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#11
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I haven't looked at any of the EA sims but if I understand what Bill is
saying Papy was doing their timing different to other software companies and it shouldn't be an issue with EA. If you remember when processors went faster than a certain speed with GPL a patch was issued to deal with it. Clock timing was the issue. Bethesda when it did its Drag Racing series also got into timing issues and they changed the way their timing was done to correct it. Papy would have had to have gutted their whole game engine in order to fix the issue, so they decided the problem didn't officially exist. It's been awhile so all of the details I once knew are lost into the ether. But for those of you who have been around awhile you will remember the controversy that exploded when Julian Data of BHMS hinted about the grey areas of the original Nascar from Papyrus. Well this was one of those grey areas. Pete "ymenard" > wrote in message . .. > > > What makes you think it would be better with that EA thingy? Has EA even > proven anything about such things? > > > > > -- > -- Frangois Minard <ymenard> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > |
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#12
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>"JP" > wrote
> "ymenard" > wrote >> What makes you think it would be better with that EA thingy? Has EA even >> proven anything about such things? > > Fanboy Alert ! No, just an sceptical feeling, especially considering the entire history of EA Nascar "simulations". They have proven only one thing, it's that their entire Nascar racing line has been arcade games with little attemps to simulate anything. Of course this time, the chances are better then ever that history will not repeat itself, but anyway what makes you think that such attemps to push the limit of software won't happen in EA? Nothing. <yawn> Anyway you have no knowledge of this NG history -- -- François Ménard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... |
#13
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"Pete" > wrote > I haven't looked at any of the EA sims but if I understand what Bill is > saying Papy was doing their timing different to other software companies All companies do all their things different. Is there anything concrete here about EA, or it's just a wishfull hope? There's going to be the SAME attemps to cheating in any kind of software, just in a different way. So I don't see how it's "positive". EA has never been into anti-cheating stuff anway. They are almost the WORST offenders in that case. People try to find faults in their software forever. Just look at their entire sporting line, per example Madden where everybody just plays in the "grey zone" and EA does nothing to fix it. The "Grey zone" will always be there. And no, Julian is no "god" or anything for saying about grey areas. Everybody knew about it, he wasn't the first at all to talk abou tit. We ain't stupid people. -- -- François Ménard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... |
#14
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"ymenard" > wrote in message news > > > All companies do all their things different. Is there anything concrete > here about EA, or it's just a wishfull hope? There's going to be the SAME > attemps to cheating in any kind of software, just in a different way. So I > don't see how it's "positive". EA has never been into anti-cheating stuff > anway. They are almost the WORST offenders in that case. People try to > find faults in their software forever. Just look at their entire sporting > line, per example Madden where everybody just plays in the "grey zone" and > EA does nothing to fix it. Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. After dealing with both companies on beta problems I would say it was a wash on who was better or worse in regards to flaws and grey areas. Neither was great. > The "Grey zone" will always be there. Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an advantage. It's human nature. > And no, Julian is no "god" or anything for saying about grey areas. > Everybody knew about it, he wasn't the first at all to talk abou tit. We > ain't stupid people. Never said Julian was a "god". But he was the first to bring it up in here when everyone was pointing fingers at who was cheating. He got pillared for admitting to using grey areas and you were one of the worst at name calling. In fact Frank some people here still deny that there was any cheating going on at all. No everyone didn't know it. And if they suspected it they didn't have a clue on how it was being done. In fact very few would have had the guts to admit that it did exist. Papy's official line was that it didn't but privately was another story. I will be pleasantly surprised if EA brings out a quality sim. I know that if the ex-papy crew brings out a product that's online only and pay as you play I won't be paying for it. I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would learn from past experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old, same old". But we'll just have to wait and see. By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god" comment. |
#15
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>"Pete" > wrote
> Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. They did fix many things, but other things, well cmon you know how development companies work, and they wouldn't spend X ammount of cash, especially a fragile one like Papyrus with a low # of employees and cash flow, to repair something that affects a small % of all customers. Anyway, in that aspect EA is worse as they simply don't care at all, powerful they are, and just milk the cow. >. Neither was great. Exactly. So why am I labeled a fanboy when I am just severly doubting anything by EA. WTF is the world going to when people are pro-EA instead of the small factory of Papyrus that have gave us an incredible quality of product over the last decade? I mean ****ing Electronic Arts, with their slavery fascist intentions? If they barely touch NR2003 in terms of the overall aspect of the sim (considering that NR2003 is already outdated in many aspects, we have to consider the different timeline), you know how sturdy it is, possible customisation, overall quality of it's game engine, etc... I'll be surprised. Sure it had flaws and exploits. So does any game, even the 90% rated ones. And developpers of the 90%+ games, they can't fix them all either. Still, don't say they didn't cared, 'cause you are comparing and putting them lower than the KINGS of "don't care", which is Electronic Arts. >> The "Grey zone" will always be there. > > Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an > advantage. It's > human nature. I call it 'racing' ;-D > I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would > learn from past > experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old, > same old". "Same old same old" = established quality at it's basis > By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god" > comment. Never had anything against him you know. -- -- François Ménard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... |
#16
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"ymenard" > wrote in message . .. > >"Pete" > wrote > > Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. > > > They did fix many things, but other things, well cmon you know how > development companies work, and they wouldn't spend X ammount of cash, > especially a fragile one like Papyrus with a low # of employees and cash > flow, to repair something that affects a small % of all customers. Anyway, > in that aspect EA is worse as they simply don't care at all, powerful they > are, and just milk the cow. <laughter> Kind of like how in N3, the fastest way around some tracks was on the apron. Never fixed. And so on. And nooo, Papy was never deceitful/didn't care, did they ? LOL. "Wow, has this GPL patch changed the physics ? Papy: NO..........um, well, yes, maybe. Will N3 have the GPL engine ? Papy: YES........um, sorry, no. Or how about the myriad Papy Nascar releases with no or marginal improvements, simply to make some $ ? Nothing wrong with that, but funny how EA gets slammed for doing it. And so on. I doubt if anyone is really pro-EA. It's more a matter of not using rose-colored glasses with Papy and/or being willing to take the blinders off. |
#17
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>"JP" > wrote
> Kind of like how in N3, the fastest way around some tracks was on the > apron. Never fixed. Yes, it was. Nice try ommiting that EA's Nascar games had 100x times more problems. > Papy was never deceitful/didn't care, did they ? They never really had the funds for it by Sierra/Vivendi/Cendant/whatever. > Or how about the myriad Papy Nascar releases with no or marginal > improvements, simply to make some $ ? Compared to what EA does, they were excellenté > Nothing wrong with that, but funny > how EA gets slammed for doing it. EA gets slammed for their slavery fascist ideology of gaming. Get with the news, fellow. -- -- François Ménard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... |
#18
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>"JP" > wrote
> Actually, it's exactly your history that produced my post. <yawn> That's just false, or (again) you'll know that I've bashed them more than the opposite. I just can understand how a small company like them, who lasted more than a decade against tough competition, has given us quality products throughout the years. And that everybody else had not, except a few sparsely. -- -- François Ménard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... |
#19
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"Pete" > wrote in message news > > "ymenard" > wrote in message > news >> >> > Papy did nothing to fix many of the grey areas either. After dealing > with both > companies on beta problems I would say it was a wash on who was better or > worse > in regards to flaws and grey areas. Neither was great. > Totally agree with Pete on this. > Yes, people will always exploit and look for the holes to get an > advantage. It's > human nature. > Yes, it is in every game. But like in golf, whose golf game do you respect the most? The guy who cheats every time he plays or the guy who counts every stroke like he is supposed to according to the rules? I respect those that play by the rules and have less respect for those that cheat. > Never said Julian was a "god". But he was the first to bring it up in > here when > everyone was pointing fingers at who was cheating. He got pillared for > admitting to > using grey areas and you were one of the worst at name calling. In fact > Frank some > people here still deny that there was any cheating going on at all. > No everyone didn't know it. And if they suspected it they didn't have a > clue on how > it was being done. In fact very few would have had the guts to admit that > it > did exist. > Papy's official line was that it didn't but privately was another story. TOTALLY agree with Pete on this. I for one didn't know of MANY of the grey areas until N3. Heck even then, was learning stuff until we moved to N4. The bottom line is that certain people KNEW of the grey areas (Those that were "in the know" at Papy) and the majority did not. > > I will be pleasantly surprised if EA brings out a quality sim. I know > that if the ex-papy > crew brings out a product that's online only and pay as you play I won't > be > paying for it. > I was hoping First Racing was starting with a clean slate and would > learn from past > experiences but from what I'm hearing through the grape vine is "same old, > same old". > But we'll just have to wait and see. I have heard the same thing unfortunately. They have some good guys involved. Havn't always agreed with everyone, but I think guys like Nim, have a good understanding. The only problem is that he doesn't do the coding and it is almost like the inmates controlling the asylum. > > By the way I'll say hi to Julian for you. LOL He'll love the "god" > comment. > Give him a good FU from Amish Bill Bollinger www.gsxn.com |
#20
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"ymenard" > wrote in message . .. > > "Same old same old" = established quality at it's basis Like he said before.... PapyFanboy. Which kind of amazes me Frankie. Never thought you were. But, I for one can say that NR2003 is not that great. UNFORTUNATELY, you are right, I am HOPING EA comes out with something good, because they have disappointed me before. However, just because NR2003 is better than the lame attempts we have had before from other companies, does not make it an excellent attempt or therefore "quality". Bill Bollinger www.gsxn.com |
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