Top 5 racing sims?

Dave F wrote:

> CTDP F1 for rFactor is the most fantastic ride I've ever had in sim racing.
> Pure bliss.

Can't stand it. Not meaning any disrespect to your opinion, of course.

AT wrote:

> "Isn't that bad", rather like a vicar saying that the bible's not a bad
> read. GPL was seminal and no doubt influenced the drive for more realistic
> physics in the subsequent sims. It breathed life into this NG for so many
> years and got myself and many others interested in racing sims. Even after 8
> years it's still one of the most inspirational and involving sims.

No doubt it was a breakthrough and really pushed the genre forward.
It's also incredibly dated and not particularly realistic. It also set
the horrible standard that some developers still seem to follow where
making the car hard to drive way below the limit is a good thing, when
in reality driving most racecars (aside from ones that handled like a
3-legged table, i.e. the Cosworth 4WD F1 car or the Parnelli Jones
X-wing Indycar) below the limit isn't a big deal.

"jason moyer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dave F wrote:
>
>> CTDP F1 for rFactor is the most fantastic ride I've ever had in sim
>> racing.
>> Pure bliss.
>
> Can't stand it. Not meaning any disrespect to your opinion, of course.



Why do you dislike it so much?


--
David G Fisher

Dave F wrote:

> Why do you dislike it so much?

That's a tough thing to quantify. Ultimately, I just don't find it
particularly convincing I guess. I think the CTDP guys put a lot of
effort into their mod and it's waaaay better than the ISI-made open
wheelers, it just doesn't do it for me for whatever reason. In general
I find it very difficult to understand what the car and tires are doing
in response to my inputs in rFactor (and also F1C/F1200x). For
whatever reason I never had that problem in SCGT and I don't have it in
GTL/GTR2.

NR2003, if it can be found.
GPL, if it can be found.
rFactor.
GTR2.

That's about all I come close to caring for these days.

-Larry

"news" > wrote in message
...
> co-worker wants to buy a Logitech G25 and wants to know what games to get
> to go with it. I like my racing realistic... so much that I've been
> racing a real dirt car for the last couple of years... so I've not simmed
> much since about the time the rFactor demo came out...
>
> What would be the best 5 picks for him to buy (and why?)
> He wants realism, but maybe not quite "real" realism if you know what I
> mean.
>
> (and how about for me? What's the best of the best driving sims out there
> for how the car drives.... graphics be dammed... I want the car to feel
> like a real car would.)
>
> I'm open to all types - oval, road, rally, pointy cars, even Need for
> Speed if it's good enough. (uh... yeah... somehow I doubt any NFS is
> going to be even close to realistic enough for me after a couple years of
> getting real mud in my face.)
>
> Ray

I feel that way about pretty much any ISI based Sim, though rFactor and GTR2
are the least skiddish to me.

I think the developers are in Alaska, where there's nothing but Ice to drive
on.

-Larry

"jason moyer" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dave F wrote:
>
>> Why do you dislike it so much?
>
> That's a tough thing to quantify. Ultimately, I just don't find it
> particularly convincing I guess. I think the CTDP guys put a lot of
> effort into their mod and it's waaaay better than the ISI-made open
> wheelers, it just doesn't do it for me for whatever reason. In general
> I find it very difficult to understand what the car and tires are doing
> in response to my inputs in rFactor (and also F1C/F1200x). For
> whatever reason I never had that problem in SCGT and I don't have it in
> GTL/GTR2.
>

Richard Burns Rally is by far my favorite. It's intense and feels so
real it's scary. Its cheap now too.
Surprised noone mentioned Live For Speed, although I guess the cars and
tracks are mostly made up, but it's good online racing and it handles
better than any ISI physics IMHO, so assuming those cars DID exist it
would be realistic

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:47:22 -0600, news > wrote:

>What would be the best 5 picks for him to buy (and why?)

It's a bit like a question of which car I should buy. Personal taste
is a big factor in this. So I'll give you my top 5, and the reason
why.

1. GPL
The physics are a bit outdated, but the game is so well balanced.
It still has the finest cockpits/carmodels to date, IMO, thanks to
guys like the GPLEA. If you want to win from the AI, you've to work
for it, it took me months to win a race. Still playable online, and
mods are available for other F1 years, with 'corrected' physics.
Scores well on graphics/physics/sound/gameplay/replays.

2. RBR
It really gives you a feeling like you're driving a rally car. You
notice how fast you're driving, and I'm often scared of the speed,
feeling the need to lift. Not easy. The only downside is the fact you
don't race others, which got me bored after a while, once I knew the
stages.
Scores well on graphics/physics/sound/replays, less on gameplay after
a while

3.
ISI based sims (GTL/GTR2/rFactor)
I always have an hate/love relation with ISI based sims. The graphics
are great and still there is so much lacking. You can have great
dynamic lightning, shadows, cool refections on the car, and stuff like
that, but what's the point if the car doesn't seem to be connected to
the road?

The fact that the replay system isn't that nice doesn't help much
eighter. Online you don't see the suspension move of your opponents,
and the tyre smoke doesn't feel realistic.

The physics feel nice with a better tyremodel than GPL, but I've
always the feeling the car floats. It doesn't help that the controller
lags a bit. I also don't like the way the brakes behave when the disc
is hot, it's too much an on/off switch.

The AI is bad (rFactor), or not realistic(GTR2/GTL). They match their
speed on your pace, I always hate that. They also do things which
would get your licence pulled in real life. I don't like racing them.
I also don't like it you've to earn the cars, not all of us do've the
time to race severall hours a day to get the credits.

Online is a mixed bag. I only played rfactor online, and the problem
is that there are too many mods to get a lot of drivers using the mod
you like. Since there're so many mods, the quality of drivers is too
wide spread, with a small chance of racing a group of drivers evenly
matched.

So, what is the love part then... :-) It's the immersion when you're
driving a car like the Saleen in GTR2 through Eau Rouge, it's the
sound, it's the modelling of weather, it's the F1 1979 Mod on Kyalami,
and it's the idea that all the problems I have could be fixed easily
with the next patch...but the latter thing is true for years with the
ISI sims, allthough I keep hoping.
Great on sound, mixed feelings with the rest.

4.
LFS
This is a good online racer, with decent
graphics/sounds/physics/replays and stuff. However, the mentallity
of other drivers is what kills it for me. I always compare it with
Quake on wheels, always expecting an headshot when exiting a turn.
Offline the AI is too dull, the same goes for the tracks.
Nice on Graphics/Sound/Physics/Replays, mixed feeling about gameplay.

5.
NetKar Pro
Driving a car in Netkar Pro, if you can get the car started :-/, is
the most realistic experience in a sim I have. The latest patch dumbed
it down somewhat (Grrr BRD), but it's still a great feeling.
Graphics/Sound/Physics, all great. But then, the gameplay...what
gameplay? There is no AI, no filled servers online. The only gameplay
there is, is an online league, but that doesn't help if it doesn't fit
your schedule.

It might improve someday, who knows...
Great on graphics/sound/physics, mediocre on replays, no gameplay.


Well, this is my top 5, for what's worth...


Cheers!

Remco

You've already had lots of recommendations, heres my opinion...

My choices are in no particular order as they all have good and bad
points.

GPL (Grand Prix Legends)

The Grandaddy of modern racing sims, yes its old, yes the graphics
are not the best, yes the physiocs are not the best, but..... When
you drive GPL, it just "feels" right. Based on the 1967 F1 cars,
which had no downforce, no aerodynamics, no wings, no slick tyres,
no electronics to help you drive the car, poor brakes, these cars
were hard to race in real life and this sim reflected that fact, but
keep practising and boy do you get rewarded. An absolute must have.
despite the fact that this sim is now approx 8 years old. On-line
racing is still a blast with this one too (via VROC) Seek it out and
buy it, get the car, track and graphics updates, and enjoy.

GTR2

An improvement over the first GTR, with great physics and graphics
(but needs a high spec pc) and good on-line racing.

GTL

A good retro racing sim / game, comparable with GTR2 (its from the
same makers) with similar physics, graphics, etc, but here you can
race older cars on older tracks in many different formulas. Good
on-line racing too.

TOCA 3

I've always liked the TOCA sim series, and this is the best yet, the
physics are not the best, but the graphics are great and the actual
racing is good close fun. You also have a large choice of cars,
track and formula's to choose from.

Colin McRae Rally 4 (CMR4) or Richard Burns rally (RBR)

I think these two are pretty equal in most respects and are probably
the best Rally racing sims out there.

8-)

*Peter* - http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/

On 2 Dec 2006 01:57:37 -0800, "Vectrex" > wrote:

>Richard Burns Rally is by far my favorite. It's intense and feels so
>real it's scary. Its cheap now too.
>Surprised noone mentioned Live For Speed, although I guess the cars and
>tracks are mostly made up, but it's good online racing and it handles
>better than any ISI physics IMHO, so assuming those cars DID exist it
>would be realistic


Do you know of a reputable place to purchase RBR in the US? I just
checked Amazon and they offer a CD and DVD version (is it safe to
purchase the DVD version?) from a few websites that I've never heard
from.

Any way, I am going to cancel my long-time Amazon account soon as they
now all of a sudden ship everything to me via DHL and DHL doesn't
deliver out here (at least on time!).

-pw