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$100 for a front end alignment?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 8th 10, 04:47 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
VFW
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Posts: 86
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

my wife took her Ghia to a tire shop and they had some difficulties.
two hours later, She just wasn't happy with how it went.
'69 with discs up front, ball-joints shouldn't be that hard to adjust.
Did they take advantage of a lady?
--
Money! What a concept.
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  #2  
Old July 8th 10, 05:39 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
VFW
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Posts: 86
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

In article >,
John Stafford > wrote:

> In article >,
> VFW > wrote:
>
> > my wife took her Ghia to a tire shop and they had some difficulties.
> > two hours later, She just wasn't happy with how it went.
> > '69 with discs up front, ball-joints shouldn't be that hard to adjust.
> > Did they take advantage of a lady?

>
> So what was wrong after the adjustment?
>
> Depends upon the condition of the ball joints. Around here they hate to
> work on ACVWs, and might adjust crapped out joints rather than replace
> them.


well, I have no way to check the adjustment. but they claimed they had
trouble doing the job. The strange is I've had another car's front end
done at the same place and they too had "trouble" getting it right.
and that was with New B.J.'s.
I think we had some bad attitudes towards the VW. but, I could be wrong.
I might just stop by the shop today and discuss the matter.
wish me luck.
--
Money! What a concept.
  #3  
Old July 8th 10, 09:36 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
Jan Andersson[_4_]
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Posts: 467
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

John Stafford wrote:
> In article >,
> VFW > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> John Stafford > wrote:
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> VFW > wrote:
>>>
>>>> my wife took her Ghia to a tire shop and they had some difficulties.
>>>> two hours later, She just wasn't happy with how it went.
>>>> '69 with discs up front, ball-joints shouldn't be that hard to adjust.
>>>> Did they take advantage of a lady?
>>> So what was wrong after the adjustment?
>>>
>>> Depends upon the condition of the ball joints. Around here they hate to
>>> work on ACVWs, and might adjust crapped out joints rather than replace
>>> them.

>> well, I have no way to check the adjustment. but they claimed they had
>> trouble doing the job. The strange is I've had another car's front end
>> done at the same place and they too had "trouble" getting it right.
>> and that was with New B.J.'s.
>> I think we had some bad attitudes towards the VW. but, I could be wrong.
>> I might just stop by the shop today and discuss the matter.
>> wish me luck.

>
> They probably don't know how to do it. I wonder if they messed with
> tie-rods instead of the offset adjuster.
>
> Sorry to hear it happened. Here it is definitely bad attitude. Their
> flat-rate manual has nothing for a Bug, they mess up and the mechanic
> makes a dime on the dollar, and doesn't do it right.



$100 should have taken care of 4-wheel alignment and an oil change on
top of that

I agree with John, they probably didn't know how. The lower ball joint
is what it is, not adjustable. The top ball joint sits in a cone adapter
that has an offset hole through it, and a LARGE but thin hex head to
turn it from. Need to loosen the BJ first and then fight the adjuster
cone. They like to get really stuck over the years and may require BJ
removal to knock them loose. A little anti seize on the cone would do
good, once it pops out. As you turn the cone, both camber and caster
angles will change. You turn it until you find a happy medium between
the two. Then adjust toe and re-check camber and caster.

The computer probably won't have a Ghia listed there but you can
substitute a STD beetle for it to get the values, IF the computer lists
a non-super beetle. (70 or older in the US I believe?)

The rear camber is not adjustable on a swing axle car, but toe is. The
rear needs to be adjusted before the front.
  #4  
Old July 9th 10, 01:53 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
Jim Ed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

Their books probably sis not go back that far.

The last time I took my 1973 beetle in for a computerized alignment,
the shops' books did not show how to do it because the car was so
old.
They ended up just setting the toe-in but charged me for the full
computerized alignment.
They did a good job though without any gripes
I wish I had tried John Muir's method with two yard sticks. I could
have set the toe-in myself.
It may be harder to set with a Ghia or a super Beetle.

  #5  
Old July 9th 10, 07:47 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
John[_28_]
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Posts: 359
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

Both the upper and lower Ball Joints on my T3 are adjustable but the Service
Manual says adjust the upper and then the lower as a last resort. I,ve set
them up with the notch on the adjuster towards the front then adjusted the
toe in with a a home made track rod. Seems to work fine with only a faint
dive to the left under braking. Apparently some Mexican/Brazilian types are
made non adjustable for cost reasons.
Dont know why they dont like working on the front ends of ACVW,s. I just
replaced all 4 ball joints in an hour or so with nothing more than a 3/8
whit threaded rod bent into a "U" shape to make a puller. If a pro shop cant
do the same they should take up basket weaving. ( sorry, any basket weavers
out there)
John


  #6  
Old July 9th 10, 08:49 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
Speedy Jim[_2_]
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Posts: 259
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

John wrote:
> Both the upper and lower Ball Joints on my T3 are adjustable but the Service
> Manual says adjust the upper and then the lower as a last resort. I,ve set
> them up with the notch on the adjuster towards the front then adjusted the
> toe in with a a home made track rod. Seems to work fine with only a faint
> dive to the left under braking. Apparently some Mexican/Brazilian types are
> made non adjustable for cost reasons.
> Dont know why they dont like working on the front ends of ACVW,s. I just
> replaced all 4 ball joints in an hour or so with nothing more than a 3/8
> whit threaded rod bent into a "U" shape to make a puller. If a pro shop cant
> do the same they should take up basket weaving. ( sorry, any basket weavers
> out there)
> John
>
>


No criticism intended...
T3 ball jts are quite different from T1/Ghia.
There is only an eccentric adjuster for the top one
to change the camber. The adjuster is often frozen in place,
making adjustment very tedious.

And ball joint replacement requires massive hydraulic press
equipment.

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

  #7  
Old July 9th 10, 11:11 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
Jan Andersson[_4_]
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Posts: 467
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

Speedy Jim wrote:
> John wrote:
>> Both the upper and lower Ball Joints on my T3 are adjustable but the
>> Service Manual says adjust the upper and then the lower as a last
>> resort. I,ve set them up with the notch on the adjuster towards the
>> front then adjusted the toe in with a a home made track rod. Seems
>> to work fine with only a faint dive to the left under braking.
>> Apparently some Mexican/Brazilian types are made non adjustable for
>> cost reasons.
>> Dont know why they dont like working on the front ends of ACVW,s. I
>> just replaced all 4 ball joints in an hour or so with nothing more
>> than a 3/8 whit threaded rod bent into a "U" shape to make a puller.
>> If a pro shop cant do the same they should take up basket weaving. (
>> sorry, any basket weavers out there)
>> John
>>

>
> No criticism intended...
> T3 ball jts are quite different from T1/Ghia.
> There is only an eccentric adjuster for the top one
> to change the camber. The adjuster is often frozen in place,
> making adjustment very tedious.
>
> And ball joint replacement requires massive hydraulic press
> equipment.
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/



My friend did my last beetle ball joint for me at his work... 14 tons
when they popped and the press is behind a safety cage for a reason

You can also "weld them out". It involved taking the backing plate out
with a die grinder and pushing the ball and stud out, exposing the
socket... then weld a continuous bead on the inside of the socket, high
amps, and then quickly dip the whole thing in cold water. The rest of
the ball joint should drop right out. Youtube videos of this exist,
excuse me for being too lazy to go find a link
  #8  
Old July 10th 10, 03:48 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.vw.aircooled
VFW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default $100 for a front end alignment?

In article >,
Jan Andersson > wrote:

> John Stafford wrote:
> > In article >,
> > VFW > wrote:
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> John Stafford > wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> VFW > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> my wife took her Ghia to a tire shop and they had some difficulties.
> >>>> two hours later, She just wasn't happy with how it went.
> >>>> '69 with discs up front, ball-joints shouldn't be that hard to adjust.
> >>>> Did they take advantage of a lady?
> >>> So what was wrong after the adjustment?
> >>>
> >>> Depends upon the condition of the ball joints. Around here they hate to
> >>> work on ACVWs, and might adjust crapped out joints rather than replace
> >>> them.
> >> well, I have no way to check the adjustment. but they claimed they had
> >> trouble doing the job. The strange is I've had another car's front end
> >> done at the same place and they too had "trouble" getting it right.
> >> and that was with New B.J.'s.
> >> I think we had some bad attitudes towards the VW. but, I could be wrong.
> >> I might just stop by the shop today and discuss the matter.
> >> wish me luck.

> >
> > They probably don't know how to do it. I wonder if they messed with
> > tie-rods instead of the offset adjuster.
> >
> > Sorry to hear it happened. Here it is definitely bad attitude. Their
> > flat-rate manual has nothing for a Bug, they mess up and the mechanic
> > makes a dime on the dollar, and doesn't do it right.

>
>
> $100 should have taken care of 4-wheel alignment and an oil change on
> top of that
>
> I agree with John, they probably didn't know how. The lower ball joint
> is what it is, not adjustable. The top ball joint sits in a cone adapter
> that has an offset hole through it, and a LARGE but thin hex head to
> turn it from. Need to loosen the BJ first and then fight the adjuster
> cone. They like to get really stuck over the years and may require BJ
> removal to knock them loose. A little anti seize on the cone would do
> good, once it pops out. As you turn the cone, both camber and caster
> angles will change. You turn it until you find a happy medium between
> the two. Then adjust toe and re-check camber and caster.
>
> The computer probably won't have a Ghia listed there but you can
> substitute a STD beetle for it to get the values, IF the computer lists
> a non-super beetle. (70 or older in the US I believe?)
>
> The rear camber is not adjustable on a swing axle car, but toe is. The
> rear needs to be adjusted before the front.


Thanks , all for the feed-back.
--
Money! What a concept.
 




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