Bankruptcy and Reorganization for Detroit?

On 2008-11-24, Dave Head > wrote:

> 3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about the poor -
> they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of life).

Replace it with *NOTHING*. Stop having an empire that the country cannot
afford.

On 2008-11-24, edward ohare > wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>
>
>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>
>
> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with mere
> cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
> completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!

The debt doubled by having wars on credit and corporate welfare and
bailouts. Lowering taxes on individuals is never a bad thing.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:00 -0600, Brent P
> wrote:

>On 2008-11-24, Dave Head > wrote:
>
>> 3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about the poor -
>> they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of life).
>
>Replace it with *NOTHING*. Stop having an empire that the country cannot
>afford.

How do you propose to run the gov't at all without any taxes? Wanna go the
Somalia route - no gov't at all? I imagine we can do that, but nobody would
like it, I think.

On 2008-11-24, Dave Head > wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:27:00 -0600, Brent P
> wrote:
>
>>On 2008-11-24, Dave Head > wrote:
>>
>>> 3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about the poor -
>>> they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of life).
>>
>>Replace it with *NOTHING*. Stop having an empire that the country cannot
>>afford.
>
> How do you propose to run the gov't at all without any taxes? Wanna go the
> Somalia route - no gov't at all? I imagine we can do that, but nobody would
> like it, I think.

Nice strawman. I said replace the _federal income tax_ with nothing.
Without the federal income tax, federal government spending would
have to be rolled back to something like level it was in the mid 1990s.
The federal income tax is not the only federal tax. Before you lash out
you might want to do a wee bit of basic research. Constitutionally
limited government would be rather small and cheap to operate anyway.

As to your Somalia nonsense, first of all even if the federal government
were eliminated entirely there would still be tons of government in the
USA. City, county, and state. A far away central government trying to
micromanage everything is a monumentally bad idea anyway. Secondly,
Somalia starts to recover when there is no government, the problems are
from those who are trying to impose one by force. In other words, the
criminals who either create or eventually infest government. The people
themselves get on quite well without some government parasites taking
half of what they earn.

Why do you think not having a government that is trying to micromanage
our lives is so scary? Would you kill your neighbor for his stuff if the
government's police weren't around? I would think not. The criminals'
behavior isn't much altered by the presence of the government's police
either. It's really about how well the good people are knit together
than about the government's cops. The more people are isolated and
unable to act the easier the prey they become for the criminals. It
doesn't matter how many cops are around because they can't be
everywhere.

As to a country to be like from a standpoint of taxation and services
I would chose lichtenstein. The ruling prince of Lichtenstein is on
record as saying that a taxation rate of 6% is all that is needed to
provide the basic services and anything more is tyrannical.

In article >,
edward ohare > wrote:

> Taxpayer money cannot bail out Detroit.
True.

>Only consumer money, spent on
> the purchase of Detroit's vehicles,
That they want to buy Detroit's vehicles.
>can bail them out.

>It appears way
> too late for that.
Unfortunately it does.
The lack of a plan at the Gov meeting, indicates they have no way to go.

edward ohare > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head >
> wrote:
>
>
>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>
>
> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with
> mere cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income
> tax completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!

You do realize that the revenue INCREASED in the last 8 years, right?

> Here's how to sell Detroit Iron:
>
> 1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>
> 2) The huge overhead of cars made in the USA incurred from the
> income tax is removed, and "Detroit Iron" gets really cheap.
>
> 3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine
> about the poor - they'll get compensation for the basic
> necessities of life).


The problem with introducing a consumption tax and repealing the
income tax is that in 5 years politicians will easily reintroduce the
income tax, and we'll be socked with both of them.

Larry,

It did, but debt increased much faster. If you want numbers, the debt was
just about $5.8 trillion in 2000, is now over $10.6 trillion.

Yes, the economy has grown, but debt has grown faster. Our Debt-to-GDP ratio
was about 0.6 in 2000, is now 0.93. That means our debt is now equal to 93%
of our annual GDP.

And we continue to borrow money to try and stabilize a situation caused by
borrowing too much money.

Surely we can borrow our way out of debt. Reaganomics says so.

Allan

--
One asks, many answer, all learn -- Plato, on the 'Forum
---
True civility is when every one gives to every other one every right
that they claim for themselves.

"Larrybud" > wrote in message
. 245.22...
> edward ohare > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.
>>
>>
>> Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with
>> mere cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income
>> tax completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
>> revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!
>
> You do realize that the revenue INCREASED in the last 8 years, right?

On 2008-11-24, Allan Smith > wrote:
> Larry,
>
> It did, but debt increased much faster. If you want numbers, the debt was
> just about $5.8 trillion in 2000, is now over $10.6 trillion.

Make that 18 trillion.
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...Drk&refer=home
Fed Pledges Top $7.4 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit (Update1)

Then there's another 50-60 trillion in obligations....

Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>> Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>> Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.
>
> Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that
> moved to Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back
> here, eh?
>
> That's what we want...

See 'Tariff'.