Should this trooper be fired?

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:03:48 -0500, "Allen Seth Dunn"
> wrote:

>To Mr. Sternn and DTJ: The killfile is your friend, hint hint. I stopped
>wasting my time with that certain person because it is arguing with a brick
>wall.

Yes but we would lose out on the entertainment value. I could filter
judy, but...

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:37:50 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:

>I
>see good cops as law abiding

Liar.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:53:25 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote:

>>That's OK, there's still lots of polite, conscientious people who's like
>>to have jobs.
>
>Not that job.
>
>It takes a special kind of person to put his life on the line on a
>daily basis, and to put up with all the crap and frustration that
>comes with the job - and, on top of it all, to be paid peanuts for it.
>
>Relatively speaking, there aren't many people like that.

Mostly assholes. :-)

Seriously though, if we actually got rid of the assholes more good
people would apply.

Proof - New Orleans was hiring convicted felons, over half the force
had been jailed for a felony. The FBI threatened to take over under
federal law, the mayor fired half the police, evicted almost everyone
in the academy, and 6 months later they were well on the way to being
a much better organization. Those people would not have applied if
the bad cops remained.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:00:03 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote:

>It is irrelevant how you acquired your prejudice - it is still
>prejudice.
>
>However, if you examine the process through which that prejudice
>developed, you can see how the trooper in question might have
>developed similar prejudices against the public.
>
>Why is hatred and prejudice OK for you but not for him?

He has a gun, and can arrest someone.

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 11:07:59 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote:

>>Irrelevant Scott. If I work a counter selling product to people, and
>>I treat them like ****, I should lose my job.
>
>Ultimately I agree, but I wasn't attempting to address that aspect of
>the issue. Rather, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of expecting
>courtesy and respect from people who you yourself do not treat with
>courtesy and respect.

Fine, it is hypocritical. However, it doesn't matter. A cop MUST
remain a professional no matter what people think or say about him.
He even must remain a professional no matter what people do TO him.
If someone is shooting at him, he should **** em up. If someone is
throwing food at him, he should arrest him but should probably not
injure the person. If someone is fighting him, he should do what is
required to subdue the person AND IMMEDIATELY STOP harming the person
as soon as the person is unable to fight back. It doesn't matter if
his itty bitty feelings were hurt.

>>Now, if the cop made an honest mistake, I would support him EVEN IF HE
>>HAD A HISTORY of bad mistakes. The issue is the behavior in question,
>>not how someone else behaves, nor what he did in the past.
>
>Usually before an employee can be fired for cause, a pattern of
>unprofessional behavior must be documented. Unless you're Donald

Depends on the state. Illinois is an at will work state, and as such
you need not have cause to fire anyone.

>Trump, you can't just tell an employee "you're fired" on impulse
>(unless you want to be sued). You have to give the employee a
>documented opportunity to "straighten up" before you can drop the axe.

Again not necessarily, unless you are considering the lawsuit issue
which has nothing to do with the law. You could be fired in Illinois
for no reason, that is perfectly legal. You could also sue them, but
you could sue them because you don't like their hair color and would
probably win.

>I imagine these requirements are even more stringent in a strong union
>environment such as the FOP. Bottom line, even if his boss wanted to
>fire that trooper, he probably couldn't do it because of the 18 year
>clean record.

Ah unions, different story.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:09:20 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>Oh, here comes the "Code of Silence" cliche again.
>
> Since when is the "Omerta" of the Police Force a cliche?

When it becomes used to describe police activities when there is no evidence
to do so.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Cartlon Shew" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:47:07 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"L Sternn" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 19:10:14 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> IANAL, but anyone can see that either scenario has the potential to
>>>>> result in needless death.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dead is dead, no matter what the law says.
>>>>
>>>>Sure, but death cannot always be prevented no matter what you do.
>>>
>>>
>>> How did Peasley know that he had time to hang up on 2 callers and let
>>> a different dispatcher send help?
>>
>>We don't know that he hadn't already sent it.
>
>
> Where is there ANYTHING to suggest that he had already sent help?

....or that he hadn't.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "jaybird" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>> "jaybird" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>
> There was no harm other than his rudeness and
>>>> there was no foul either.
>>>
>>> Easy for you to say--it wasn't your son who died.
>>
>> No it wasn't, and while that is a tragedy I still stick by my original
>> response which was that I don't believe an 18 year veteran with an
>> unblemished career should be fired for a comment.
>
> I think there are comments that are firing offenses, like racial epithets,
> sexist denigrations, and lying in a report or under oath. But for this,
> no.
>
> Even 15 days is still
>> excessive.
>
> A 2 day rip is about right for this. It goes on his permanent record and
> he'll probably miss a round or 2 of promotions. That should cover it.
>
> The responders were on the way and he made a rude comment.
>> Those are about the only facts we really have.
>
> That set of comments (not just one, mind you) wreaked havoc on the
> feelings of two parents who had just lost their son in an accident. At a
> time like this, you think it's okay if a cop makes nasty comments?

I never said it was okay under any circumstance, even still he had no way of
knowing the person would die.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> "jaybird" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "L Sternn" > wrote in message
>
> Real cop or poser, there are good and
>>> bad cops. I always give cops a chance to show which kind they are
>>> before forming an opinion.
>>
>> I would agree with that. I think that holds true in any profession
>> though. There are doctors we like, and those we don't. Convenience store
>> clerks... any profession has people in it that have different
>> personalities.
>
> Except that convenient store clerks and physicians don't carry badges and
> guns. They aren't allowed to kill people in the line of their work.
> Consequently, cops have to be held to a different standard.

True, but even though it's no excuse, nobody is perfect.

>
> Your
>> definition of good cop or bad cop might be different from mine though. I
>> see good cops as law abiding, professional, honest, and fair. Bad cops
>> to me are criminals who lie, cheat, and steal and who deserve to be in
>> jail. Just because a cop has an attitude about things that differs from
>> mine, I don't automatically call them a bad cop.
>
> How about a cop with racist attitudes who target minorities for offenses
> that they'd ignore from a white person, who takes verbal abuse personally,
> and has a quick temper that affects his judgment in a crisis? You think
> he's a good cop?

Of course not. Some of those things are criminal offenses depending on the
circumstances.

>
>> I'm a bit more defensive in here than usual because I'm about the only
>> one around. People bash cops in here left and right and I just throw out
>> some support now and then.
>
> So do quite a few others. But some cops don't take any criticism well,
> constructive or otherwise.

I agree. I know a few.

>
> There are a lot of angles of the job that I've seen
>> that the average person wouldn't usually be privy to so I can better see
>> some of the issues as understandable. I may sound calloused and harsh
>> sometimes, but such is life at times.
>
> Life is harsh and calloused enough without those with the power of life
> and liberty over citizens abusing their authority.

Again, I agree. No one in this circumstance abused authority though. They
may have been negligent in it, but not abusive.

>
> Take it for what it's worth because I
>> don't always hand out teddy bears and candy canes. )
>
> Courtesy, respect, and dignity--they cost less than candy and toys. Can
> you do that?

Always.

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.

"Scott en Aztlán" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:29:43 GMT, "jaybird" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"The Real Bev" > wrote in message
...
>>> Does anybody know for an actual fact that jaybird is a real live law
>>> enforcement officer? Is it not possible that he's an anti-cop troll? I
>>> know he's certainly decreased MY respect for the average everyday cop.
>>
>>Nope. Nobody knows.
>
> Dangit, I wish Bev had asked that question last week. I would have
> driven over into Texas from Louisiana and gone for that ride-along in
> your squad car.

You're more than welcome anytime. )

--
---
jaybird
---
I am not the cause of your problems.
My actions are the result of your actions.
Your life is not my fault.