Engine identification 64 Ford

\
> There were 2 versions of the 352... one was a windsor, and the other was
> a cleveland... not sure what that meant, but maybe it had something to do
> with where it was made.

I'll admit that "Ford" is my second language, but I'm pretty certain
you're confusing the 351 (smallblock) with the 352 (FE Big-block) there.
The 351 came in Windsor and Cleveland versions in the late 60s and 70s
(they were really two almost completely different engines that just
happened to be the same displacement- the Windsor being related to the
289/302 smallblocks). But the FE family (352, 360, 390, 427, 428) didn't
have two different flavors.

M.M. wrote:

> fweddybear wrote:
>
>> There were 2 versions of the 352... one was a windsor, and the
>> other was a cleveland... not sure what that meant, but maybe it had
>> something to do with where it was made.
>>
>
> The Windsor and the Cleveland were quite different, IIRC.

Correct.

The Windsor
> was a 60 degree V and the Cleveland was a 90 degree, among
> others...again, IIRC (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

Well, you're wrong :-p

The only 60-degree Ford v8s I can think of are an absolutely HUGE
overhead-cam military tank engine from the 40s/50s (derived from a
planned WWII aircraft V12 that never actually flew), and the Ford/Yamaha
Taurus SHO v8 that was derived from the earlier SHO v6.

The 351 Windsor is a typical Ford 90-degree small-block engine, a raised
deck version of the 289 and 302. The 351C and later 351M are, while not
exactly a big-block in the sense of an FE engine or a 370/429/460, a
biggER block than the Windsor. The Ford 400 is basically a 351M with a
longer stroke.

Brent P wrote:

> In article >, lugnut wrote:
>
>
>>And not only that but, IIRC and this is not a brain fart,
>>the 352, 351W, 351C & 351M all had the same bore/stroke
>>making things even more confusing. This would mean all four
>>were either 351 or 352 cid. I guess, since the 352
>>FE(Ford/Edsel) already existed, there had to be a
>>distinction with the 351W.
>
>
> Right. The 351W was actually 352 cid, but called 351 to avoid confusion
> with the earlier V8
>

Kinda the way Ford always called the 302 a "5.0 Liter" even though its
closer to 4.9, but the "4.9" was the 300 CID straight six of the time.


At least the Mopar 360 (smallblock) and 361 (big block) actually did
have very different bores and strokes. The wierdness with *them* was
that the big-block 361 was the short-stroke/ big-bore high revver
(though no higher winding than a 383 and therefore less desirable), and
the smallblock 360 was a long-stroke stump puller.

"Steve" > wrote in message
...
> \
>> There were 2 versions of the 352... one was a windsor, and the other
>> was a cleveland... not sure what that meant, but maybe it had something
>> to do with where it was made.
>
> I'll admit that "Ford" is my second language, but I'm pretty certain
> you're confusing the 351 (smallblock) with the 352 (FE Big-block) there.
> The 351 came in Windsor and Cleveland versions in the late 60s and 70s
> (they were really two almost completely different engines that just
> happened to be the same displacement- the Windsor being related to the
> 289/302 smallblocks). But the FE family (352, 360, 390, 427, 428) didn't
> have two different flavors.


Its possible as its been about 30 years since I owned the car....and my
memory isn't what it used to be.....I modified the engine with an Edelbrock
high rise aluminum manifold and a holley 650 cfm carburetor. What a
difference that made. I was also going to put in a (and I forget the ratio)
3.92 maybe posi traction rear end, but the thing was fast enough as it was
without it.

Fwed

And to further complicate matters, the 351C was manufactured into the
80:s in Australia, and there was even a 302C manufacured there, which
was a destroked 351C.

Same block as the 351C, different crank, rods and heads. The heads are
closed chamber 2V heads, which are somewhat desirable for 351C:s.

So there has even been a 335 series 302.

Thomas Tornblom wrote:

> And to further complicate matters, the 351C was manufactured into the
> 80:s in Australia,

I'll file that one away in the "cool trivia" file.

Kinda like the fact that the Chrysler 413 and 361 were both manufactured
until 1975 for heavy truck, bus, and industrial applicaitons, 10 years
after their last use in cars.

It was common for Ford FE engines to have "352" cast into the block. It
doesn't mean it is a 352. See http://tinyurl.com/ya8u5z. What color is the
engine painted? Back then the different size engines were painted different
colors. A 1964 390 should have a black block with gold valve covers.

Here is a list of Ford engine colors I borrowed off the internet:

YEAR/CID/ ENGINE BLOCK AND CYLINDER HEADS COLOR/AIR CLEANER COLOR/VALVE
COVERS COLOR
1959 223 Black Red Red
1959 292 Black Red Red
1959 332 Black Green Green
1959 352 Black Blue * Blue
1960 223 Black Red Red
1960 292 Black Red Red
1960 352 Black Blue Blue
1960 352 HP Black Gold open-element Gold
1961 223 Black Red Red
1961 292 Black Red Red
1961 352 Black Blue Blue
1961 390 Black Silver Silver
1961 390 HP Black Gold Gold
1961 390 HP-6V Black Oval aluminum Gold
1962 221 Black Yellow Yellow (not positive on this one)
1962 223 Black Red Red
1963 260 Black Light Blue Light Blue
1962 292 Black Red Red
1962 352 Black Blue Blue
1962 390 Black Silver Silver
1962 406-4V Black Gold open-element Gold
1962 406-6V Black Oval aluminum Gold
1962 221 Black Yellow Yellow (not positive on this one)
1963 223 Black Red Red
1963 289 Black White White
1963 352 Black Blue Blue
1963 390 Black Silver Silver
1963 406-4V Black Gold open-element Gold
1963 406-6V Black Oval aluminum Gold
1963 427-4V Black Chrome open-element Chrome "baldies"
1963 427-8V Black Oval aluminum Chrome "baldies"
1964 223 Black Red Red
1964 260 Black Light Blue Light Blue
1964 289 Black Red Red
1964 289-4V (not HP) Black Gold Gold
1964 289 HP Black Chrome open element Chrome
1964 352 Black Blue Blue
1964 390 Black Gold Gold
1964 427-4V Black Chrome open-element Chrome "baldies"
1964 427-8V Black Oval aluminum Chrome "baldies"
1965 240 Black Red Red
1965 289 Black White White
1965 289-4V (not HP) Black Gold Gold
1965 289 HP Black Chrome open element Chrome
1965 352 Black Gold Gold
1965 390 Black Gold Gold
1965 427-8V Black Oval aluminum Chrome "pentroof"
1965 427 SOHC-4V Black Chrome open-element Cast aluminum
1965 427 SOHC-8V Black Oval aluminum Cast aluminum
1966 240 Blue** Blue Blue
1966 289 Blue Blue Blue
1966 352 Blue Blue Blue
1966 390 Blue Blue Blue
1966 427-4V Blue Chrome open-element Chrome "pentroof"
1966 427-8V Blue Oval aluminum Chrome "pentroof"
1966 427 SOHC-4V Blue Chrome open-element Cast aluminum
1966 427 SOHC-8V Blue Oval aluminum Cast aluminum
1966 428 Blue Blue Blue
1967 240 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"***
1967 289 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1967 390 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1967 427-4V Blue Blue Tall Chrome "PBF"
1967 427-8V Blue Blue Tall Chrome "PBF"
1967 427 SOHC-4V Blue Chrome open-element Cast aluminum
1967 427 SOHC-8V Blue Oval aluminum Cast aluminum
1967 428 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1968 240 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1968 302 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1968 390 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1968 427 Blue Blue w/chrome lid Tall Chrome "PBF"
1968 428 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1969 240 Blue**** Blue Blue "PBF"
1969 302 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1969 351 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1969 390 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1969 429 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1970 250 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1970 302 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1970 351 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1970 390 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1970 429 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1971 302 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1971 351 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1971 390 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1971 400 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"
1971 429 Blue Blue Blue "PBF"

* The blue used on these engines is very similar to the lighter blue used on
the late-'60s Ford engines.
** The blue used on 1966-1968 Ford engines is a darker blue than used on
earlier Ford 352 valve covers. The correct color is TRW #630224 or
Eastwood's "dark Ford blue."
***"PBF" indicates "Power by Ford"
**** 1969-1974 Ford engines were a lighter blue than 1966-1968. The color is
similar to the early 352 valve covers.
--
Regards,

Ed White
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/ - my automotive opinions
http://home.mindspring.com/~ed_white/id7.html - my oil filter comparison

"Dano" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I have a 1964 T-Bird that suppose to have a 390 engine. I have found a
> raised casting number on the right front of the block #16 with 352
> underneath. Any idea if this is trully a 390 or perhaps been changed
> with a 352 engine?
> Dan in TN
>