NR2003 Loose web setups

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
> >"JP" > wrote
> > Actually, it's exactly your history that produced my post. <yawn>
>
>
>
> That's just false, or (again) you'll know that I've bashed them more than
> the opposite. I just can understand how a small company like them, who
> lasted more than a decade against tough competition, has given us quality
> products throughout the years. And that everybody else had not, except a
> few sparsely.


<shrug> If you say so, but we'll disagree on that.

Tough competition ? Who ? No one even really tried, including EA, which
is part of the root of the "if it's Papy, it must be realistic, etc."
mindset. Of course, Jr. has said some not so complimentary things about 03,
but I've noticed that doesn't seem to matter to some (head in sand comes to
mind)
And Papy quit being a small company once they hooked up with Sierra. But
it's a quaint myth to hold onto.

p.s. guess who was one of Papy's first publishers ? Hint; two letters in
the name, first one is E.....

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
> >"JP" > wrote
> > Kind of like how in N3, the fastest way around some tracks was on the
> > apron. Never fixed.
>
> Yes, it was. Nice try ommiting that EA's Nascar games had 100x times more
problems.

100x ? Interesting how that figure came up. And how was it fixed in N3 ?
None of the patches did. Of course, N3 being the umptienth game in the
series, one wonders how such an obvious flaw existed in the first place....


>
> > Papy was never deceitful/didn't care, did they ?
>
> They never really had the funds for it by Sierra/Vivendi/Cendant/whatever.

But then why did they trumpet it loud and clear ? It's not just Sierra,
etc. fault.
>
>
> > Or how about the myriad Papy Nascar releases with no or marginal
> > improvements, simply to make some $ ?
>
>
> Compared to what EA does, they were excellenté


<laughter> Riiiiight. Let's see, we had N1, N2, GNEP, N1999(with no
multi either), Nascar 50 anniversary, N3....all one the same engine, with
very little physics difference. Wow, only took, what, eight years for a
change.


>
>
>
> > Nothing wrong with that, but funny
> > how EA gets slammed for doing it.
>
> EA gets slammed for their slavery fascist ideology of gaming. Get with
the
> news, fellow.


Lol, whew, a stargazer, in addition to being a fanboy. Not bad. Just
keep repeating, "Serenity Now !", and listen to some Kumbaya tapes.

>"Bill Bollinger" > wrote
> The physics in the Thunder series has been very good, BUT they lacked in
> Multiplayer and Track details. Everything else was very good if not
> better than NR2003. Of course I will get pounded for saying this, but
> those that would say it, have never beaten me on the track with NR2003
> either


Well I beat you, and I think that there's other stuff better in NR2003






--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"JP" > wrote
> Tough competition ? Who ? No one even really tried, including EA,


How is competing against the #1 gaming company in the world, with an almost
fascist culture of developing games, a small thing? We're talking about a
small development company with Papyrus. They were never even a medium shop.
Papy lasted about 10 years between 1994 with N1 and NR2003 until EA finally
was able, with their cashflow to stop having competition.




> Of course, Jr. has said some not so complimentary things about 03,

Heck Jr. said to me N2 on the NROS was semi-accurate, so there.



> p.s. guess who was one of Papy's first publishers ? Hint; two letters in
> the name, first one is E.....

Well they published stuff before Indianapolis 500 ;-D




--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"JP" > wrote
>> Compared to what EA does, they were excellenté
>
>
> <laughter> Riiiiight. Let's see, we had N1, N2, GNEP, N1999(with no
> multi either), Nascar 50 anniversary, N3....all one the same engine, with
> very little physics difference. Wow, only took, what, eight years for a
> change.


Aren't you forgetting the annual EA Nascar game also? Never has Papyrus
made a "crap" sim. They were still always of quality if you never owned
one. Now EA, geeze they released Nascar Revolution, Nascar Road Racing
(worse racing game ever) and tons of annual arcade crapfest while shouting
they were sims. At least you knew with Papyrus they were sims.






--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Bill Bollinger" > wrote
> "ymenard" > wrote
>> "Same old same old" = established quality at it's basis
>
>
> Like he said before.... PapyFanboy. Which kind of amazes me Frankie.
> Never thought you were. But, I for one can say that NR2003 is not that
> great.


Sure man it's outdatted nowadays. It was perhaps even outdated back then,
but it's a solid, damn good simulation. Wish is better than *anything* EA
has ever released for a Nascar sim to this day. Why can't I be sceptikal?
I'm all for a better sim then NR2003 anyway, but it'll be a very, very rough
road and all that EA has gave us in the past was a failure considering their
cashflow and power.


All in all, if you consider NR2003 to be "not that great", how did you deal
with N2? How can you deal with anything related to simracing as NR2003 is
pretty much near the top of everything done to date.




--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" > wrote in message
...
> >"JP" > wrote
> How is competing against the #1 gaming company in the world, with an
almost
> fascist culture of developing games, a small thing? We're talking about a
> small development company with Papyrus. They were never even a medium
shop.
> Papy lasted about 10 years between 1994 with N1 and NR2003 until EA
finally
> was able, with their cashflow to stop having competition.
>

Frank, read up on the history of Papy. They have been around since 1988
or slightly before.

"ymenard" > wrote in message
. ..
> >"Pete" > wrote
>
>
> They did fix many things, but other things, well cmon you know how
> development companies work, and they wouldn't spend X ammount of cash,
> especially a fragile one like Papyrus with a low # of employees and cash
> flow, to repair something that affects a small % of all customers. Anyway,
> in that aspect EA is worse as they simply don't care at all, powerful they
> are, and just milk the cow.

The problem I had with Papyrus was they forgot their strengths and
catered
to their egos. The average employee wasn't treated that well financially at
Papy,
from what I witnessed. If you watch your boss drive to work in a new Porsche
or
Ferrari and you get turned down for a few dollar raise because they are cost
cutting...
When I was there they had 110 employees if I recall correctly. Plus
there was
the military division working upstairs. They made their name and money on
contract
work they did for other companies. Thats what paid the bills.
Frank they had patches and fixes that they had made and didn't release.
They
were ordered by management not to fix things as it wasn't cost effective.
Some of the
patches and fixes were done by the employees on their own time. The
employees of
Papyrus weren't the bad guys here, I think you can put 2 and 2 together.
They spent a ton of money and time on Hawaii and TEN. That's what broke
the bank.
Sierra wasn't seeing any return on investment and when it came it was too
little too late.
Add to that the cost of licencing and the fact all their contract work
was ended you
had a one-horse pony.
EA wanted to buy Papy and never got a shot at it. They probably would
have lost
some of their creative control but they would have had corporate financial
security.
All water under the bridge now and it's past history. Of course all the
above is
hearsay and supposition on my part. ;-)

Pete

>

"Bill Bollinger" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Pete" > wrote in message
>
> I have heard the same thing unfortunately. They have some good guys
> involved. Havn't always agreed with everyone, but I think guys like Nim,
> have a good understanding. The only problem is that he doesn't do the
> coding and it is almost like the inmates controlling the asylum.

Bill, they have a lot of talented people working there but what they
need
is an objective and honest critic that isn't given the beta 3 days before it
goes
gold. Hawaii pre-beta was fantastic and every week we saw the fruits of our
labours rewarded with constant code and bug tweaking. We had a direct line
to the coders and they listened. Unfortunately, it was the highwater mark.
It was 5 months before it went open beta. It would never happen that way
again.

>
> Give him a good FU from Amish
>

LOL, I'll tell him. Julian has gone over to the darkside. He now has his
own software
company and he is doing commercial flight simulation programming. I guess it
proves
the old addage if you can't beat them join them. :-)

Pete

>"Pete" > wrote
>> Papy lasted about 10 years between 1994 with N1 and NR2003 until EA
> finally
>> was able, with their cashflow to stop having competition.
>>
>
> Frank, read up on the history of Papy. They have been around since 1988
> or slightly before.


Cmon you know I know it. I'm talking about NASCAR games here.





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...