps...boom...off I'd go. I eventually gave up and returned the tires
> to their default state. I'm thinking somebody smarter than me will have to
> figure out where the line is that determines grip vs whooaaaaaa! #*&$)#@!
>
>
Front wing settings are + 10, ie. 14 = 24

"Dave" > wrote in message
...
>
> Front wing settings are + 10, ie. 14 = 24
>

For the F3 mod? How do you know that - I do find that very believable.