GPL and 100% detail bias...

I've recently upgraded my system to finally achieve that magic 36fps
at the back of the grid with 100% detail bias... but there's a rather
nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
noticed this after changing to an Ati card (and thus to D3D).

Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure?
--
- Jussi Koukku -

Jussi Koukku schrieb:
> I've recently upgraded my system to finally achieve that magic 36fps
> at the back of the grid with 100% detail bias... but there's a rather
> nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
> after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
> disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
> noticed this after changing to an Ati card (and thus to D3D).
>
> Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure?
> --
> - Jussi Koukku -
I use 99% with my ATI 9700, no problems.

Don't know, but I think we've reached the limits of Dx7. It's probable that
Dx7 is only capable of so many polys'. I think everyone with powerful
systems gets this. The difference between about 80% and 100% detail bias is
very small and therefore quite acceptable to me. It only really affects the
more distant objects. I have a ATI Radeon 9800Pro and P4-3.2 + 1Gb matched
DDR400 ram, and GPL is fine all but this very small problem.

Now if GPL was Dx9,

Alan

"Michael Ziegler" > wrote in message
...
> Jussi Koukku schrieb:
>> I've recently upgraded my system to finally achieve that magic 36fps
>> at the back of the grid with 100% detail bias... but there's a rather
>> nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
>> after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
>> disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
>> noticed this after changing to an Ati card (and thus to D3D).
>>
>> Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure?
>> --
>> - Jussi Koukku -
> I use 99% with my ATI 9700, no problems.

"Rand Al'Thor" > wrote in message
...
> Don't know, but I think we've reached the limits of Dx7. It's probable
that
> Dx7 is only capable of so many polys'. I think everyone with powerful
> systems gets this. The difference between about 80% and 100% detail
bias is
> very small and therefore quite acceptable to me. It only really
affects the
> more distant objects. I have a ATI Radeon 9800Pro and P4-3.2 + 1Gb
matched
> DDR400 ram, and GPL is fine all but this very small problem.
>
> Now if GPL was Dx9,

AFAIK you are right, it's a poly limit with DirectX but OpenGL doesn't
have the same limitation (or maybe just not yet).

99% detail bias should fix the problem, but cars in the distance visibly
change from 2D to 3D which some find irritating. Probably not as
irritating as a transparent grid though ;-)

Alternatively use earlier versions of some the GPLEA cars (with a lower
poly count), but 99% bias is probably the simplest solution.

Malc.




> "Michael Ziegler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jussi Koukku schrieb:
> >> I've recently upgraded my system to finally achieve that magic
36fps
> >> at the back of the grid with 100% detail bias... but there's a
rather
> >> nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a
second
> >> after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
> >> disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I
only
> >> noticed this after changing to an Ati card (and thus to D3D).
> >>
> >> Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure?
> >> --
> >> - Jussi Koukku -
> > I use 99% with my ATI 9700, no problems.
>
>

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:18:31 GMT, Jussi Koukku > wrote:

>I've recently upgraded my system to finally achieve that magic 36fps
>at the back of the grid with 100% detail bias... but there's a rather
>nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
>after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
>disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
>noticed this after changing to an Ati card (and thus to D3D).
>
>Has anyone else noticed this? Is there a cure?

The problem is that the Z-axis buffer is 16 bit, and thus doesn't
support more then 32000 polygons. There are 2 "solutions".

First, dissable the Z-axis in the CORE.INI. This will reduce
performance.

Second, use OpenGL instead.


Cheers!

Remco

An informative thread as ever in this community, so again RAS is a MUST
read, also after 6 years GPL

Rolf

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:09:34 GMT, (Remco
Moedt) wrote something like:

>On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:18:31 GMT, Jussi Koukku > wrote:
>
>>nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
>>after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
>>disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
>
>The problem is that the Z-axis buffer is 16 bit, and thus doesn't
>support more then 32000 polygons. There are 2 "solutions".
>
>First, dissable the Z-axis in the CORE.INI. This will reduce
>performance.
>
>Second, use OpenGL instead.

Thanks for the info. I will try disabling the Z-axis... does it affect
image quality?

OpenGL isn't really a choice with Ati cards, so if the Z-axis thing
doesn't work, I guess I'll just avoid running with full grid
--
- Jussi Koukku -

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:07:59 GMT, Jussi Koukku > wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:09:34 GMT, (Remco
>Moedt) wrote something like:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 07:18:31 GMT, Jussi Koukku > wrote:
>>
>>>nasty side effect: the cars are partly transparent for about a second
>>>after the flag drops. If I reduce the detail bias the effect
>>>disappears. And this seems to be a D3D and/or Ati problem, as I only
>>
>>The problem is that the Z-axis buffer is 16 bit, and thus doesn't
>>support more then 32000 polygons. There are 2 "solutions".
>>
>>First, dissable the Z-axis in the CORE.INI. This will reduce
>>performance.
>>
>>Second, use OpenGL instead.
>
>Thanks for the info. I will try disabling the Z-axis... does it affect
>image quality?

NO, just performance. The Z-axis buffer is used to sort the polygons.
Those are drawn nearest last. So, if 32000 and a bit polygons are
drawn, it stops. That's why you see the holes in the cars. If you put
the slider to the left, less polygons will be drawn, thus no more
holes.


Cheers!


Remco

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:09:47 GMT, (Remco
Moedt) wrote something like:

>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:07:59 GMT, Jussi Koukku > wrote:
>
>>Thanks for the info. I will try disabling the Z-axis... does it affect
>>image quality?
>
>NO, just performance. The Z-axis buffer is used to sort the polygons.
>Those are drawn nearest last. So, if 32000 and a bit polygons are
>drawn, it stops. That's why you see the holes in the cars. If you put
>the slider to the left, less polygons will be drawn, thus no more
>holes.

Ok, I tried disabling Z-buffer, but the fps dropped to about 22. I
also noticed that max polygon count isn't reached on all tracks.
Haven't tried that many tracks with full grid, but so far only Monaco
(Monaco Rocks addons) seems to have this problem.
--
- Jussi Koukku -

"Jussi Koukku" > wrote in message
...


> I'm certainly not going to keep z-buffer disabled, 22fps is far from
> acceptable. 99% detail bias is also unacceptable cause my rig can
> easily handle 100%. Plus it's very much noticeable.

Except you are clearly saying it cannot ;-)

Solution #4: Throw money at your PC. Get an nVidia 5900XT or 6800GT or
something, and use OpenGL.

I run gpl at 1600x1200 with 8xAniso, 100% detail & so on & get about
32fps at the back of a full gplea grid (about 30 at Monaco with the
rocks update), and 36 fps everywhere else. No transparent cars, lovely.
Don't really need AA at 1600x1200 but the card has the power to use it
online & hotlapping so I do. I'm rarely at the back of a full grid of AI
but I often watch server replays with full grids.

Problem solved ;-)

Malc.