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What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 5th 11, 03:39 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
PaxPerPoten
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Posts: 18
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

On 9/4/2011 7:40 PM, mark wrote:
> When we bought the van a few years ago, the check engine light was on.
> The diagnostic at AutoZone indicated possible fan relay, among other
> things I had to fix. Replaced the relay, fans worked fine for 3
> months, Same thing, got a relay from a dealer this time, 3 months or
> so, I'm replacing it for the 3rd time. What's causing it to burn out?
> The plastic on the connector at the pin 1 ( ? ) contact is a bit
> melted. Help! These relays ain't cheap...
> Mark Goodall



Sounds like the electric fan/or fans have a bad winding causing heavy
current draw..Possibly burning the relay contacts off.


--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
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  #12  
Old September 5th 11, 03:41 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
PaxPerPoten
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Posts: 18
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

On 9/4/2011 8:04 PM, ng_reader wrote:
> On 9/4/2011 8:40 PM, mark wrote:
>> When we bought the van a few years ago, the check engine light was on.
>> The diagnostic at AutoZone indicated possible fan relay, among other
>> things I had to fix. Replaced the relay, fans worked fine for 3
>> months, Same thing, got a relay from a dealer this time, 3 months or
>> so, I'm replacing it for the 3rd time. What's causing it to burn out?
>> The plastic on the connector at the pin 1 ( ? ) contact is a bit
>> melted. Help! These relays ain't cheap...
>> Mark Goodall

>
>
> Yes, they are pretty cheap. Like $12.


Not from Mopar or an after market discount store. Are you buying them
from a junkyard?

But it is the fan that is throwing
> the voltage out of whack. It's easier just to use the single speed fan
> than replace all.



--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
  #13  
Old September 5th 11, 03:47 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
PaxPerPoten
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Posts: 18
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

On 9/4/2011 10:58 PM, Daniel who wants to know wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> When we bought the van a few years ago, the check engine light was on.
>> The diagnostic at AutoZone indicated possible fan relay, among other
>> things I had to fix. Replaced the relay, fans worked fine for 3
>> months, Same thing, got a relay from a dealer this time, 3 months or
>> so, I'm replacing it for the 3rd time. What's causing it to burn out?
>> The plastic on the connector at the pin 1 ( ? ) contact is a bit
>> melted. Help! These relays ain't cheap...
>> Mark Goodall

>
> They aren't relays at all, the rad fan on 3rd generation Chrysler vans are
> all variable speed and what they call a "relay" is actually an electronic
> PWM motor speed controller with a big power MOSFET in it. If it is
> overheating the fan is likely overamping or the "relay" might need to be
> bolted to something that is better at getting rid of heat, like an old
> computer CPU heatsink.


With a bit of silicon grease between the relay and the radiator bracket.
Aids in cooling a relay that does get hot. Also use Contact cleaner on
the relay and the connector. Some folks are too lazy to lock the relay
to the radiator bracket and that shortens the life of the relay. They
are solid state units and do need to be cooled.
>
>



--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
  #14  
Old September 5th 11, 05:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Mark Goodall
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Posts: 17
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

Thanks, Mopar Man. And PaxPerPoten, check out this fan test:
http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/jee...lay_test_6.php
I ran the test with my multimeter, passenger side fan showed about 10 amps, driver side fan 62 amps! Does this test sound kosher? I didn't know you could test potential current draw with just an ohm-meter. If so, could I have fried the new PWM relay before the fans tried to spin? I read the whole article, but I can't check the 'relay' because I don't have a 'generic scanner' and probably wouldn't know how to use it. Would Advance or Autozone be able to test the relay? I just spent big bucks on the relay, so if it's fried they'll replace it, but if it's okay I'll keep it, replace the fans, and keep troubleshooting. By the way, I'm a 53 year old audio engineer, so I'm a little green when it comes to working on cars.
Thanks a whole lot, guys
  #15  
Old September 5th 11, 05:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Mark Goodall
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Posts: 17
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

Hey PaxPerPoten, (is that Latin?) ng_reader was the one who said "yes they are cheap, like 12 bucks" Not at Advance, it was about 58 bucks. Check out my previous post. I guess I'll call Advance & Autozone to see if they can check the PWM relay. I kinda doubt that they can.
Mark
  #16  
Old September 5th 11, 05:28 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
PaxPerPoten
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Posts: 18
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

On 9/5/2011 11:06 AM, Mark Goodall wrote:
> Thanks, Mopar Man. And PaxPerPoten, check out this fan test:
> http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/jee...lay_test_6.php
> I ran the test with my multimeter, passenger side fan showed about 10 amps, driver side fan 62 amps! Does this test sound kosher? I didn't know you could test potential current draw with just an ohm-meter. If so, could I have fried the new PWM relay before the fans tried to spin? I read the whole article, but I can't check the 'relay' because I don't have a 'generic scanner' and probably wouldn't know how to use it. Would Advance or Autozone be able to test the relay? I just spent big bucks on the relay, so if it's fried they'll replace it, but if it's okay I'll keep it, replace the fans, and keep troubleshooting. By the way, I'm a 53 year old audio engineer, so I'm a little green when it comes to working on cars.
> Thanks a whole lot, guys


R/V=A Not a very accurate way to measure current. The very best is
still a DC current meter and the fan running. You can also use
a clamp around the wire device that is hooked to a DC Current meter
rather then an in line system. A clamp current detector can also be used
on your "O" scope.


--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
  #17  
Old September 5th 11, 05:57 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
PaxPerPoten
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Posts: 18
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

On 9/5/2011 11:21 AM, Mark Goodall wrote:
> Hey PaxPerPoten, (is that Latin?) ng_reader was the one who said "yes they are cheap, like 12 bucks" Not at Advance, it was about 58 bucks. Check out my previous post. I guess I'll call Advance& Autozone to see if they can check the PWM relay. I kinda doubt that they can.
> Mark


Simple..Take it back..And then buy another one elsewhere..Or just buy
another one and when fixed take one back. $58 is about right. After all
it is a solid state relay that manufactured for 58¢. So that markup
sounds about right. ;-p It had to travel first class from China.


--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster
  #18  
Old September 5th 11, 06:07 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
MoPar Man
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Posts: 660
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

Mark Goodall wrote:

> Thanks, Mopar Man. And PaxPerPoten, check out this fan test:


http://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/jee...lay_test_6.php

> I ran the test with my multimeter, passenger side fan showed about
> 10 amps, driver side fan 62 amps! Does this test sound kosher?


I wouldn't even think that 10 amps is normal, let alone 62 amps.

In doing some web-searching, I've come across references where people
pull electric fans out of junkyard '89 Taurus to put into '94 Mustang:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...cfan/index.php

They measure the current draw of the motor at 40 amps using the
"high-speed" supply wire.

That is a single large motor/fan. I would guess that if you have a
setup using multiple smaller fans, that the individual fans will draw a
smaller amount of current, but maybe collectively you're still looking
at 20+ amps worth of draw.

I wouldn't have thought that the current draw for a car's electric
radiator fan (or fans) wouldn't have exceeded 5 or 10 amps in total, but
it appears that they might very well do double or 4 time that amount.
And if so, I really have to question the over-all energy efficiency of
having electric fan motors vs a mechanical fan turned directly by the
engine.

> I didn't know you could test potential current draw with just
> an ohm-meter.


That seems like a really hokey way to test the current draw of a DC
motor - by measuring it's zero-RPM resistance. That would probably tell
you what the starting current is for the motor, but not the running
current (starting current is always higher). When a motor is running,
it's creating a "back EMF" voltage that reduces it's current draw - but
that's a function of it's RPM. If your fan is gummed up and doesn't
turn freely, then your RPM will not be what it should and your current
draw will go up.

> If so, could I have fried the new PWM relay before the fans tried
> to spin?


Or even if your fans do spin, they have too much mechanical resistance
that over hours or days of operation will burn out your controller.

> Would Advance or Autozone be able to test the relay?


Take the fans apart, or spray a lot of WD-40 into them and get them
spinning easily by hand, then hook them back up directly to the battery
(to make sure they spin nice and easy and fast) and then hook them up to
the relay / controller and see if they spin when the engine is running
(the engine might have to be hot for the fans to come on).

If you use WD40, then I'd spray something else into the fan after (a
true or real lubricant, like maybe a silicone spray). WD40 is more of a
solvent / cleaner than it is a lubricant.

You might also want to look at this:

http://autorepair.about.com/library/a/1f/bl287f.htm
  #19  
Old September 5th 11, 08:18 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Rob[_24_]
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Posts: 14
Default What's burning out the radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0?

green is hot, black is ground but I'd just replace them. save you a lot of
headaches and they will last another 13 years or more.


"Mark Goodall" > wrote in message
...
It appears it's not the 'relay' this time. I replaced it ($58) and the fans
wouldn't work, running the van up past normal temp. I should have known,
because last time the check engine scan threw a code for it, and this time
it didn't. As Daniel indicated, it's not a relay, so I don't think I can
check it with a VOM. The fans run fine straight off the battery (although
one fan has a bit of resistance when I turn it by hand)so I'm thinking about
wiring them to the battery and fuse box so they only run with the key on. I
think the fan wires are green & black, anyone know the polarity so they spin
the right direction?
Mark Goodall


  #20  
Old September 8th 11, 04:37 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Mark Goodall
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Posts: 17
Default Radiator fan relay, 98 Grand Voyager 3.0 L, continued

Yes it did throw the code for rad fan pwm relay - the Advance Auto guy wrote the code down and wrote something about exhaust emission control (wrong) I looked it up at home and confirmed it at Autozone.
Mark
 




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