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#11
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
>the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on 91 octane regular gas< The label on my '68 VW Type 1's gas filler flap specifies 91 RON. Typically, the conversion from 91 RON to US octane is 87. Al Adams |
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#12
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
Alcohol requires more fuel-to-air than gasoline therefore mileage tends to
suffer. Dual-fuel systems use computer controlled fuel injectors therefore they do not require different jets. Carbureted engines do better with rejetting. However, in my modest experience so many ACVWs are out of tune so it's hard to tell when mileage suffers from A10; it's just plain lousy anyway. |
#13
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
"Dennis" > wrote in message ... > I stand by all I said. >You did get me to check some of my older books( these books are older >than your driving experience and back when gasoline had some octane to >begin with). For example the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on >91 octane regular gas. If you timed with lower, cheaper gas with >lower octane you should retard the timing to compensate or you could >risk pinging under full throltle and or the engine running hotter than >it should. Yes, hotter with to much advance on lower octane, cooler >with higher octane. Not my opinion, just the facts. Dennis you are entirely correct Dennis... it is "fact" that the 1968 vw did call for 91 octane fuel.. i can snap a picture of the inside of my 1968 type 1's fuel filler flap for you... and then i can highlight where it specifies 91 RON rating... which is usually 4 points higher than the fuel rating we use here in the good ole USA(" (R+M)/2 " )... just do a google search on " Octane Rating " you will find what i said above is not just my opinion, it is true... so fill'r'up with 87 (R+M)/2 (US rating system) octane and time is spot on to what the manual says and you and your vw will be very happy.... for comparison i have a 1641 engine in my bug... it is built with a cam that is slightly more agressive than a stock cam(cb cheater cam) and has a static compression of 8.5:1... higher than anything vw ever set our cars at...it ran beautifully on regular (87) fuel.... i added a turbo charger and can do 17PSI of boost on premium(93) without detonation... i think the stock bug will be great with 87 octane fuel that it was intended to use..<G> |
#14
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
I am going to have to side with John C. at http://aircooled.net and Rob ‘aussiebug’ and Dave at http://vw-resource.com . Here are two more links: http://aircooled.net/new-bin/viewpro... 200891080108 Solex, Brosol, Bocar and Kadron Main Jets Part #: FSK0043 Price: $ 7.00 Due to oxygenated fuel, bumping your main jet size up a little will make your car run better AND cooler. We recommend 130 the 34-3, and Kadron applications, even though Kadrons have 135s when new. You need 1 main jet per carburetor. ------------------------------------ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol...nd_controversy Fuel system problems Several of the outstanding ethanol fuel issues are linked specifically to fuel systems. Fuels with more than 10% ethanol are not compatible with non E85-ready fuel system components and may cause corrosion of ferrous components.[126][127] Ethanol fuel can negatively affect electric fuel pumps by increasing internal wear,[127] cause undesirable spark generation,[128] and is not compatible with capacitance fuel level gauging indicators and may cause erroneous fuel quantity indications in vehicles that employ that system.[129] It is also not always compatible with marine craft, especially those that use fiberglass fuel tanks.[130][131] Using 100% ethanol fuel decreases fuel-economy by 15-30% over using 100% gasoline; this can be avoided using certain modifications that would, however, render the engine inoperable on regular petrol without the addition of an adjustable ECU.[132] Tough materials are needed to accommodate a higher compression ratio to make an ethanol engine as efficient as it would be on petrol; these would be similar to those used in diesel engines which typically run at a CR of 20:1,[133] versus about 8-12:1 for petrol engines.[134] In April 2008 the German environmental minister cancelled a proposed 10% ethanol fuel scheme citing technical problems: too many older cars in Germany are unequipped to handle this fuel. Ethanol levels in fuel will remain at 5%.[135] ------------------ On Jul 30, 3:52 pm, wrote: > On Jul 29, 9:05 pm, wrote:> My Beetle's engine has been running hot, gas bubbles in the carb, and > > it doesn't have the performance it used to have? > > I checked out everything like: > > * Tune-up and > > * compression check > > > Do you think it might have anything to do with the 10% ethanol Gas? > > > Any help will be appreciated! > > Thanks In Advance! > > --------------------------------------------------------- > I found two good links. > > http://www.vw-resource.com/additives.html#ethanol > > Here is a quote from the link above: > "However, no one has picked up the subject of older carbureted cars. > The addition of ethanol to gasoline causes big problems in a VW > engine, as ethanol makes the engine run 4% leaner. To compensate for > 10% ethanol in gasoline (called E10 in some places), you must increase > the main jet by two steps (e.g., from X125 to X130) and the idle jet > by one step (from 55 to 60), as 10% ethanol makes the engine run 4% > leaner." > > Here is another good link:http://aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resour...es/jetting.htm > > Here is a quote from this link: > "Why Jet? If it's too rich, the extra fuel will wash the oil off your > cylinders and wear out your pistons, cylinders, and rings quickly (no > oil), in addition to building up deposits on your valves, heads, and > piston tops. If it's too lean, the engine will run very hot, misfire, > and can eventually lead to a burnt valve(s). Get it right!" |
#15
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
Dennis wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:09 pm, "Joey Tribiani" > wrote: >> "Dennis" > wrote in message >> >> ... >> >Good god guys, I've run E- 10 in my vw's for 20 plus years and I've >> >>> never heard so much crap in one posting at one time. E10 is slightly >>> higher octane and sold as "super" in iowa and unleaded is the regular >>> blend at 87 octane while the E10 is 89. The engines run better, not >>> worse as they were designed to run on fuels with higher numbers. The >>> alcohol blends run cooler. You do not need larger jets. >> LOL.... "crap" because one guy thinks it.... sweet... >> >> anyway, over the 20 years or so i've been driving we are subjected to 10% >> ethanol at regular intervals...usually as the prices go up... and yes, it >> always made a difference... we don't just get it in our super or supreme we >> get it across the board... >> >> (FYI the engines were designed to run on lower octane fuels, not higher) > > No friend, higher. I don't know much about a lot of stuff so I > usually end my postings with the quote that "this is just my opinion > of course". I did not do this on my last posting because I do know > about octane ratings, alcohol, and gasolines. I stand by all I said. > You did get me to check some of my older books( these books are older > than your driving experience and back when gasoline had some octane to > begin with). For example the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on > 91 octane regular gas. If you timed with lower, cheaper gas with > lower octane you should retard the timing to compensate or you could > risk pinging under full throltle and or the engine running hotter than > it should. Yes, hotter with to much advance on lower octane, cooler > with higher octane. Not my opinion, just the facts. Dennis Are you aware that how they rate octane has changed over the years? Les |
#16
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
On Jul 31, 5:55*pm, Project Magnet #1 >
wrote: > Dennis wrote: > > On Jul 30, 9:09 pm, "Joey Tribiani" > wrote: > >> "Dennis" > wrote in message > > .... > >> *>Good god guys, I've run E- 10 in my vw's for 20 plus years and I've > > >>> never heard so much crap in one posting at one time. *E10 is slightly > >>> higher octane and sold as "super" in iowa and unleaded is the regular > >>> blend at 87 octane while the E10 is 89. *The engines run better, not > >>> worse as they were designed to run on fuels with higher numbers. * The > >>> alcohol blends run cooler. *You do not need larger jets. > >> LOL.... "crap" because one guy thinks it.... sweet... > > >> anyway, over the 20 years or so i've been driving we are subjected to 10% > >> ethanol at regular intervals...usually as the prices go up... and yes, it > >> always made a difference... we don't just get it in our super or supreme we > >> get it across the board... > > >> (FYI the engines were designed to run on lower octane fuels, not higher) > > > No friend, higher. *I don't know much about a lot of stuff so I > > usually end my postings with the quote that "this is just my opinion > > of course". *I did not do this on my last posting because I do know > > about octane ratings, alcohol, and gasolines. *I stand by all I said. > > You did get me to check some of my older books( these books are older > > than your driving experience and back when gasoline had some octane to > > begin with). *For example the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on > > 91 octane regular gas. *If you timed with lower, cheaper gas with > > lower octane you should retard the timing to compensate or you could > > risk pinging under full throltle and or the engine running hotter than > > it should. *Yes, hotter with to much advance on lower octane, cooler > > with higher octane. *Not my opinion, just the facts. *Dennis > > Are you aware that how they rate octane has changed over the years? > > Les- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Ok, I give up.... I will not give up on the little bits of first hand knowledge I have like the blends I've made in my garage with E85 and regular gas and how it runs. In the past two years I have driven over 60,000 miles on E85 and almost that much on E10 and the various blends. I will continue with what I know and what I learn. In 1963 I got my drivers lic. and took the test in my 57' oval and I've never lost my love for my vw's and cars in general. I will not bother you guys again since you seem to have much more knowledge and experience that I could ever absorb. Have a great time and thanks for the laughs and knowledge shared. Even though I have no plans to post here again, I do respect your opinions and what you have read. Dennis |
#17
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
"Dennis" > wrote in message ... >Ok, I give up.... I will not give up on the little bits of first hand >knowledge I have like the blends I've made in my garage with E85 and >regular gas and how it runs. In the past two years I have driven over >60,000 miles on E85 and almost that much on E10 and the various >blends. I will continue with what I know and what I learn. In 1963 I >got my drivers lic. and took the test in my 57' oval and I've never >lost my love for my vw's and cars in general. I will not bother you >guys again since you seem to have much more knowledge and experience >that I could ever absorb. Have a great time and thanks for the laughs >and knowledge shared. Even though I have no plans to post here again, >I do respect your opinions and what you have read. Dennis that's just plain ole sad, Dennis... no one discounts your "experiences", as we can't tell you what you experienced..... but that is exactly what you implied in your post to me, that my experience was wrong... we only stated that your information was incorrect... as a matter of fact, your "facts" were not wrong, but your interpretation of them was... I assume it was just because you didn't realize the octane rating... now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home" routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you... you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you were questioned over a little misinformation is bull****... but have at it... |
#18
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
> now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home"
> routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you... > you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you > were questioned over a little misinformation is bull****... but have at > it... It's turn your TAIL and run. It never ceases to amaze me how you can come across as a dickhead 100% of the time. Congrats. I owe you a beer for such an astounding accomplishment. Chris |
#19
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
> now... personally i think the "i'm mad, so i'll take my ball and go home"
> routine is overly done and a real bitch move... but that is up to you... > you've been here at RAMVA for years, to tuck your tale and run because you > were questioned over a little misinformation is bull****... but have at > it... It's turn your TAIL and run. It never ceases to amaze me how you can come across as a dickhead 100% of the time. Congrats. I owe you a beer for such an astounding accomplishment. Chris |
#20
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10% Ethanol Gas Causing Poor Performance?
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:15:06 +0200, Dennis > wrote:
> On Jul 30, 9:09*pm, "Joey Tribiani" > wrote: >> "Dennis" > wrote in message >> >> ... >> *>Good god guys, I've run E- 10 in my vw's for 20 plus years and I've >> >> >never heard so much crap in one posting at one time. *E10 is slightly >> >higher octane and sold as "super" in iowa and unleaded is the regular >> >blend at 87 octane while the E10 is 89. *The engines run better, not >> >worse as they were designed to run on fuels with higher numbers. * The >> >alcohol blends run cooler. *You do not need larger jets. >> >> LOL.... "crap" because one guy thinks it.... sweet... >> >> anyway, over the 20 years or so i've been driving we are subjected to >> 10% >> ethanol at regular intervals...usually as the prices go up... and yes, >> it >> always made a difference... we don't just get it in our super or >> supreme we >> get it across the board... >> >> (FYI the engines were designed to run on lower octane fuels, not higher) > > No friend, higher. I don't know much about a lot of stuff so I > usually end my postings with the quote that "this is just my opinion > of course". I did not do this on my last posting because I do know > about octane ratings, alcohol, and gasolines. I stand by all I said. > You did get me to check some of my older books( these books are older > than your driving experience and back when gasoline had some octane to > begin with). For example the 68 vw type 1 was designed to be timed on > 91 octane regular gas. That would be 91 Octane measured the way you do in the U.S. If I am not wrong it would be MON?(Measured Octane Number?) In Germany and the rest of Europe the Measure RON is used. And early air-cooled VW's have always been able to run 87 RON(Research Octane Number). J. If you timed with lower, cheaper gas with > lower octane you should retard the timing to compensate or you could > risk pinging under full throltle and or the engine running hotter than > it should. Yes, hotter with to much advance on lower octane, cooler > with higher octane. Not my opinion, just the facts. Dennis -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ |
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