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Right Lane Impatience



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 16th 05, 12:47 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 12:58:17 GMT, "Larry Scholnick"
> wrote:

>We all understand how an ideal KRETP-based world would work. If there are 3
>lanes in your direction of travel, the left lane would have the fastest
>drivers while they were passing the in-between speed drivers in the #2 lane;
>the #3 lane would have the slowest drivers who aren't passing anyone else.
>
>So, when I'm traveling at nearly the posted speed limit in the far right
>lane, and another vehicle changes lanes from a faster lane to be behind me,
>and then rides my bumper like I'm driving too slowly, I don't understand it.
>He had a choice; he could have passed me before moving into the far right
>lane. If he thought I'm not following closely enough, his obvious better
>move would have been to change lanes ahead of me rather than behind me.
>
>Can anyone offer some insight into this driving behavior?


Yes, either you slowed down to **** him off, resulting in you getting
****ed on, or he is an incompetent driver.
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  #12  
Old December 16th 05, 01:13 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience


>> Sure, sometimes you can pass someone and then they catch
>> up again at the next lights. But if you beat the lights and they
>> don't, then you're 2 minutes ahead of them and that gap will
>> usually never be reversed. Passing someone *does* actually
>> get you there faster than them, on average.

>
> Faster than them, of course! Not "on average", every time. But how
> much faster? There's almost always another set of lights beyond the
> set at the bottom of the ramp, usually several.
>
>> Most of the time, when someone passes me at a good rate of
>> speed, I never see them again -- or I see them parked at the
>> diner half an hour later, etc.

>
> Sometimes, I'd disagree that it's most times. I often notice that the
> person who passed me five minutes ago is walking to the door or not
> even out of their vehicle yet. Not much of a gain.
>


Here we're dealing with two types of people who don't understand averages.
There are the guys who pass you, who are only going a few more miles (or
less) before they reach their destination. Those are the guys who don't
realize that their average speed is not going to increase significantly if
they get ahead of the slowpoke (you). Those are the ones you see walking in
the door when you two coincidentally stop at the same destination. Then
there's YOU. You see some people passing you and ending up not too far
ahead of you. What you DON'T notice, is that the smarter drivers who pass
you do so as they are NOT stopping within a few miles and if they just pass
a few slowpokes along the way (such as you), they can get to their
destination significantly faster. It's called average speed. If your speed
is slower on average, then someone who passes you and maintains a higher
average speed by doing so will travel significantly farther than you do in
the same amount of time.

Yes, some idiots pass you just because they can, and it doesn't get them
far. But you don't notice the ones who pass you that you never see again.
Those are the ones who were going farther than the closest Wal-Mart, and
didn't want to take all fricking day to get to their destination. -Dave



  #13  
Old December 16th 05, 03:16 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

"gpsman" > wrote
> Old Wolf wrote:
>> Sure, sometimes you can pass someone and then they catch
>> up again at the next lights. But if you beat the lights and they
>> don't, then you're 2 minutes ahead of them and that gap will
>> usually never be reversed. Passing someone *does* actually
>> get you there faster than them, on average.

>
> Faster than them, of course! Not "on average", every time. But how
> much faster? There's almost always another set of lights beyond the
> set at the bottom of the ramp, usually several.
>
>> Most of the time, when someone passes me at a good rate of
>> speed, I never see them again -- or I see them parked at the
>> diner half an hour later, etc.

>
> Sometimes, I'd disagree that it's most times. I often notice that the
> person who passed me five minutes ago is walking to the door or not
> even out of their vehicle yet. Not much of a gain.


As Dave mentions in another reply, it's all about *average* speed.
You have no way to know if the person that passed you has spent
several hours or just a few minutes at the speed he passed you at.
However, it's clear that passers will *on average* get there faster -
people going as slow or slower have little chance of getting there
faster: faster is the only option that works consistently.

FloydR
  #14  
Old December 16th 05, 07:25 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

In article > , Larry Scholnick wrote:
> So, when I'm traveling at nearly the posted speed limit in the far right
> lane, and another vehicle changes lanes from a faster lane to be behind me,
> and then rides my bumper like I'm driving too slowly, I don't understand it.
> He had a choice; he could have passed me before moving into the far right
> lane. If he thought I'm not following closely enough, his obvious better
> move would have been to change lanes ahead of me rather than behind me.
>
> Can anyone offer some insight into this driving behavior?


The person doesn't understand lane usage. I've been tailgated countless
times in the right lanes. I respond by letting my foot off the
accelerator until I am traveling at the legal minimum or he is no longer
tailgating.


  #15  
Old December 16th 05, 07:32 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

In article .com>, Old Wolf wrote:

> Sure, sometimes you can pass someone and then they catch
> up again at the next lights. But if you beat the lights and they
> don't, then you're 2 minutes ahead of them and that gap will
> usually never be reversed. Passing someone *does* actually
> get you there faster than them, on average.


Just like the other night. I was once again at the set of lights where if
I don't get on the accelerator when the first one turns green I get
nothing but red lights for several lights in a row. I accelerated
rapidly, another driver in another lane didn't. I made the next light
just as it was going to yellow, he got a red. I then got greens for
several lights in a row while he was red light cycles.

He was probably still on that road while I was sitting at home.

Of course according to gpsman I'm a bad driver because I understand these
conditions and drive appropiately for them. (note, I did not exceed the
underposted speed limit)

> Most of the time, when someone passes me at a good rate of
> speed, I never see them again -- or I see them parked at the
> diner half an hour later, etc.


The crazy, reckless people, the ones that cut people off, etc. I never
see them again. They get in front of me in traffic and take those risks
and force other drivers to brake... all sorts of MFFY behavior and I'll
never catch up with them making proper lane changes etc. Even when my
open road speed is higher than theirs.

  #16  
Old December 16th 05, 07:39 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

In article et>, Dave wrote:

> Here we're dealing with two types of people who don't understand averages.
> There are the guys who pass you, who are only going a few more miles (or
> less) before they reach their destination. Those are the guys who don't
> realize that their average speed is not going to increase significantly if
> they get ahead of the slowpoke (you). Those are the ones you see walking in
> the door when you two coincidentally stop at the same destination. Then
> there's YOU. You see some people passing you and ending up not too far
> ahead of you.


Yes, those people... the ones that make lots of nonsensical jumps also
MFFY types without keeping the average speed up. They continually end up
behind me on interstates tailgating me over and over and over again.
Sometimes they get really ****ed that they keep ending up behind me.

> What you DON'T notice, is that the smarter drivers who pass
> you do so as they are NOT stopping within a few miles and if they just pass
> a few slowpokes along the way (such as you), they can get to their
> destination significantly faster. It's called average speed. If your speed
> is slower on average, then someone who passes you and maintains a higher
> average speed by doing so will travel significantly farther than you do in
> the same amount of time.


Yep. The whole idea of good driving IMO is the best average speed without
being noticed. Bicycle commuting my goal was always the highest average
speed.

  #17  
Old December 16th 05, 08:04 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

In article >,
Brent P > wrote:
>Just like the other night. I was once again at the set of lights where if
>I don't get on the accelerator when the first one turns green I get
>nothing but red lights for several lights in a row. I accelerated
>rapidly, another driver in another lane didn't. I made the next light
>just as it was going to yellow, he got a red. I then got greens for
>several lights in a row while he was red light cycles.


I wonder who designed that light timing. Seems like it would encourage
those behind to try to pass aggressively and speed (faster than is typically
safe for the conditions) or tailgate to make the green lights instead of
being stuck at red lights.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
  #18  
Old December 16th 05, 11:05 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

In article >, Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article >,
> Brent P > wrote:
>>Just like the other night. I was once again at the set of lights where if
>>I don't get on the accelerator when the first one turns green I get
>>nothing but red lights for several lights in a row. I accelerated
>>rapidly, another driver in another lane didn't. I made the next light
>>just as it was going to yellow, he got a red. I then got greens for
>>several lights in a row while he was red light cycles.


> I wonder who designed that light timing. Seems like it would encourage
> those behind to try to pass aggressively and speed (faster than is typically
> safe for the conditions) or tailgate to make the green lights instead of
> being stuck at red lights.


Thankfully it's 3 lanes in that direction with one lane appearing just a
few yards before the light so I can usually be at the stop line of the
new rightmost lane. If I am not first in line the odds of making it are
slim. I have seen some reckless passing but not a lot. Most people simply
are clueless about the light timing around here.

The first two lights have been there since I've been driving the road.
They are on both ends of a overpass over an interstate. The third light
was added a year or two ago when a new resturant was opened. The forth
light is a little off-timed and I actually have to slow to time it's green.
unfortantly sloth at the light usually causes me to stop anyway. The
lights from then on out are more sensor driven, but usually if I've had
greens this far I don't catch a red for several more lights. If I get
reds for some reason I get reds on some of the others too.

As far as speed goes, the road is woefully underposted at 45mph. A 4
lane road parallel to this 6 lane one has a higher speed limit.
(figure that out ) Traffic typically flows at 60mph. If I get up to
45mph fast enough I don't have to exceed the speed limit to make most
important green.




  #19  
Old December 16th 05, 04:35 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Right Lane Impatience

On 16 Dec 2005 07:04:02 GMT, (Timothy J. Lee)
wrote:

>In article >,
>Brent P > wrote:
>>Just like the other night. I was once again at the set of lights where if
>>I don't get on the accelerator when the first one turns green I get
>>nothing but red lights for several lights in a row. I accelerated
>>rapidly, another driver in another lane didn't. I made the next light
>>just as it was going to yellow, he got a red. I then got greens for
>>several lights in a row while he was red light cycles.

>
>I wonder who designed that light timing.


There is a fallacious assumption that many Sloth Coasters make. Not
every traffic signal is controlled solely by a fixed timer. Most
modern traffic signals are equipped with sensors that detect vehicles
at and approaching the intersection. A car on a cross street half a
block away from the intersection (and out of your sight) might trip
the mid-block loop sensor in the pavement and immediately turn your
light yellow. Many intersections, especially major ones, also have
video cameras with a live feed to a taffic control center, where human
operators have the ability to alter the current operating mode of the
signals as well as direct override control over whether lights are
red or green (e.g. to help clear a traffic jam).

In modern traffic sontrol systems, timers are used primarily to limit
the maximum amount of time a particular direction will get the green
during any particular cycle. The logic is something like

while (traffic_detected AND timer < 2 minutes)
{
DisplayGreenLight();
}

Drivers who try to drive as though the control logic were still

while (timer < 2 minutes)
{
DisplayGreenLight();
}

are going to be seriously dissapointed, at least in SoCal. Places like
Chicago still have many, many older signals which are strictly
timer-controlled - which is how Brent can work the timing to his
advantage and hit several green lights in a row. Unfortunately, many
new immigrants to SoCal who comes from places like Chicago fail to
realize that their old tricks no longer work, and these Sloth Coasters
end up doing nothing but clogging the road.

  #20  
Old December 16th 05, 06:54 PM posted to rec.autos.driving
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Default Traffic light controls Right Lane Impatience

In article >,
Scott en Aztlán <newsgroup> wrote:
>In modern traffic sontrol systems, timers are used primarily to limit
>the maximum amount of time a particular direction will get the green
>during any particular cycle. The logic is something like
>
>while (traffic_detected AND timer < 2 minutes)
>{
> DisplayGreenLight();
>}


In NorCal, the typical traffic light control has a "default green" on
the larger street. At specific intervals (e.g. every 30 seconds, or
1 minute, or on some other schedule based on synchronization with nearby
lights on the larger street), the side street's and left turn lanes'
sensors are polled. If something is detected, the side street and/or
left turn lanes are given green. If not, the larger street continues
to stay green (or one side may stay green if only one left turn lane
sensor detects something).

Racing for the sensor won't help if you are on the "default green"
direction, but may help if you are on a side street or left turn lane
and it didn't just turn red (if it just turned red, you'll be waiting
a full cycle, so there is no point in racing for the sensor).
Observation of other traffic in the intersection can give clues as to
what phase the light is in. Though if you travel the same roads every
day, you'll probably notice a pattern that you'll always get green at
certain lights, often get red at certain other lights unless there is
no cross traffic, etc..

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
 




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