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49 Chrysler with no compression



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 30th 07, 01:41 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Nza
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
wrote:
>
> Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
> came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
> fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.



ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.

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  #12  
Old July 30th 07, 06:37 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Steve[_1_]
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Posts: 3,043
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

Nza wrote:

> I recently pulled my uncle's 1949 chrysler Royal out of storage. It
> was sitting for 27 years in the garage... anyway, aside from the
> wiring being totally useless and in need of replacement, the only
> problem i have is the engine has no compression. I have put marvel
> mystery, motor oil, even a little gear oil down the cylinders, but no
> return of the compression.
>
> This has the flathead "spitfire" 6 cylinder engine. It spins over
> freely... way too freely.
>
> Anyone have a method i might not have considered? I'm willing to try
> a lot of things before i pull the engine from the car... i'm hoping to
> at least get it running before I have to do that. The thing only has
> 92,000 original miles on it.
>


Mopar flatheads tend to get very sticky valves when parked for a long
time, and they have pretty light valve springs so the valves may stick
open when you crank the engine after a long period of sitting. You can
drown all the cylinders in marvel mystery oil, rotate the engine by hand
a few times (with the plugs out) and then let it soak on the valve stem
seals for a week or so, then crank it over (still with the plugs out) to
clear the oil and then test compression.

But after 27 years, it could be too much for mystery oil to un-stick,
and it could also be that the rings are completely shot from scraping on
surface-rusted cylinder walls.
  #13  
Old July 30th 07, 06:42 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Steve[_1_]
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Posts: 3,043
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

Bill Putney wrote:

> Nza wrote:
>
>> The thing only has 92,000 original miles on it.

>
>
> Wouldn't that be considered a lot of mile between rebuilds for that
> vintage (materials and motor oils of the day)?


My '49 Plymouth went about 120,000 miles before its first overhaul
(which my granddad had done in 1964 for about $300- and the engine still
runs today after that overhaul). It was still running at the time he
decided to overhaul it- Mopar flaheads were a lot tougher than a number
of contemporaries. The Chevy Stovebolt six was a crappy lawnmower engine
by comparison (splash oiling whereas the Mopar had full pressure), and
the Ford flathead v8s had a lot more problems with overheating and
consequent damage. Its pretty darn hard to wear out a Mopar flathead
from the 40s to the point where it just wont run anymore.

So yes, it may be getting close to overhaul time, but its likely got a
good bit of life left based purely on mileage- certainly enough to fire
up and run. Sitting for 27 years probably did it more harm than the 92k
miles, though.
  #14  
Old July 30th 07, 08:41 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Nza
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

On Jul 30, 1:37 pm, Steve > wrote:
> Nza wrote:
> > I recently pulled my uncle's 1949 chrysler Royal out of storage. It
> > was sitting for 27 years in the garage... anyway, aside from the
> > wiring being totally useless and in need of replacement, the only
> > problem i have is the engine has no compression. I have put marvel
> > mystery, motor oil, even a little gear oil down the cylinders, but no
> > return of the compression.

>
> > This has the flathead "spitfire" 6 cylinder engine. It spins over
> > freely... way too freely.

>
> > Anyone have a method i might not have considered? I'm willing to try
> > a lot of things before i pull the engine from the car... i'm hoping to
> > at least get it running before I have to do that. The thing only has
> > 92,000 original miles on it.

>
> Mopar flatheads tend to get very sticky valves when parked for a long
> time, and they have pretty light valve springs so the valves may stick
> open when you crank the engine after a long period of sitting. You can
> drown all the cylinders in marvel mystery oil, rotate the engine by hand
> a few times (with the plugs out) and then let it soak on the valve stem
> seals for a week or so, then crank it over (still with the plugs out) to
> clear the oil and then test compression.
>
> But after 27 years, it could be too much for mystery oil to un-stick,
> and it could also be that the rings are completely shot from scraping on
> surface-rusted cylinder walls.


yeah, ideally i should have just pulled the motor out and
reconditioned it from the get go. too bad i didn't really realize
what a sweet car it is until a few years ago.

  #15  
Old August 1st 07, 07:26 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Nza
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

On Jul 30, 8:41 am, Nza > wrote:
> On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
> > came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
> > fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.

>
> ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.


Actually, I was reading about the "tip-toe" transmission and how to
shift it.. I think this car may have that dual range thingee after all
instead of the 3 speed..


Drained the coolant today... i pulled out the thermostat and put it in
a pot of 180 degree water and it opened... did it a few times and it
opened more and more until a certain point.. was wondering though if
the thermostat is supposed to close all the way... i'm assuming it
is. When cooled off, this one is not all the way closed.

  #16  
Old August 2nd 07, 12:48 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:26:37 UTC, Nza > wrote:

> On Jul 30, 8:41 am, Nza > wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
> > > came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
> > > fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.

> >
> > ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.

>
> Actually, I was reading about the "tip-toe" transmission and how to
> shift it.. I think this car may have that dual range thingee after all
> instead of the 3 speed..
>
>
> Drained the coolant today... i pulled out the thermostat and put it in
> a pot of 180 degree water and it opened... did it a few times and it
> opened more and more until a certain point.. was wondering though if
> the thermostat is supposed to close all the way... i'm assuming it
> is. When cooled off, this one is not all the way closed.

The Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge had the M6, PrestoMatic, TipToe shift,
four speed, dual range Fluid Drive. The "second" gear position is
Low/Low-High and the "third" gear position is High/Low-High/High.
Almost all of the time you will use the High range. Shifting is
accomplished by slightly lifting your foot off the accelerator at
about 15 or so, hearing a clunk, then pressing on the gas again. You
only need to use the clutch for reverse and starting, although you can
start the car in gear. There is a fill port on the passenger side of
the transmission whereby you remove the plug from the torque converter
to check the fluid, which is really 10 weight oil. Draining and
refilling requires turning the converter with the plug downward and
letting the oil drain, then reversing the procedure. All in all, the
transmission is very good. Make sure that the electrical connections
to the carb are good and that the solenoid and governor on the
transmission case are operating.
As to the thermostat, it should be a 160 degree opening with a
non-pressurized system. I have had no problems with my 49 Windsor or
my 40 Royal.


--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"
  #17  
Old August 2nd 07, 09:16 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Nza
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 70
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

On Aug 2, 7:48 am, > wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:26:37 UTC, Nza > wrote:
> > On Jul 30, 8:41 am, Nza > wrote:
> > > On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
> > > wrote:

>
> > > > Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
> > > > came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
> > > > fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.

>
> > > ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.

>
> > Actually, I was reading about the "tip-toe" transmission and how to
> > shift it.. I think this car may have that dual range thingee after all
> > instead of the 3 speed..

>
> > Drained the coolant today... i pulled out the thermostat and put it in
> > a pot of 180 degree water and it opened... did it a few times and it
> > opened more and more until a certain point.. was wondering though if
> > the thermostat is supposed to close all the way... i'm assuming it
> > is. When cooled off, this one is not all the way closed.

>
> The Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge had the M6, PrestoMatic, TipToe shift,
> four speed, dual range Fluid Drive. The "second" gear position is
> Low/Low-High and the "third" gear position is High/Low-High/High.
> Almost all of the time you will use the High range. Shifting is
> accomplished by slightly lifting your foot off the accelerator at
> about 15 or so, hearing a clunk, then pressing on the gas again. You
> only need to use the clutch for reverse and starting, although you can
> start the car in gear. There is a fill port on the passenger side of
> the transmission whereby you remove the plug from the torque converter
> to check the fluid, which is really 10 weight oil. Draining and
> refilling requires turning the converter with the plug downward and
> letting the oil drain, then reversing the procedure. All in all, the
> transmission is very good. Make sure that the electrical connections
> to the carb are good and that the solenoid and governor on the
> transmission case are operating.
> As to the thermostat, it should be a 160 degree opening with a
> non-pressurized system. I have had no problems with my 49 Windsor or
> my 40 Royal.


As always, thanks for the information! I'm flying blind on this one,
pretty much.. except for you guys and a 1957 version of the Motor's
manual..

So basically there are only four positions for the gear selector...
reverse, neutral, high-range, low-range... If I understand
correctly, most of the time i'll just slap it into high range and
leave it there and use the high and low for around town-type stuff..

The thermostat has a "180" stamped into the end of the plunger. I
verified the temp. of the water when the thermostat opened with a
digital thermometer.... but like i said, it still doesn't close all
the way. So, i'll probably need a new one. Someone at some point put
a 4 psi rad. cap on it, so i guess i'll need to change that as well.

Okay, here's a question i've been wanting to ask for a while, but kept
forgetting.. My battery charger is either 12V or 6V... so what should
i use to charge the 8V battery? Was thinking I need to put some sort
of resistor in-line with it to drop the voltage and set the charger on
12V.. don't want to start a fire though, so suggestions will gladly
be accepted.

Thanks in advance!

  #18  
Old August 2nd 07, 10:57 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Bill Putney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,410
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

Nza wrote:

> Okay, here's a question i've been wanting to ask for a while, but kept
> forgetting.. My battery charger is either 12V or 6V... so what should
> i use to charge the 8V battery? Was thinking I need to put some sort
> of resistor in-line with it to drop the voltage and set the charger on
> 12V.. don't want to start a fire though, so suggestions will gladly
> be accepted.
>
> Thanks in advance!


A resistor of the right value could work - just make sure it can handle
the heat (worst-case amperage of your charger x the voltgage drop across
it).

However - I might be more inclined to use several power diodes in series
instead because they tend to give a more constant, less
current-dependent, voltage drop. Experiment a little. Measure the
charger's voltage output charging a 12 volt battery, then try different
numbers of diodes in series (assume somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.6
to 1.1 volt drop per diode) on the 8 volt battery to see what gives you
close to a 4 volt total drop (or a reasonable charging current - 10 amps
or less at start of charge). Again, consider the power (actually, in
this case, current) rating of the diodes - probably use a stud-mounted
rectifier from Radio Shack - probably will be dissipating 7 to 10 watts
each - might need to heat sink them.

Other possibilities: Do you have a variable power supply with current
meter on the front panel? Adjust the voltage output for a reasonable
current (again, 10 amps or less initially) into the battery (monitor it
and adjust as necessary as the charge progresses).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')
  #19  
Old August 2nd 07, 11:05 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Steve[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,043
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression

Nza wrote:
> On Aug 2, 7:48 am, > wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:26:37 UTC, Nza > wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 30, 8:41 am, Nza > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
>>>>wrote:

>>
>>>>>Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
>>>>>came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
>>>>>fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.

>>
>>>>ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.

>>
>>>Actually, I was reading about the "tip-toe" transmission and how to
>>>shift it.. I think this car may have that dual range thingee after all
>>>instead of the 3 speed..

>>
>>>Drained the coolant today... i pulled out the thermostat and put it in
>>>a pot of 180 degree water and it opened... did it a few times and it
>>>opened more and more until a certain point.. was wondering though if
>>>the thermostat is supposed to close all the way... i'm assuming it
>>>is. When cooled off, this one is not all the way closed.

>>
>>The Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge had the M6, PrestoMatic, TipToe shift,
>>four speed, dual range Fluid Drive. The "second" gear position is
>>Low/Low-High and the "third" gear position is High/Low-High/High.
>>Almost all of the time you will use the High range. Shifting is
>>accomplished by slightly lifting your foot off the accelerator at
>>about 15 or so, hearing a clunk, then pressing on the gas again. You
>>only need to use the clutch for reverse and starting, although you can
>>start the car in gear. There is a fill port on the passenger side of
>>the transmission whereby you remove the plug from the torque converter
>>to check the fluid, which is really 10 weight oil. Draining and
>>refilling requires turning the converter with the plug downward and
>>letting the oil drain, then reversing the procedure. All in all, the
>>transmission is very good. Make sure that the electrical connections
>>to the carb are good and that the solenoid and governor on the
>>transmission case are operating.
>>As to the thermostat, it should be a 160 degree opening with a
>>non-pressurized system. I have had no problems with my 49 Windsor or
>>my 40 Royal.

>
>
> As always, thanks for the information! I'm flying blind on this one,
> pretty much.. except for you guys and a 1957 version of the Motor's
> manual..
>
> So basically there are only four positions for the gear selector...
> reverse, neutral, high-range, low-range... If I understand
> correctly, most of the time i'll just slap it into high range and
> leave it there and use the high and low for around town-type stuff..
>
> The thermostat has a "180" stamped into the end of the plunger. I
> verified the temp. of the water when the thermostat opened with a
> digital thermometer.... but like i said, it still doesn't close all
> the way. So, i'll probably need a new one. Someone at some point put
> a 4 psi rad. cap on it, so i guess i'll need to change that as well.


I think 4 PSI caps were fairly common in that era, that's what I've
always had on my '49 Plymouth. However, after blowing a freeze plug a
couple of times I started running it unpressurized with no problems
whatsoever. You will need a 160 degree thermostat to run unpressurized,
though, you'll likely have a problem with "burping" coolant if you run
that 180 degree stat.
  #20  
Old August 5th 07, 06:28 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
Joe[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 298
Default 49 Chrysler with no compression


> wrote in message
news:Pp7TT5WKBvRn-pn2-KBDUvdgcUv83@localhost...
> On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 18:26:37 UTC, Nza > wrote:
>
>> On Jul 30, 8:41 am, Nza > wrote:
>> > On Jul 29, 9:15 pm, >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Yes, I have done that with my 49 Windsor and 40 Royal. FluidDrive
>> > > came in two different varieties, a regular 3 speed transmission with
>> > > fluid drive, and the M4/M6 dual range fluid drive.
>> >
>> > ok! I'm pretty sure this one just has the 3-speed w/ fluid drive.

>>
>> Actually, I was reading about the "tip-toe" transmission and how to
>> shift it.. I think this car may have that dual range thingee after all
>> instead of the 3 speed..
>>
>>
>> Drained the coolant today... i pulled out the thermostat and put it in
>> a pot of 180 degree water and it opened... did it a few times and it
>> opened more and more until a certain point.. was wondering though if
>> the thermostat is supposed to close all the way... i'm assuming it
>> is. When cooled off, this one is not all the way closed.

> The Chrysler, DeSoto and Dodge had the M6, PrestoMatic, TipToe shift,
> four speed, dual range Fluid Drive. The "second" gear position is
> Low/Low-High and the "third" gear position is High/Low-High/High.
> Almost all of the time you will use the High range. Shifting is
> accomplished by slightly lifting your foot off the accelerator at
> about 15 or so, hearing a clunk, then pressing on the gas again. You
> only need to use the clutch for reverse and starting, although you can
> start the car in gear. There is a fill port on the passenger side of
> the transmission whereby you remove the plug from the torque converter
> to check the fluid, which is really 10 weight oil. Draining and
> refilling requires turning the converter with the plug downward and
> letting the oil drain, then reversing the procedure. All in all, the
> transmission is very good. Make sure that the electrical connections
> to the carb are good and that the solenoid and governor on the
> transmission case are operating.
> As to the thermostat, it should be a 160 degree opening with a
> non-pressurized system. I have had no problems with my 49 Windsor or
> my 40 Royal.
>

I always wanted to drive one of those cars. Sounds interesting.


 




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