How bad is it, in the grand scheme of things, to install a directionaltire the wrong way?

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Question in subject line...
>
> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have the
> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat RFT -
> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>
> nate

I probably have about 800 miles on my mini spare, 06 Kia original.
No real wear to speak of.
I know that it can go for at least 130 miles at 50-70 mph in Texas
heat with no problem. I have 3 different brand tires on my car.
Tires don't last long for me. Every little town has tires.
Maybe not the exact size and new, but they are usable.

On 05/13/2013 02:17 PM, gpsman wrote:
> On May 13, 11:14 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
>>> On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>
>>>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
>>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
>>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>
>>> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
>>> miles, for some reason...
>>
>> It's unlikely on a regular tire.
>
> Exactly, Socrates.
>
>> It becomes more likely on a donut spare.
>
> Really? How did you measure that?

I didn't - I read the big warning sticker right on the steel wheel to
which it's mounted, directing one to limit speed to 50 MPH, and also the
warnings everywhere directing one to limit use of a temporary (donut)
spare to 50 miles max.

Clearly, there are only two reasons why this would be. 1) the tire will
be worn out and unsafe if those limits are significantly exceeded and/or
2) the vehicle mfgrs. are worried about wear to the spider gears and/or
LSD clutches (if so equipped.)

Neither one of those sounds like a Good Thing nor practical if it is
likely that one might need to travel farther/faster than that before it
is convenient to have the flat tire replaced.

>
>>> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
>>> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
>>> rather than later.
>>
>> ??? you make no sense.
>>
>> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
>> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires.
>
> Why wait? You live in a densely populated area, must be some nitwit
> cruising CL looking for the exact tires you don't like.

Possibly, but it's a hassle and expense that's fairly unnecessary. And
the RFTs actually aren't *awful* to drive on; it's just that I consider
15K mile tread life to be laughable and pretty much everyone who's
ditched them for something like Michelin Pilot Super Sports (seems to be
the current recommendation for my car) praises the Michelins as an
improvement in every regard.

>
>> That's what most
>> people do.
>
> Really? How did you learn -this- tidbit you purport to know?
>
>>> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
>>
>> At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
>> roadside assistance. I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
>> in control of my destiny.
>
> Lol. You're probably the only person for whom run-flat tires would
> create such paranoia and complicated preparations for a flat that is
> unlikely to begin with.

Paranoia? Complicated preparations? Hardly, finding a "good used"
wheel and tire is not incredibly difficult.

My question was really how aggressively should I be pursuing this given
that the tires that I already own are directional. No more, no less.
You're clearly making a mountain out of a molehill; I'm already mostly
prepared for a flat and have spent more time replying to the inanity in
this thread than I have actively worrying about my tires.

Look at it this way - let's say that you are looking to hire an
employee, and two candidates are traveling from a decent distance away
for interviews. Both candidates have flat tires on the way. Candidate
#1 calls you an hour or so before his scheduled interview and says "Sir,
this is Candidate #1. I unfortunately have had a flat tire on my way to
our interview and while I thought that I'd left myself a little extra
time to get to your office I may be five or ten minutes late. I
appreciate how valuable your time is and will do my best not to be late
but just thought I should give you a call in case it is unavoidable. I
will be there just as soon as I can and appreciate your time and
consideration." Candidate #2, however, is waiting for AAA or whoever
the manufacturer of his car decides to send... and doesn't know *when*
he'll be able to get back on the road again, but will likely have to
wait at least an hour or so for a tow truck to even show up.

Which candidate do you think is more likely to get the job, all other
factors being equal? I don't know anyone in the world who would
consider the person who was prepared for reasonably forseeable incidents
to be the less desirable candidate!

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 05/13/2013 08:14 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
>> On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>
>>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>>
>> I understand where you're coming from, you bought a rig you can't
>> afford to drive.
>
> I'm interested to hear how you came to that conclusion.
>
> No, wait, I'm really not.
>
>>
>>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>
>> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
>> miles, for some reason...
>
> It's unlikely on a regular tire. It becomes more likely on a donut spare.
>
>> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
>> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
>> rather than later.
>
> ??? you make no sense.
>
> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires. That's what most
> people do.
>
>> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
>
> At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
> roadside assistance.

retarded nonsense. bmw and mini drivers of either sex /have/ to rely on
roadside assistance - those vehicles typically do NOT have spare wheels.


> I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
> in control of my destiny.
>
> nate
>
>


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 12:52 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Question in subject line...
>>
>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have the
>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat RFT
>> - so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>
>> nate
>
> I probably have about 800 miles on my mini spare, 06 Kia original.
> No real wear to speak of.
> I know that it can go for at least 130 miles at 50-70 mph in Texas
> heat with no problem. I have 3 different brand tires on my car.
> Tires don't last long for me. Every little town has tires.
> Maybe not the exact size and new, but they are usable.

don't tell nate - he'll get his panties all knotted fretting about the
big yellow manufacturer disclaimer wearing out his diff.


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 08:07 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 10:50 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 04:55 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> On 05/13/2013 04:35 AM, AD wrote:
>>>> On May 11, 5:59 am, jim beam > wrote:
>>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> reason for asking is this. My car did not come from the factory
>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. The factory tires are
>>>>>>>> run-flats,
>>>>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better
>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>> out there. Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>>>>> run-flats.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat
>>>>>>>> RFT -
>>>>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and
>>>>>>>> tires
>>>>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space
>>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc.
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. Before
>>>>>>>> winter,
>>>>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable
>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>> tire. My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if
>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
>>>>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are
>>>>>>>> directional, so
>>>>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I
>>>>>>>> do get
>>>>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the
>>>>>>>> wrong way
>>>>>>>> on the wheel. I understand that traction will be compromised
>>>>>>>> somewhat,
>>>>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as
>>>>>>>> quickly as
>>>>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires,
>>>>>>>> because I
>>>>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls My
>>>>>>>> gut
>>>>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if
>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nate
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be
>>>>>>> compensated
>>>>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. Some years
>>>>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
>>>>>>> tires. They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same
>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. Turned out it didn't
>>>>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. If I
>>>>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. Odds are
>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. The only reason not to would be
>>>>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. You'd have the same problem
>>>>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the
>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
>>>>>>> on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of
>>>>>> use. My
>>>>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be
>>>>>> bad. I
>>>>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>>>>
>>>>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! "50 miles" is
>>>>> what's
>>>>> recommended. reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
>>>>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that
>>>>> you
>>>>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>>>>
>>>> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
>>>> pressure might not last those 50 miles.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
>>>> torque bind in the center diff.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
>>>> amarok automatic, etc
>>>> takes that kind of torture.
>>>>
>>>> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
>>>> be fine for more than 50 miles.
>>>> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
>>>> and crawl at 55mph?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>>
>> /you/ don't understand where you're coming from, so trying to say
>> someone else does is simply wishful thinking as you clutch for attention
>> straws.
>
> Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't mean nobody
> else does.

YOU don't understand what you're reading, let alone saying. other
people's comprehension of your blatherings is a statistical crapshoot.


>
>>
>>
>>> Let's say I'm
>>> in the middle of a drive from DC to Pittsburgh and somewhere in rural MD
>>> or WV one of my tires goes. Do I get a hotel room and wait for someone
>>> to ship me a new tire (since they're probably not stocked) or maybe pay
>>> $300+ for a tire that's the right size but a different brand or model so
>>> is not a really good solution and also hope that the local place has a
>>> tire machine with soft pads on it so I don't get big spike marks on the
>>> barrels of my wheels?
>>
>> um, if you've just had a high speed blow-out, you're going to be bumping
>> the rim anyway retard. at that point, you're already damaged and all
>> you want to do is get repaired and get out of there.
>
> I've never had a "high speed blow out" but I did have a tire go flat on
> me once quite rapidly and at highway speed (as in, it was fine when I
> left but was completely flat by the time I pulled over to the side of
> the road, but there was no dramatic "BANG" or obvious hole in the tire.)
> The rim was fine. It was at the time considered a low profile tire,
> too. (Today it would probably be considered laughably skinny and the
> sidewalls fat - I *think* it was a 195/50-15 - but for the car it was on
> it was actually a "plus two" fitment.) Not a run-flat - not sure if
> they'd even been introduced yet.

so as usual, you're blathering about the hypothetical and have no
experience. if you had ever been to a big metropolitan area with
bridges where you are NOT ALLOWED to stop, a mile [or more] down the
road, your rim will most definitely be damaged. as is typically the
case with slow freeway flats where the driver doesn't know until the
tread separates and the noise of the rim clanking becomes apparent.


>
>
>> besides, it's highly disingenuous to say that a rural tire shop can't do
>> a good job. half the time, they're much more invested in good service
>> for their community than townie ass-holes who do a bad job knowing
>> they'll never see you again.
>
> Never said that they couldn't.

yes you did - you said they wouldn't have a machine with "soft pads on
it so I don't get big spike marks on the barrels of my wheels".


> But it would be silly for them to stock
> a full selection of low-profile, high-performance tires on the off
> chance that someone came through wanting one. More likely they will
> stock a couple very common brands and models and if someone wants
> something else they'll order it from a warehouse somewhere. If I'm
> traveling, that does me no good at all, unless I'm willing to accept the
> delay.

your [alleged] vehicle manufacturer doesn't even /provide/ a spare on
most of their models, so it's just the price you pay for buying into the
"ultimate marketing machine" brainwash.


> Also, *most* tire changers do not have soft pads but use metal
> clamping jaws with spikes in them,

no spikes retard - you've clearly never seen a tire changer.


> it pays to seek out a shop that has
> one or another type of tire machine that doesn't damage the barrels (if
> you care about such things, and I do.) For steel rims, fixing the
> damage caused by such a machine is irrelevant, Krylon covers all and you
> can't see the barrels of the wheels anyway. If you have nice alloys and
> want to keep them in top shape, that's *not* acceptable.

blathering retarded nonsense about something that doesn't exist.


>
>>> Or do I just bolt on the spare and keep on
>>> truckin' and order the new tire to be shipped to me somewhere that it's
>>> actually convenient for me to get it done, with no loss of time on the
>>> trip other than the actual changing of the tire at the side of the road?
>>> Sure I'm giving up a couple inches of depth of the trunk, but Jim is
>>> right about one thing, I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat,
>>
>> unspeakable retard - having a second flat is NOTHING to do with ANY kind
>> of spare.
>
> You don't think that keeping a tire in service for 2x or more its rated
> lifespan (e.g. driving 100 miles on a donut spare recommended for use of
> 50 miles) doesn't introduce a greater than normal risk of failure?

you're talking out of your ass nate. as usual. compact spares work
just fine and last many thousands of miles. their primary limitation is
their impact on vehicle performance and thus safety. nothing else.


>
>>> this time stopping me dead,
>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to
>>
>> yeah, carry FOUR spare wheels! but why stop at just 4? retard.
>
> Sorry, I can't respond intelligently to nonsense.

you can't even read intelligently, let alone respond.


>
>>> - when
>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>>
>>> I don't have AWD so that is not a concern, but is also another good
>>> point!
>>
>> not if you'[re carrying a set of spare wheels...
>
> Your fuel mileage must suck.

either you're being deliberately disingenuous or you need to learn to read.


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 01:14 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 02:17 PM, gpsman wrote:
>> On May 13, 11:14 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>> On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
>>>> On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
>>>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to -
>>>>> when
>>>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel
>>>>> tens of
>>>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>>
>>>> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
>>>> miles, for some reason...
>>>
>>> It's unlikely on a regular tire.
>>
>> Exactly, Socrates.
>>
>>> It becomes more likely on a donut spare.
>>
>> Really? How did you measure that?
>
> I didn't - I read the big warning sticker right on the steel wheel to
> which it's mounted, directing one to limit speed to 50 MPH, and also the
> warnings everywhere directing one to limit use of a temporary (donut)
> spare to 50 miles max.
>
> Clearly, there are only two reasons why this would be. 1) the tire will
> be worn out and unsafe if those limits are significantly exceeded and/or
> 2) the vehicle mfgrs. are worried about wear to the spider gears and/or
> LSD clutches (if so equipped.)

then clearly you're a complete ****ing illiterate retard that DISGRACES
the whole engineering profession. the reason for the speed/distance
restriction is the wheels' effect on car handling. for the purposes of
legal liability, if you mandate a speed/distance limit, you reduce the
usage and thus the probability of accident due to the impaired
performance of that wheel. if the trans falls apart just because the
diff has to work, then it would fall apart going around corners. and
cars with friction lsd's use the SAME DIAMETER donut wheel. retard.


>
> Neither one of those sounds like a Good Thing nor practical if it is
> likely that one might need to travel farther/faster than that before it
> is convenient to have the flat tire replaced.

as people do anyway, retard. but with the honking great label on it, if
anything goes wrong it's the driver's fault, not the manufacturer's.


>
>>
>>>> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
>>>> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
>>>> rather than later.
>>>
>>> ??? you make no sense.
>>>
>>> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
>>> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires.
>>
>> Why wait? You live in a densely populated area, must be some nitwit
>> cruising CL looking for the exact tires you don't like.
>
> Possibly, but it's a hassle and expense that's fairly unnecessary.

but mot as much as having the wrong tires, retard.


> And
> the RFTs actually aren't *awful* to drive on; it's just that I consider
> 15K mile tread life to be laughable and pretty much everyone who's
> ditched them for something like Michelin Pilot Super Sports (seems to be
> the current recommendation for my car) praises the Michelins as an
> improvement in every regard.

as always, you have no experience but you have an opinion. simply
ridiculous.


>
>>
>>> That's what most
>>> people do.
>>
>> Really? How did you learn -this- tidbit you purport to know?
>>
>>>> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
>>>
>>> At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
>>> roadside assistance. I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
>>> in control of my destiny.
>>
>> Lol. You're probably the only person for whom run-flat tires would
>> create such paranoia and complicated preparations for a flat that is
>> unlikely to begin with.
>
> Paranoia? Complicated preparations? Hardly, finding a "good used"
> wheel and tire is not incredibly difficult.

???? so i'd love a good used wheel for my 968. got a couple you can
loan me? one front and one rear will do.


>
> My question was really how aggressively should I be pursuing this given
> that the tires that I already own are directional. No more, no less.
> You're clearly making a mountain out of a molehill;

???? you're the one bleating about the whole damned thing. the rest of
us would simply do what normal people would do - use the spare wheel [if
the vehicle even has one, and most bmw's don't] and change it again when
you got the original tire fixed/replaced.


> I'm already mostly
> prepared for a flat and have spent more time replying to the inanity in
> this thread than I have actively worrying about my tires.

lying turd. bmw's "preparation" for a flat is a can of fix-a-flat and a
1-800 rescue number. you'd know this is you actually owned one.


>
> Look at it this way - let's say that you are looking to hire an
> employee, and two candidates are traveling from a decent distance away
> for interviews. Both candidates have flat tires on the way. Candidate
> #1 calls you an hour or so before his scheduled interview and says "Sir,
> this is Candidate #1. I unfortunately have had a flat tire on my way to
> our interview and while I thought that I'd left myself a little extra
> time to get to your office I may be five or ten minutes late. I
> appreciate how valuable your time is and will do my best not to be late
> but just thought I should give you a call in case it is unavoidable. I
> will be there just as soon as I can and appreciate your time and
> consideration." Candidate #2, however, is waiting for AAA or whoever
> the manufacturer of his car decides to send... and doesn't know *when*
> he'll be able to get back on the road again, but will likely have to
> wait at least an hour or so for a tow truck to even show up.
>
> Which candidate do you think is more likely to get the job, all other
> factors being equal? I don't know anyone in the world who would
> consider the person who was prepared for reasonably forseeable incidents
> to be the less desirable candidate!

why don't you call two hours before you leave the house to say your
alarm clock has just performed as planned, but there's a chance you
might cut yourself shaving? what a retard.

bottom line, any lick-spittle that called me an hour ahead of schedule
and blew smoke up my ass with all that "sir" servitude would be told to
turn around and not bother coming in.


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 09:02 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 01:14 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 02:17 PM, gpsman wrote:
>>> On May 13, 11:14 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>> On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
>>>>> On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>>>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me
>>>>>> dead,
>>>>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to -
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel
>>>>>> tens of
>>>>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>>>
>>>>> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
>>>>> miles, for some reason...
>>>>
>>>> It's unlikely on a regular tire.
>>>
>>> Exactly, Socrates.
>>>
>>>> It becomes more likely on a donut spare.
>>>
>>> Really? How did you measure that?
>>
>> I didn't - I read the big warning sticker right on the steel wheel to
>> which it's mounted, directing one to limit speed to 50 MPH, and also the
>> warnings everywhere directing one to limit use of a temporary (donut)
>> spare to 50 miles max.
>>
>> Clearly, there are only two reasons why this would be. 1) the tire will
>> be worn out and unsafe if those limits are significantly exceeded and/or
>> 2) the vehicle mfgrs. are worried about wear to the spider gears and/or
>> LSD clutches (if so equipped.)
>
> then clearly you're a complete ****ing illiterate retard that DISGRACES
> the whole engineering profession. the reason for the speed/distance
> restriction is the wheels' effect on car handling. for the purposes of
> legal liability, if you mandate a speed/distance limit, you reduce the
> usage and thus the probability of accident due to the impaired
> performance of that wheel. if the trans falls apart just because the
> diff has to work, then it would fall apart going around corners. and
> cars with friction lsd's use the SAME DIAMETER donut wheel. retard.

And clearly, you spend hundreds of miles or more never hitting a
straightaway? I'm skeptical that driving hundreds of miles on a donut
spare isn't just as hard if not harder on a diff than the same distance
at a track day.

>
>>
>> Neither one of those sounds like a Good Thing nor practical if it is
>> likely that one might need to travel farther/faster than that before it
>> is convenient to have the flat tire replaced.
>
> as people do anyway, retard. but with the honking great label on it, if
> anything goes wrong it's the driver's fault, not the manufacturer's.
>

Another good reason to carry a full sized spare!

>>
>>>
>>>>> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
>>>>> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
>>>>> rather than later.
>>>>
>>>> ??? you make no sense.
>>>>
>>>> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
>>>> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires.
>>>
>>> Why wait? You live in a densely populated area, must be some nitwit
>>> cruising CL looking for the exact tires you don't like.
>>
>> Possibly, but it's a hassle and expense that's fairly unnecessary.
>
> but mot as much as having the wrong tires, retard.

So what *are* the right tires then? The ones the manufacturer specified?


>
>> And
>> the RFTs actually aren't *awful* to drive on; it's just that I consider
>> 15K mile tread life to be laughable and pretty much everyone who's
>> ditched them for something like Michelin Pilot Super Sports (seems to be
>> the current recommendation for my car) praises the Michelins as an
>> improvement in every regard.
>
> as always, you have no experience but you have an opinion. simply
> ridiculous.

No, other people have experience and opinions. I talk to them and make
my decisions based on their experiences.

Do you really test drive multiple brands of tires before choosing your
next set? You've got way too much time on your hands, if so.

>
>>
>>>
>>>> That's what most
>>>> people do.
>>>
>>> Really? How did you learn -this- tidbit you purport to know?
>>>
>>>>> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
>>>>
>>>> At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
>>>> roadside assistance. I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
>>>> in control of my destiny.
>>>
>>> Lol. You're probably the only person for whom run-flat tires would
>>> create such paranoia and complicated preparations for a flat that is
>>> unlikely to begin with.
>>
>> Paranoia? Complicated preparations? Hardly, finding a "good used"
>> wheel and tire is not incredibly difficult.
>
> ???? so i'd love a good used wheel for my 968. got a couple you can
> loan me? one front and one rear will do.

You've got a 968 like I've got an F40.

>
>>
>> My question was really how aggressively should I be pursuing this given
>> that the tires that I already own are directional. No more, no less.
>> You're clearly making a mountain out of a molehill;
>
> ???? you're the one bleating about the whole damned thing. the rest of
> us would simply do what normal people would do - use the spare wheel [if
> the vehicle even has one, and most bmw's don't] and change it again when
> you got the original tire fixed/replaced.

That's *exactly* what I was going to do, except instead of using the
pathetic little donut, I was going to get the smallest full size
wheel/tire option that would fit over my brakes and use that instead.
Seems like a good idea, no? At a cost of a little over 2" of trunk
depth and a couple pounds of weight - seems a reasonable sacrifice. Or,
*if* it is not too unsafe, I can actually defer the exercise until the
fall as my winter tires fit that description perfectly, except they're
directional - hence my original question.

>
>
>> I'm already mostly
>> prepared for a flat and have spent more time replying to the inanity in
>> this thread than I have actively worrying about my tires.
>
> lying turd. bmw's "preparation" for a flat is a can of fix-a-flat and a
> 1-800 rescue number. you'd know this is you actually owned one.
>

They don't even give you the fix-a-flat unless it's an M3. Fortunately
there's this big empty space between the rear seat and the rear bumper.
It even has D-rings for tie down straps. It's almost like they
expected you to carry stuff in there.

It's just too bad that nobody has ever added anything to their car ever
that didn't come with it from the factory or was sold as a
manufacturer-approved accessory, because on the face of it it seems like
an awful good idea.

>
>>
>> Look at it this way - let's say that you are looking to hire an
>> employee, and two candidates are traveling from a decent distance away
>> for interviews. Both candidates have flat tires on the way. Candidate
>> #1 calls you an hour or so before his scheduled interview and says "Sir,
>> this is Candidate #1. I unfortunately have had a flat tire on my way to
>> our interview and while I thought that I'd left myself a little extra
>> time to get to your office I may be five or ten minutes late. I
>> appreciate how valuable your time is and will do my best not to be late
>> but just thought I should give you a call in case it is unavoidable. I
>> will be there just as soon as I can and appreciate your time and
>> consideration." Candidate #2, however, is waiting for AAA or whoever
>> the manufacturer of his car decides to send... and doesn't know *when*
>> he'll be able to get back on the road again, but will likely have to
>> wait at least an hour or so for a tow truck to even show up.
>>
>> Which candidate do you think is more likely to get the job, all other
>> factors being equal? I don't know anyone in the world who would
>> consider the person who was prepared for reasonably forseeable incidents
>> to be the less desirable candidate!
>
> why don't you call two hours before you leave the house to say your
> alarm clock has just performed as planned, but there's a chance you
> might cut yourself shaving? what a retard.
>
> bottom line, any lick-spittle that called me an hour ahead of schedule
> and blew smoke up my ass with all that "sir" servitude would be told to
> turn around and not bother coming in.
>

Fortunately, since your direct reports are... um... nobody, nobody
has to deal with your ****ty attitude.

Most reasonable people appreciate a polite heads up, and sadly, most
people in positions of power like a little ass-kissing. Most people
know this, but apparently your social skills are on a par with your
automotive knowledge.

nate

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On 05/13/2013 09:01 PM, jim beam wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 08:07 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 10:50 AM, jim beam wrote:
>>> On 05/13/2013 04:55 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>> On 05/13/2013 04:35 AM, AD wrote:
>>>>> On May 11, 5:59 am, jim beam > wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> reason for asking is this. My car did not come from the factory
>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. The factory tires are
>>>>>>>>> run-flats,
>>>>>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better
>>>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>>>> out there. Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and
>>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>>>>>> run-flats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat
>>>>>>>>> RFT -
>>>>>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at
>>>>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and
>>>>>>>>> tires
>>>>>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space
>>>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc.
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. Before
>>>>>>>>> winter,
>>>>>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable
>>>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>>>> tire. My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if
>>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are
>>>>>>>>> directional, so
>>>>>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I
>>>>>>>>> do get
>>>>>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the
>>>>>>>>> wrong way
>>>>>>>>> on the wheel. I understand that traction will be compromised
>>>>>>>>> somewhat,
>>>>>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as
>>>>>>>>> quickly as
>>>>>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires,
>>>>>>>>> because I
>>>>>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls My
>>>>>>>>> gut
>>>>>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if
>>>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nate
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be
>>>>>>>> compensated
>>>>>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. Some years
>>>>>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>>>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as
>>>>>>>> spare
>>>>>>>> tires. They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same
>>>>>>>> sort
>>>>>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. Turned out it didn't
>>>>>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. If I
>>>>>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. Odds are
>>>>>>>> you'll
>>>>>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. The only reason not to
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>>>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. You'd have the same problem
>>>>>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too
>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>> on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of
>>>>>>> use. My
>>>>>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be
>>>>>>> bad. I
>>>>>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! "50 miles" is
>>>>>> what's
>>>>>> recommended. reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>>>>>
>>>>> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
>>>>> pressure might not last those 50 miles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
>>>>> torque bind in the center diff.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
>>>>> amarok automatic, etc
>>>>> takes that kind of torture.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
>>>>> be fine for more than 50 miles.
>>>>> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
>>>>> and crawl at 55mph?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>>>
>>> /you/ don't understand where you're coming from, so trying to say
>>> someone else does is simply wishful thinking as you clutch for attention
>>> straws.
>>
>> Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't mean nobody
>> else does.
>
> YOU don't understand what you're reading,

Not when reading your posts, that's for damn sure. Nobody else does,
either.

let alone saying. other
> people's comprehension of your blatherings is a statistical crapshoot.
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Let's say I'm
>>>> in the middle of a drive from DC to Pittsburgh and somewhere in
>>>> rural MD
>>>> or WV one of my tires goes. Do I get a hotel room and wait for someone
>>>> to ship me a new tire (since they're probably not stocked) or maybe pay
>>>> $300+ for a tire that's the right size but a different brand or
>>>> model so
>>>> is not a really good solution and also hope that the local place has a
>>>> tire machine with soft pads on it so I don't get big spike marks on the
>>>> barrels of my wheels?
>>>
>>> um, if you've just had a high speed blow-out, you're going to be bumping
>>> the rim anyway retard. at that point, you're already damaged and all
>>> you want to do is get repaired and get out of there.
>>
>> I've never had a "high speed blow out" but I did have a tire go flat on
>> me once quite rapidly and at highway speed (as in, it was fine when I
>> left but was completely flat by the time I pulled over to the side of
>> the road, but there was no dramatic "BANG" or obvious hole in the tire.)
>> The rim was fine. It was at the time considered a low profile tire,
>> too. (Today it would probably be considered laughably skinny and the
>> sidewalls fat - I *think* it was a 195/50-15 - but for the car it was on
>> it was actually a "plus two" fitment.) Not a run-flat - not sure if
>> they'd even been introduced yet.
>
> so as usual, you're blathering about the hypothetical and have no
> experience. if you had ever been to a big metropolitan area with
> bridges where you are NOT ALLOWED to stop, a mile [or more] down the
> road, your rim will most definitely be damaged. as is typically the
> case with slow freeway flats where the driver doesn't know until the
> tread separates and the noise of the rim clanking becomes apparent.

Gee, you almost exactly described something that's happened to me at
least twice that I recall... oddly both times a right rear wheel. A
problem became apparent when the rear of the car suddenly felt slightly
loose and/or squirmy, lifting off the throttle resulted in noise and
vibration, pulling over revealed a completely flat tire that had been
driven on for a while to the point where the sidewall was starting to
wear. And yet the rims (different cars) in both instances were
undamaged - not just in my opinion but in the opinion of the shop that
installed replacement tires.

>
>
>>
>>
>>> besides, it's highly disingenuous to say that a rural tire shop can't do
>>> a good job. half the time, they're much more invested in good service
>>> for their community than townie ass-holes who do a bad job knowing
>>> they'll never see you again.
>>
>> Never said that they couldn't.
>
> yes you did - you said they wouldn't have a machine with "soft pads on
> it so I don't get big spike marks on the barrels of my wheels".

They probably won't.

They'll likely do a good job of mounting the tires and balancing them
from a perspective of leaving the car safe to drive and not causing any
vibration, but they will cause cosmetic damage to the wheels.

>
>
>> But it would be silly for them to stock
>> a full selection of low-profile, high-performance tires on the off
>> chance that someone came through wanting one. More likely they will
>> stock a couple very common brands and models and if someone wants
>> something else they'll order it from a warehouse somewhere. If I'm
>> traveling, that does me no good at all, unless I'm willing to accept the
>> delay.
>
> your [alleged] vehicle manufacturer doesn't even /provide/ a spare on
> most of their models, so it's just the price you pay for buying into the
> "ultimate marketing machine" brainwash.

Shame it isn't a relatively easy problem to fix.

>
>> Also, *most* tire changers do not have soft pads but use metal
>> clamping jaws with spikes in them,
>
> no spikes retard - you've clearly never seen a tire changer.


balls. Most tire machines use wheel clamps that clamp the inside of the
barrel of the wheel with metal pads with a sharp textured finish that
leaves little dimples in the metal of the wheel - even steel ones. Most
tire machine manufacturers do offer soft pads for these clamps, but
almost nobody uses them.

>
>> it pays to seek out a shop that has
>> one or another type of tire machine that doesn't damage the barrels (if
>> you care about such things, and I do.) For steel rims, fixing the
>> damage caused by such a machine is irrelevant, Krylon covers all and you
>> can't see the barrels of the wheels anyway. If you have nice alloys and
>> want to keep them in top shape, that's *not* acceptable.
>
> blathering retarded nonsense about something that doesn't exist.

Who's never seen a tire machine, again?

The *only* time I've ever seen a set of wheels that had had one or more
replacement tires put on them that *didn't* have those marks on the
barrels from the wheel clamps were on a car that had a full service
history from the dealership where it was sold (yes, the owner had
apparently gone to the dealership for replacement tires.) It was a
German manufacturer that you love to run down, and their service and
parts prices are eye-wateringly expensive, but at least they apparently
insist that their dealerships use the soft pads on their tire machines
(or they use tire machines with a different clamping mechanism for the
usual.)

>>
>>>> Or do I just bolt on the spare and keep on
>>>> truckin' and order the new tire to be shipped to me somewhere that it's
>>>> actually convenient for me to get it done, with no loss of time on the
>>>> trip other than the actual changing of the tire at the side of the
>>>> road?
>>>> Sure I'm giving up a couple inches of depth of the trunk, but Jim is
>>>> right about one thing, I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>>>> donut spare and risk having a second flat,
>>>
>>> unspeakable retard - having a second flat is NOTHING to do with ANY kind
>>> of spare.
>>
>> You don't think that keeping a tire in service for 2x or more its rated
>> lifespan (e.g. driving 100 miles on a donut spare recommended for use of
>> 50 miles) doesn't introduce a greater than normal risk of failure?
>
> you're talking out of your ass nate. as usual. compact spares work
> just fine and last many thousands of miles. their primary limitation is
> their impact on vehicle performance and thus safety. nothing else.
>

And even if that is the only limitation, it's an excellent argument for
limiting their use.

>>
>>>> this time stopping me dead,
>>>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to
>>>
>>> yeah, carry FOUR spare wheels! but why stop at just 4? retard.
>>
>> Sorry, I can't respond intelligently to nonsense.
>
> you can't even read intelligently, let alone respond.
>

Blah blah blah. Learn to write something that makes sense when others
read it.

>
>>
>>>> - when
>>>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel
>>>> tens of
>>>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have AWD so that is not a concern, but is also another good
>>>> point!
>>>
>>> not if you'[re carrying a set of spare wheels...
>>
>> Your fuel mileage must suck.
>
> either you're being deliberately disingenuous or you need to learn to read.
>

You need to learn to make sense.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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On 05/13/2013 11:22 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 09:01 PM, jim beam wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 08:07 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:


>>
>>> Also, *most* tire changers do not have soft pads but use metal
>>> clamping jaws with spikes in them,
>>
>> no spikes retard - you've clearly never seen a tire changer.
>
>
> balls. Most tire machines use wheel clamps that clamp the inside of the
> barrel of the wheel with metal pads with a sharp textured finish that
> leaves little dimples in the metal of the wheel - even steel ones. Most
> tire machine manufacturers do offer soft pads for these clamps, but
> almost nobody uses them.
>
>>
>>> it pays to seek out a shop that has
>>> one or another type of tire machine that doesn't damage the barrels (if
>>> you care about such things, and I do.) For steel rims, fixing the
>>> damage caused by such a machine is irrelevant, Krylon covers all and you
>>> can't see the barrels of the wheels anyway. If you have nice alloys and
>>> want to keep them in top shape, that's *not* acceptable.
>>
>> blathering retarded nonsense about something that doesn't exist.
>
> Who's never seen a tire machine, again?
>
> The *only* time I've ever seen a set of wheels that had had one or more
> replacement tires put on them that *didn't* have those marks on the
> barrels from the wheel clamps were on a car that had a full service
> history from the dealership where it was sold (yes, the owner had
> apparently gone to the dealership for replacement tires.) It was a
> German manufacturer that you love to run down, and their service and
> parts prices are eye-wateringly expensive, but at least they apparently
> insist that their dealerships use the soft pads on their tire machines
> (or they use tire machines with a different clamping mechanism for the
> usual.)

Here you go... pretty typical looking tire changer IME

http://www.derekweaver.com/learn/tire-changer/

scroll down to "clamping the wheel on the turntable"

"Wheel Clamps Positioned for Inside Clamping

Plastic protectors are used on the clamping jaws to protect the wheel’s
finish."

If only that were universally true...! More often than not, they
weren't ever purchased by the shop (as they're often optional,) or fell
off or wore out a long time ago, or the tech doesn't use them because,
well, not using them probably does clamp the wheel more securely.

"Spikes" may have been a hyperbole, but they do have a very heavy
diamond-knurled finish, or I've also seen wheels that were obviously
inside-clamped with a machine that had jaws that left three or four
little round, deep indentations in the rim.

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On May 13, 4:14*pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 02:17 PM, gpsman wrote:
>
> >>> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
> >>> miles, for some reason...
>
> >> It's unlikely on a regular tire.
>
> > Exactly, Socrates.
>
> >> It becomes more likely on a donut spare.
>
> > Really? *How did you measure that?
>
> I didn't - I read the big warning sticker right on the steel wheel to
> which it's mounted, directing one to limit speed to 50 MPH, and also the
> warnings everywhere directing one to limit use of a temporary (donut)
> spare to 50 miles max.
>
> Clearly, there are only two reasons why this would be. *1) the tire will
> be worn out and unsafe if those limits are significantly exceeded

You think manufacturers would equip their vehicles with a spare tire
that would pop after 150 miles?

You think someone would manufacture such a tire?

and/or
> 2) the vehicle mfgrs. are worried about wear to the spider gears and/or
> LSD clutches (if so equipped.)

It seems more likely they wouldn't provide a donut.

> Neither one of those sounds like a Good Thing nor practical if it is
> likely that one might need to travel farther/faster than that before it
> is convenient to have the flat tire replaced.

You could ride your run flats for 50, then swap to the donut. How
many donuts can you fit in the trunk?

> >> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
> >> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires.
>
> > Why wait? *You live in a densely populated area, must be some nitwit
> > cruising CL looking for the exact tires you don't like.
>
> Possibly, but it's a hassle and expense that's fairly unnecessary.
> I consider
> 15K mile tread life to be laughable

How many miles do you drive per year?

> > You're probably the only person for whom run-flat tires would
> > create such paranoia and complicated preparations for a flat that is
> > unlikely to begin with.
>
> Paranoia? *Complicated preparations? *Hardly, finding a "good used"
> wheel and tire is not incredibly difficult.

I wouldn't think so, yet here you are.

> My question was really how aggressively should I be pursuing this given
> that the tires that I already own are directional. *No more, no less.

Who the **** could say? Your preparations are allegedly imagined to
solve the problem of a flat 51 miles from... the nearest BMW dealer, I
guess.

You didn't mention the year/make/model vehicle (as usual), or who
manufactured the tire...

> You're clearly making a mountain out of a molehill;

You don't say...?

> I'm already mostly
> prepared for a flat

I'd have to agree run flat tires would fit that bill.

> and have spent more time replying to the inanity in
> this thread than I have actively worrying about my tires.

Well, thanks from everyone for wasting their time considering a
"problem" you don't care about.

> Look at it this way - let's say that you are looking to hire an
> employee, and two candidates are traveling from a decent distance away
> for interviews. *Both candidates have flat tires on the way. *Candidate
> #1 calls you an hour or so before his scheduled interview and says "Sir,
> this is Candidate #1. *I unfortunately have had a flat tire on my way to
> our interview and while I thought that I'd left myself a little extra
> time to get to your office I may be five or ten minutes late. *I
> appreciate how valuable your time is and will do my best not to be late
> but just thought I should give you a call in case it is unavoidable. *I
> will be there just as soon as I can and appreciate your time and
> consideration." *Candidate #2, however, is waiting for AAA or whoever
> the manufacturer of his car decides to send... and doesn't know *when*
> he'll be able to get back on the road again, but will likely have to
> wait at least an hour or so for a tow truck to even show up.
>
> Which candidate do you think is more likely to get the job, all other
> factors being equal? *I don't know anyone in the world who would
> consider the person who was prepared for reasonably forseeable incidents
> to be the less desirable candidate!

Look at this this way, the longest trip you're taking is to Darlington
PA to hit up your folks for a "loan".
-----

- gpsman