How bad is it, in the grand scheme of things, to install a directionaltire the wrong way?

On May 11, 2:18*pm, jim beam > wrote:
> On 05/11/2013 06:33 AM, gpsman wrote:
>
> > But, how will that affect your trunk organization challenges....?
>
> lol! *i'm surprised he hasn't yet posed about discovering the wheel is a
> different size and thus the trunk cover won't sit properly, but i guess
> that's because, as usual, he hasn't actually tried what he's bleating about.

Nate believes his imagination manufactures facts... he's seen what can
happen when a driver leans forward to expand their field of view field
in their side-view mirrors, and find his speedometer a driving
distraction.

He determined a donut spare is "no more useful than nothing at all",
somehow, obviously not by any personal experience, or reports of
others.
-----

- gpsman

On May 11, 5:59*am, jim beam > wrote:
> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel >
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> Question in subject line...
>
> >>> reason for asking is this. *My car did not come from the factory with a
> >>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. *The factory tires are run-flats,
> >>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better options
> >>> out there. *Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and can't
> >>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
> >>> expensive tire is unrepairable. *Also, my winter tires are NOT
> >>> run-flats.
>
> >>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
> >>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. *OK, but you still have the
> >>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat RFT -
> >>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>
> >>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and tires
> >>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space under the
> >>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc. that
> >>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. *Before winter,
> >>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
> >>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable used
> >>> tire. *My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if it is
> >>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
> >>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>
> >>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are directional, so
> >>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I do get
> >>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the wrong way
> >>> on the wheel. *I understand that traction will be compromised somewhat,
> >>> but how dramatic is it really?
>
> >>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as quickly as
> >>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>
> >>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires, because I
> >>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls *My gut
> >>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if anyone
> >>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>
> >>> nate
>
> >> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be compensated
> >> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. *Some years
> >> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
> >> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
> >> tires. *They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same sort
> >> of performance tests they would normally do. *Turned out it didn't
> >> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. *If I
> >> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from the
> >> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. *Odds are you'll
> >> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then the
> >> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. *The only reason not to would be
> >> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
> >> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. *You'd have the same problem
> >> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the same
> >> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
> >> on it.
>
> > I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of use. My
> > concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be bad. *I
> > can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond the
> > 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>
> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! *"50 miles" is what's
> recommended. *reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that you
> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>
depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
pressure might not last those 50 miles.

Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
torque bind in the center diff.

I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
amarok automatic, etc
takes that kind of torture.

Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
be fine for more than 50 miles.
But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
and crawl at 55mph?

On 05/13/2013 04:35 AM, AD wrote:
> On May 11, 5:59 am, jim beam > wrote:
>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel >
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>
>>>>> reason for asking is this. My car did not come from the factory with a
>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. The factory tires are run-flats,
>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better options
>>>>> out there. Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and can't
>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>> run-flats.
>>
>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have the
>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat RFT -
>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>
>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and tires
>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space under the
>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc. that
>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. Before winter,
>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable used
>>>>> tire. My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if it is
>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>
>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are directional, so
>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I do get
>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the wrong way
>>>>> on the wheel. I understand that traction will be compromised somewhat,
>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>
>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as quickly as
>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>
>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires, because I
>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls My gut
>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if anyone
>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>
>>>>> nate
>>
>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be compensated
>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. Some years
>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
>>>> tires. They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same sort
>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. Turned out it didn't
>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. If I
>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from the
>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. Odds are you'll
>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then the
>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. The only reason not to would be
>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. You'd have the same problem
>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the same
>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
>>>> on it.
>>
>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of use. My
>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be bad. I
>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond the
>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>
>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! "50 miles" is what's
>> recommended. reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that you
>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>
> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
> pressure might not last those 50 miles.
>
> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
> torque bind in the center diff.
>
> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
> amarok automatic, etc
> takes that kind of torture.
>
> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
> be fine for more than 50 miles.
> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
> and crawl at 55mph?
>

Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like. Let's say I'm
in the middle of a drive from DC to Pittsburgh and somewhere in rural MD
or WV one of my tires goes. Do I get a hotel room and wait for someone
to ship me a new tire (since they're probably not stocked) or maybe pay
$300+ for a tire that's the right size but a different brand or model so
is not a really good solution and also hope that the local place has a
tire machine with soft pads on it so I don't get big spike marks on the
barrels of my wheels? Or do I just bolt on the spare and keep on
truckin' and order the new tire to be shipped to me somewhere that it's
actually convenient for me to get it done, with no loss of time on the
trip other than the actual changing of the tire at the side of the road?
Sure I'm giving up a couple inches of depth of the trunk, but Jim is
right about one thing, I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
thousands of miles instead, so no worries.

I don't have AWD so that is not a concern, but is also another good point!

nate



--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 05/13/2013 04:55 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 04:35 AM, AD wrote:
>> On May 11, 5:59 am, jim beam > wrote:
>>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>>
>>>>>> reason for asking is this. My car did not come from the factory
>>>>>> with a
>>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. The factory tires are
>>>>>> run-flats,
>>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better options
>>>>>> out there. Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and
>>>>>> can't
>>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>>> run-flats.
>>>
>>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat
>>>>>> RFT -
>>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>>
>>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and
>>>>>> tires
>>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space
>>>>>> under the
>>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc.
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. Before
>>>>>> winter,
>>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable used
>>>>>> tire. My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if it is
>>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
>>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>>
>>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are
>>>>>> directional, so
>>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I
>>>>>> do get
>>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the
>>>>>> wrong way
>>>>>> on the wheel. I understand that traction will be compromised
>>>>>> somewhat,
>>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>>
>>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as
>>>>>> quickly as
>>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>>
>>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires, because I
>>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls My
>>>>>> gut
>>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if
>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>>
>>>>>> nate
>>>
>>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be compensated
>>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. Some years
>>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
>>>>> tires. They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same sort
>>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. Turned out it didn't
>>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. If I
>>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from the
>>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. Odds are you'll
>>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then the
>>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. The only reason not to would be
>>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. You'd have the same problem
>>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the same
>>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
>>>>> on it.
>>>
>>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of
>>>> use. My
>>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be bad. I
>>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond the
>>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>>
>>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! "50 miles" is what's
>>> recommended. reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
>>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that you
>>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>>
>> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
>> pressure might not last those 50 miles.
>>
>> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
>> torque bind in the center diff.
>>
>> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
>> amarok automatic, etc
>> takes that kind of torture.
>>
>> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
>> be fine for more than 50 miles.
>> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
>> and crawl at 55mph?
>>
>
> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.

/you/ don't understand where you're coming from, so trying to say
someone else does is simply wishful thinking as you clutch for attention
straws.


> Let's say I'm
> in the middle of a drive from DC to Pittsburgh and somewhere in rural MD
> or WV one of my tires goes. Do I get a hotel room and wait for someone
> to ship me a new tire (since they're probably not stocked) or maybe pay
> $300+ for a tire that's the right size but a different brand or model so
> is not a really good solution and also hope that the local place has a
> tire machine with soft pads on it so I don't get big spike marks on the
> barrels of my wheels?

um, if you've just had a high speed blow-out, you're going to be bumping
the rim anyway retard. at that point, you're already damaged and all
you want to do is get repaired and get out of there.

besides, it's highly disingenuous to say that a rural tire shop can't do
a good job. half the time, they're much more invested in good service
for their community than townie ass-holes who do a bad job knowing
they'll never see you again.


> Or do I just bolt on the spare and keep on
> truckin' and order the new tire to be shipped to me somewhere that it's
> actually convenient for me to get it done, with no loss of time on the
> trip other than the actual changing of the tire at the side of the road?
> Sure I'm giving up a couple inches of depth of the trunk, but Jim is
> right about one thing, I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
> donut spare and risk having a second flat,

unspeakable retard - having a second flat is NOTHING to do with ANY kind
of spare.


> this time stopping me dead,
> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to

yeah, carry FOUR spare wheels! but why stop at just 4? retard.



> - when
> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>
> I don't have AWD so that is not a concern, but is also another good point!

not if you'[re carrying a set of spare wheels...


--
fact check required

On May 13, 7:55*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.

I understand where you're coming from, you bought a rig you can't
afford to drive.

> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.

You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
miles, for some reason...

Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
rather than later.

It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
-----

- gpsman

On 05/13/2013 01:35 AM, AD wrote:
> On May 11, 5:59�am, jim beam > wrote:
>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel >
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>
>>>>> reason for asking is this. �My car did not come from the factory with a
>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. �The factory tires are run-flats,
>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better options
>>>>> out there. �Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and can't
>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. �Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>> run-flats.
>>
>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. �OK, but you still have the
>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat RFT -
>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>
>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and tires
>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space under the
>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc. that
>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. �Before winter,
>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable used
>>>>> tire. �My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if it is
>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>
>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are directional, so
>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I do get
>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the wrong way
>>>>> on the wheel. �I understand that traction will be compromised somewhat,
>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>
>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as quickly as
>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>
>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires, because I
>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls �My gut
>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if anyone
>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>
>>>>> nate
>>
>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be compensated
>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. �Some years
>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
>>>> tires. �They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same sort
>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. �Turned out it didn't
>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. �If I
>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from the
>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. �Odds are you'll
>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then the
>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. �The only reason not to would be
>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. �You'd have the same problem
>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the same
>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
>>>> on it.
>>
>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of use. My
>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be bad. �I
>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond the
>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>
>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! �"50 miles" is what's
>> recommended. �reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that you
>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>
> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
> pressure might not last those 50 miles.

under normal road conditions, those things hold up pretty well.


>
> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
> torque bind in the center diff.

vehicles with drive trains that have that problem have donut that are
the same diameter as the standard wheels. if the oem donut is smaller,
it's because the diffs don't have this problem.


>
> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
> amarok automatic, etc
> takes that kind of torture.
>
> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
> be fine for more than 50 miles.
> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
> and crawl at 55mph?

road debris? the average donut has a higher profile than many
performance tires. it's their width that's their primary difference,
not their depth.

as to speed, they're rated for 50 not because the tire can't take it,
but because the handling of the vehicle is compromised. on that basis,
and that basis alone, they're designed to get you to a place where you
can get the original fixed, not take you trans-continent. [although,
some hoods around here, you see vehicles with donuts as permanent fixtures.]


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 07:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
> On May 13, 7:55�am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>
>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>
> I understand where you're coming from, you bought a rig you can't
> afford to drive.
>
>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>
> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
> miles, for some reason...
>
> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
> rather than later.
>
> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
> -----
>
> - gpsman
>

nate and women??? it's very very cruel of you to have both in the same
post!


--
fact check required

On 05/13/2013 10:50 AM, jim beam wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 04:55 AM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> On 05/13/2013 04:35 AM, AD wrote:
>>> On May 11, 5:59 am, jim beam > wrote:
>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:12 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/10/2013 07:59 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:31:10 -0400, Nate Nagel >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Question in subject line...
>>>>
>>>>>>> reason for asking is this. My car did not come from the factory
>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>> spare tire nor any tools to change it. The factory tires are
>>>>>>> run-flats,
>>>>>>> but they're expensive, wear out quickly, and there are better
>>>>>>> options
>>>>>>> out there. Also, if you get a flat in the middle of nowhere, and
>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>> get the tire repaired within 50 miles, you're screwed - and your
>>>>>>> expensive tire is unrepairable. Also, my winter tires are NOT
>>>>>>> run-flats.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Factory option - space saver spare in tire bag, with a little foam
>>>>>>> insert that holds the jack and lug wrench. OK, but you still have
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 50 mile limitation as well as a similar speed limitation to a flat
>>>>>>> RFT -
>>>>>>> so now you have stuff, but it's no more useful than nothing at all.
>>>>
>>>>>>> My idea - for the summer, I will put one of my winter wheels and
>>>>>>> tires
>>>>>>> in the tire bag, along with the tools, and use the extra space
>>>>>>> under the
>>>>>>> foam insert to hold other emergency stuff like jumper cables etc.
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> would otherwise be taking up space in the trunk anyway. Before
>>>>>>> winter,
>>>>>>> I will attempt to acquire another wheel that matches my winter set
>>>>>>> (because 17s are cheaper and lighter than 19s) and an acceptable
>>>>>>> used
>>>>>>> tire. My theory is, this way, no matter where I get a flat if it is
>>>>>>> inconvenient to me to stop and get the tire repaired quickly, I can
>>>>>>> travel on as far as I like before having to deal with it.
>>>>
>>>>>>> I just realized something however - my winter tires are
>>>>>>> directional, so
>>>>>>> whichever one I put in the trunk, there's a 50% chance that if I
>>>>>>> do get
>>>>>>> a flat and need to use the spare, the tire will be mounted the
>>>>>>> wrong way
>>>>>>> on the wheel. I understand that traction will be compromised
>>>>>>> somewhat,
>>>>>>> but how dramatic is it really?
>>>>
>>>>>>> Should I make a point to get a non-directional spare tire as
>>>>>>> quickly as
>>>>>>> possible or is this no worse than using the donut, say?
>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't had any experience with wrong-way mounted tires, because I
>>>>>>> always paid attention to the little arrows on the sidewalls My
>>>>>>> gut
>>>>>>> feeling is that it's still preferable to using the donut, but if
>>>>>>> anyone
>>>>>>> has any info to the contrary please let me know.
>>>>
>>>>>>> nate
>>>>
>>>>>> Any loss of traction by being on "backwards" can easily be
>>>>>> compensated
>>>>>> for by driving 10 mph slower then you otherwise would. Some years
>>>>>> back one of the car mags did a story about the use of the skinny
>>>>>> doughnut spare tires that had started coming with Corvettes as spare
>>>>>> tires. They mounted the spare and then ran the car thru the same
>>>>>> sort
>>>>>> of performance tests they would normally do. Turned out it didn't
>>>>>> make all that much difference nor did it make things unsafe. If I
>>>>>> were you I'd just get the temporary tire that would have come from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> manufacturer and forget about al the other folderol. Odds are you'll
>>>>>> never use it and even if you do I'm sure it will much farther then
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 50 miles it shows on the sidewalls. The only reason not to would be
>>>>>> if you had a limited slip diff and had to use the same rolling
>>>>>> diameter and the temp wasn't the same. You'd have the same problem
>>>>>> using your winter tires, .. if you have limited slip you want the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> diameter .. OR.. you would need to drive pretty slow and not too far
>>>>>> on it.
>>>>
>>>>> I actually have the donut but it is labeled for only 50 miles of
>>>>> use. My
>>>>> concern is if I get a flat driving through BFE that it might be
>>>>> bad. I
>>>>> can think of places that I regularly go that are close to or beyond
>>>>> the
>>>>> 50 mile limit from a tire store that I would want to patronize;
>>>>
>>>> unbelievable - you're simply not from this planet! "50 miles" is
>>>> what's
>>>> recommended. reality is, you can go thousands of miles on the things.
>>>> you wouldn't /want/ to, but that's an entirely different matter that
>>>> you
>>>> don't seem to be able to figure out.
>>>>
>>> depends on the road conditions. Around here donut at the stratospheric
>>> pressure might not last those 50 miles.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that on subaru you are likely to develop
>>> torque bind in the center diff.
>>>
>>> I am not sure how well torsen commonly found on A4+ in audi lineup, vw
>>> amarok automatic, etc
>>> takes that kind of torture.
>>>
>>> Stripping the awd I guess on manicured roads in the states you might
>>> be fine for more than 50 miles.
>>> But why risking a blowout on anything vaguely resembling road debris
>>> and crawl at 55mph?
>>>
>>
>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>
> /you/ don't understand where you're coming from, so trying to say
> someone else does is simply wishful thinking as you clutch for attention
> straws.

Just because you don't understand what I'm saying doesn't mean nobody
else does.

>
>
>> Let's say I'm
>> in the middle of a drive from DC to Pittsburgh and somewhere in rural MD
>> or WV one of my tires goes. Do I get a hotel room and wait for someone
>> to ship me a new tire (since they're probably not stocked) or maybe pay
>> $300+ for a tire that's the right size but a different brand or model so
>> is not a really good solution and also hope that the local place has a
>> tire machine with soft pads on it so I don't get big spike marks on the
>> barrels of my wheels?
>
> um, if you've just had a high speed blow-out, you're going to be bumping
> the rim anyway retard. at that point, you're already damaged and all
> you want to do is get repaired and get out of there.

I've never had a "high speed blow out" but I did have a tire go flat on
me once quite rapidly and at highway speed (as in, it was fine when I
left but was completely flat by the time I pulled over to the side of
the road, but there was no dramatic "BANG" or obvious hole in the tire.)
The rim was fine. It was at the time considered a low profile tire,
too. (Today it would probably be considered laughably skinny and the
sidewalls fat - I *think* it was a 195/50-15 - but for the car it was on
it was actually a "plus two" fitment.) Not a run-flat - not sure if
they'd even been introduced yet.


> besides, it's highly disingenuous to say that a rural tire shop can't do
> a good job. half the time, they're much more invested in good service
> for their community than townie ass-holes who do a bad job knowing
> they'll never see you again.

Never said that they couldn't. But it would be silly for them to stock
a full selection of low-profile, high-performance tires on the off
chance that someone came through wanting one. More likely they will
stock a couple very common brands and models and if someone wants
something else they'll order it from a warehouse somewhere. If I'm
traveling, that does me no good at all, unless I'm willing to accept the
delay. Also, *most* tire changers do not have soft pads but use metal
clamping jaws with spikes in them, it pays to seek out a shop that has
one or another type of tire machine that doesn't damage the barrels (if
you care about such things, and I do.) For steel rims, fixing the
damage caused by such a machine is irrelevant, Krylon covers all and you
can't see the barrels of the wheels anyway. If you have nice alloys and
want to keep them in top shape, that's *not* acceptable.

>> Or do I just bolt on the spare and keep on
>> truckin' and order the new tire to be shipped to me somewhere that it's
>> actually convenient for me to get it done, with no loss of time on the
>> trip other than the actual changing of the tire at the side of the road?
>> Sure I'm giving up a couple inches of depth of the trunk, but Jim is
>> right about one thing, I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>> donut spare and risk having a second flat,
>
> unspeakable retard - having a second flat is NOTHING to do with ANY kind
> of spare.

You don't think that keeping a tire in service for 2x or more its rated
lifespan (e.g. driving 100 miles on a donut spare recommended for use of
50 miles) doesn't introduce a greater than normal risk of failure?

>> this time stopping me dead,
>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to
>
> yeah, carry FOUR spare wheels! but why stop at just 4? retard.

Sorry, I can't respond intelligently to nonsense.

>> - when
>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>>
>> I don't have AWD so that is not a concern, but is also another good
>> point!
>
> not if you'[re carrying a set of spare wheels...

Your fuel mileage must suck.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
> On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>
>> Yup, you understand where I'm coming from it sounds like.
>
> I understand where you're coming from, you bought a rig you can't
> afford to drive.

I'm interested to hear how you came to that conclusion.

No, wait, I'm really not.

>
>> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
>> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
>> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
>> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
>> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>
> You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
> miles, for some reason...

It's unlikely on a regular tire. It becomes more likely on a donut spare.

> Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
> set to carry as spares, or two? You're going to need them sooner
> rather than later.

??? you make no sense.

I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires. That's what most
people do.

> It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...

At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
roadside assistance. I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
in control of my destiny.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On May 13, 11:14*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> On 05/13/2013 10:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
> > On May 13, 7:55 am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> >> I "don't want to" risk driving 100+ miles on a
> >> donut spare and risk having a second flat, this time stopping me dead,
> >> but fortunately with a little planning ahead, I shouldn't have to - when
> >> driving long distances I'll just carry a tire designed to travel tens of
> >> thousands of miles instead, so no worries.
>
> > You seem to have concluded you won't have a flat every hundred or so
> > miles, for some reason...
>
> It's unlikely on a regular tire.

Exactly, Socrates.

> It becomes more likely on a donut spare.

Really? How did you measure that?

> > Since according to you run-flats wear out quickly, why not buy a new
> > set to carry as spares, or two? *You're going to need them sooner
> > rather than later.
>
> ??? *you make no sense.
>
> I'll wait until they wear out, and then replace them with less
> expensive, longer-wearing, better-handling tires.

Why wait? You live in a densely populated area, must be some nitwit
cruising CL looking for the exact tires you don't like.

>*That's what most
> people do.

Really? How did you learn -this- tidbit you purport to know?

> > It's a good thing they won't sell that year/make/model rig to women...
>
> At the risk of sounding sexist, I'm pretty sure most of them rely on
> roadside assistance. *I'm less patient than that and simply like to be
> in control of my destiny.

Lol. You're probably the only person for whom run-flat tires would
create such paranoia and complicated preparations for a flat that is
unlikely to begin with.
-----

- gpsman