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The dangers of DRLs



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 5th 05, 09:48 PM
James C. Reeves
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"N8N" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
>
> Laura Bush murdered her boy friend wrote:
>> JohnH wrote:
>> > 223rem wrote:
>> > > Yesterday, in northern Michigan, was raining torrentially,
>> > > and visibility was almost zero. Almost everyone was driving with
>> > > their lights on, except for the GM cars, which had only their
>> > > headlights (DRLs) on. Real helpful on the road in poor visibility
>> > > conditions!
>> > > Lots of GM cars have DRLs and automatic headlights,
>> > > and give you the impression that you dont have to
>> > > worry about your ligths.
>> >
>> > The headlights don't come on with the wipers?

>>
>> You mean they do in some cars? Driving twenty year old beaters doesn't
>> keep me up to date. Anyway it's a stupid idea. Everytime you add a new
>> feature, it's just one more thing to go wrong.

>
> Holy crap a LBMHBF post I agree with. Who are those four scary looking
> dudes on horseback anyway and what are they doing in my office?
>
> nate
>


I was wondering the same thing.


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  #12  
Old July 5th 05, 09:50 PM
James C. Reeves
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"JohnH" > wrote in message
...
>
> It's not "nanny", it's the law here - headlights must be on when wipers
> operating.


It is in many places. The point is?

> On my 98 Jeep, they come on with the lights when the lights are in "auto"
> mode (which I always use).


So your wipers always come on when your lights do? Even is it isn't
raining?

>
> It's about as "nanny" as having your brake light come on when you put on
> the brakes. But I suppose you'd prefer a switch on the dash to do that.
>
>


Apples and Oranges.


  #13  
Old July 5th 05, 09:51 PM
James C. Reeves
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, 223rem wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, in northern Michigan, was raining torrentially, and
>> visibility was almost zero. Almost everyone was driving with their
>> lights on, except for the GM cars, which had only their headlights
>> (DRLs) on. Real helpful on the road in poor visibility conditions! Lots
>> of GM cars have DRLs and automatic headlights, and give you the
>> impression that you dont have to worry about your ligths.

>
> I see this literally every day (night) here in Ontario, where all new cars
> have been equipped with DRLs since 1/1/90. A steady stream of cars running
> only DRLs (or DRLs plus parkers and markers) without proper headlamps.
> It's such a simple, basic problem, and it's so incredibly easy to fix, but
> the regulator in charge of Canada's lighting laws says the problem doesn't
> exist.


And the people at GM says it doesn't exist too. Of course one can go to any
internet traffic cameras for a city where it's raining and see for
themselves..


  #14  
Old July 5th 05, 09:55 PM
JohnH
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>> On my 98 Jeep, they come on with the lights when the lights are in
>> "auto" mode (which I always use).

>
> So your wipers always come on when your lights do? Even is it isn't
> raining?


Make that the lights come on with the wipers.


  #15  
Old July 5th 05, 10:07 PM
Nate Nagel
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JohnH wrote:
>>Are you saying that having the headlights come on automatically
>>with the wipers is a good thing? It is not. It is yet another dumbass
>>'nanny' feature that denies drivers of their full control of their
>>vehicle.

>
>
> You technophobes crack me up.
>
> It's not "nanny", it's the law here - headlights must be on when wipers
> operating. On my 98 Jeep, they come on with the lights when the lights are
> in "auto" mode (which I always use).


ITYM "come on with the wipers" yes?

>
> It's about as "nanny" as having your brake light come on when you put on the
> brakes. But I suppose you'd prefer a switch on the dash to do that.
>


I personally don't like "auto" mode to begin with. My philosophy on
such things is that if you provide an "auto" mode then drivers will
assume that no thought needs to be given to light use, ever - which we
know isn't the case. Thus, if you provide an "auto" mode it should be
as close to truly automatic as it's possible to be, because users will
treat it as such. The reason GM is getting scorn for their
implementation is that they have provided an "auto" mode that isn't
truly automatic - it doesn't turn the lights on under conditions that
ought to be easily detectable by the control circuit and yet in most
areas legally require that the lights be turned on. Hence, a sucky
design. The way you describe your Jeep working sounds much more
logical. But overall, the added complexity, to me, isn't worth it, as
at least for me turning on the lights when it's
dark/foggy/rainy/whatever is as automatic as shifting - and having
worked on enough older cars, I can definitively state that I prefer
working on the ones with fewer automatic gadgets as opposed to more.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel
  #16  
Old July 5th 05, 10:09 PM
James C. Reeves
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"CH" > wrote in message
news
> On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:29:19 +0000, 223rem wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, in northern Michigan, was raining torrentially, and visibility
>> was almost zero. Almost everyone was driving with their lights on, except
>> for the GM cars, which had only their headlights (DRLs) on. Real helpful
>> on the road in poor visibility conditions! Lots of GM cars have DRLs and
>> automatic headlights, and give you the impression that you dont have to
>> worry about your ligths.

>
> My car turns on its headlights even when the day is gloomy.


Must be rare. I see few GM vehicles with their regular headlights on when
it's "gloomy" (I assume you mean overcast).

> And if it is
> not dark enough for the headlights to turn on automatically, there is a
> nifty little switch on the left side of the steering wheel, that allows me
> to turn on the headlights manually.


The problem is that the average "joe blow" driver that drives a car with a
"auto" light control system (none work properly, BTW) no longer thinks about
their lights. The auto system has "conditioned" them to completely "forget"
about lighting control. This is a bad thing for those times quite often
when the manual control should be used. I've noticed the exact same thing
223rem has noticed (and have posted same in the GM newsgroup). GM vehicles
are driving around without their regular lights on in daytime rain and
dayting fog in numbers far higher than the rest of the traffic.

>
> On the other hand it's astounding, how many 'conventional' cars still
> drive around with their lights off at dusk, when my car already has turned
> on its lights automatically.
>
> Chris
>


Astounding? I see far fewer of those than I do GM vehicles with only their
DRLs on when all lights should be on. GM had made the problem *worse*, not
better.

I am aware of your car types, however. I even used to own one (never will
again). I live where there are numerous streets that go into and out of
wooded areas. Under common ambient lighting situations a car following me
through these areas will have their lights go on about 4-5 seconds after
driving under the tree canopy of the woods only to have them extinguish
about 20-30 seconds or so after coming out from under the tree canopy. Go
into another section of woods, bingo, lights on again. So, as one drives,
the lights come on and off and come on and go off. What a annoying,
distracting nuisance with yahoos flashing their lights on and off behind
you! Poor design!

No thanks for auto headlamp systems. At least not until they can come up
with a system that actually works without these (an many other) anomalies.



  #17  
Old July 5th 05, 10:11 PM
James C. Reeves
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"223rem" > wrote in message
. ..
> Yesterday, in northern Michigan, was raining torrentially,
> and visibility was almost zero. Almost everyone was driving with their
> lights
> on, except for the GM cars, which had only their headlights (DRLs) on.
> Real helpful on the road in poor visibility conditions!
> Lots of GM cars have DRLs and automatic headlights,
> and give you the impression that you dont have to
> worry about your ligths.


You need to re-post this in the alt.autos.gm Newsgroup. The topic is A
LOT more fun to discuss over there since it's full of GM do-no-wrong
lemmings.


  #18  
Old July 5th 05, 10:15 PM
James C. Reeves
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"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, JohnH wrote:
>
>> 223rem wrote:

>
>> > Lots of GM cars have DRLs and automatic headlights, and give you the
>> > impression that you dont have to worry about your ligths.

>>
>> The headlights don't come on with the wipers?

>
> No, the headlights don't come on with the wipers.



Somebody told me that the Bonneville's and LeSabres actually do. Someone I
know that has a Bonneville says it's a bit annoying that every time he uses
his windshield washer to clean off bugs and road grime, his lights pop on
and stay on for a minute or so after he's done. Can't see the radio, the
trip computer displays, etc. during that time. I assume his statement is
true. Dunno...


  #19  
Old July 5th 05, 10:18 PM
James C. Reeves
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"JohnH" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> On my 98 Jeep, they come on with the lights when the lights are in
>>> "auto" mode (which I always use).

>>
>> So your wipers always come on when your lights do? Even is it isn't
>> raining?

>
> Make that the lights come on with the wipers.
>


Ah. That makes more sense. Does it still do this even when using the
washers (and don't need the lights)?


  #20  
Old July 5th 05, 10:19 PM
223rem
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JohnH wrote:
>>Are you saying that having the headlights come on automatically
>>with the wipers is a good thing? It is not. It is yet another dumbass
>>'nanny' feature that denies drivers of their full control of their
>>vehicle.

>
>
> You technophobes crack me up.
>
> It's not "nanny", it's the law here - headlights must be on when wipers
> operating. On my 98 Jeep, they come on with the lights when the lights are
> in "auto" mode (which I always use).



Do the taillights come on whith the wipers too?
 




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