unintended consequences

it's been a topic mentioned here a number of times, but today i
witnessed a very real and unintended consequence of the current trend
for high window lines on cars.

a wheelchair was at an intersection crosswalk waiting for the signal to
go, and a car pulled up on his left waiting to turn right over that
crosswalk. so, when the lights changed, the driver proceeded to turn
right nearly running over the guy they couldn't see sitting down.

so the question is, if the intention of high windowlines really is to
protect unbelted car occupants from ejection in the event of a crash, is
it really something so important that the slaughter of wheelchairs users
is considered acceptable? given that anyone who doesn't wear a belt in
their car is a well qualified darwin award candidate and deserves to be
taken out of the gene pool anyway, i think not.


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fact check required

On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:46:47 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>it's been a topic mentioned here a number of times, but today i
>witnessed a very real and unintended consequence of the current trend
>for high window lines on cars.
>
>a wheelchair was at an intersection crosswalk waiting for the signal to
>go, and a car pulled up on his left waiting to turn right over that
>crosswalk. so, when the lights changed, the driver proceeded to turn
>right nearly running over the guy they couldn't see sitting down.
>
>so the question is, if the intention of high windowlines really is to
>protect unbelted car occupants from ejection in the event of a crash, is
>it really something so important that the slaughter of wheelchairs users
>is considered acceptable? given that anyone who doesn't wear a belt in
>their car is a well qualified darwin award candidate and deserves to be
>taken out of the gene pool anyway, i think not.

A shorter person in a larger SUV will have the same problem, and I
think even a normal height person seated properly in a car should see
a wheelchair. And your wheelchair user should have enough sense to
know he might not be seen for a whole lot of reasons.

On 04/18/2013 05:52 PM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:46:47 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>
>> it's been a topic mentioned here a number of times, but today i
>> witnessed a very real and unintended consequence of the current trend
>> for high window lines on cars.
>>
>> a wheelchair was at an intersection crosswalk waiting for the signal to
>> go, and a car pulled up on his left waiting to turn right over that
>> crosswalk. so, when the lights changed, the driver proceeded to turn
>> right nearly running over the guy they couldn't see sitting down.
>>
>> so the question is, if the intention of high windowlines really is to
>> protect unbelted car occupants from ejection in the event of a crash, is
>> it really something so important that the slaughter of wheelchairs users
>> is considered acceptable? given that anyone who doesn't wear a belt in
>> their car is a well qualified darwin award candidate and deserves to be
>> taken out of the gene pool anyway, i think not.
>
> A shorter person in a larger SUV will have the same problem, and I
> think even a normal height person seated properly in a car should see
> a wheelchair. And your wheelchair user should have enough sense to
> know he might not be seen for a whole lot of reasons.

ability to see out of the side of the car when seated is a function of
the seat height, the person's stature, the windowline height, and the
distance to the side of the car. the right of the vehicle, that
furthest from the driver, gives the shallowest angle of view. if an suv
has a low windowline and a taller driver, the angle of view can easily
be better than that of the medium height driver with a high windowline
in an ordinary car.

as to the wheelchair guy, this was apparently something he'd encountered
before - he had that thing into reverse and out of the way faster than i
could say anything. but that still doesn't excuse the fact that higher
windowlines are a visibility danger. today was a dude in a wheelchair
switched on to the risk. tomorrow it's a kid in a stroller with a
parent distracted by stooping to pick up a flung teddy. no pretty.


--
fact check required

On Apr 18, 8:46*pm, jim beam > wrote:
>
> a wheelchair was at an intersection crosswalk waiting for the signal to
> go, and a car pulled up on his left waiting to turn right over that
> crosswalk. *so, when the lights changed, the driver proceeded to turn
> right nearly running over the guy they couldn't see sitting down.
>
> so the question is, if the intention of high windowlines really is to
> protect unbelted car occupants from ejection in the event of a crash, is
> it really something so important that the slaughter of wheelchairs users
> is considered acceptable?

Your evidence is woefully insufficient to support your conclusion.
Your scenario has presumably occurred countless times with vehicles
and pedestrians of every description.
-----

- gpsman

On 04/19/2013 05:30 AM, gpsman wrote:
> On Apr 18, 8:46�pm, jim beam > wrote:
>>
>> a wheelchair was at an intersection crosswalk waiting for the signal to
>> go, and a car pulled up on his left waiting to turn right over that
>> crosswalk. �so, when the lights changed, the driver proceeded to turn
>> right nearly running over the guy they couldn't see sitting down.
>>
>> so the question is, if the intention of high windowlines really is to
>> protect unbelted car occupants from ejection in the event of a crash, is
>> it really something so important that the slaughter of wheelchairs users
>> is considered acceptable?
>
> Your evidence is woefully insufficient to support your conclusion.
> Your scenario has presumably occurred countless times with vehicles
> and pedestrians of every description.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
>

dude, i could recreate the scenario and measure the whole damned thing
if i wanted because i'm just that kind of pedant. but to spare you that
agony, i'm cutting to the point which is, and this is unarguable, that
the angle of vision is decreased with a high windowline. and that
reduced angle can prevent a driver seeing a pedestrian of reduced
stature and potentially kill them.

it's just like those few years when seat belts were integrated with car
doors. the intention was that the belts were "always on". but if the
door opened in an accident, suddenly occupants were completely
unrestrained. fortunately somebody saw sense and they were dropped in
favor of a much more sensible audio alarm on the belt buckle instead.
the same needs to happen to high window lines - they need to be moved
back down to where they have been for the past 50 years. people that
don't wear a belt in a car don't need to be "protected" at the expense
of others.


--
fact check required