How Bad Before the Rings Go?

How bad does the engine oil burn get before a ring goes south beyond daily
use?

I've oil-fouled a plug once. It burns almost a quart per 1,000 miles on
average - depending on if I'm traveling or commuting in traffic, etc.

I'm trying to decide whether I keep it and drive as-is for a while, keep it
and fix it, or sell it ASAP to get a newer car.

1995 SL1 if it matters - 154,000 miles.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

I've got a friend that has been driving a car for years that requires adding
a quart every couple hundred miles. A quart per thousand isn't that bad by
comparison. Just be sure you watch that oil level and don't forget about
it. Have you checked your PCV valve? If they get gunked up, owners have
reported that they contribute to oil consumption.

If you consider attempting to "fix" the problem by tearing apart the motor,
consider this -

Replacing oil control rings or valve guides to try to reduce consumption is
expensive and doesn't guarantee the problem will be solved. What is
cheaper - spending a buck every thousand miles to keep the oil level where
it should be, or paying to rebuild the motor (~ $2000 likely) which may or
may not resovle the problem? I know which I'll choose.

I don't know that you should feel the need to sell it, if you're making the
assumption that oil consumption means that something very bad is going to
happen soon because of it. Lots of owners report burning oil for the life
of the vehicle with no other issues. If that is the case, and if it is not
quickly getting progressively worse, I'd keep it. A car that's paid for
sure beats starting the cycle over again with another 5 years of payments...

Have you tried the 'stuck ring' fix described in the forums at
http://www.saturnfans.com? Many have reported success in reducing oil
consumption with that method. Run a search and you're sure to come across
it.

Good luck,
Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com


"Joe" > wrote in message
news:1ffxg.10917$Oz3.8979@trnddc02...
> How bad does the engine oil burn get before a ring goes south beyond daily
> use?
>
> I've oil-fouled a plug once. It burns almost a quart per 1,000 miles on
> average - depending on if I'm traveling or commuting in traffic, etc.
>
> I'm trying to decide whether I keep it and drive as-is for a while, keep
> it and fix it, or sell it ASAP to get a newer car.
>
> 1995 SL1 if it matters - 154,000 miles.
>
> Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R
>
> Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"
>
> Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
> http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
> http://www.youthelate.com
>
>
>
>

Lane wrote:
> I've got a friend that has been driving a car for years that requires adding
> a quart every couple hundred miles. A quart per thousand isn't that bad by
> comparison. Just be sure you watch that oil level and don't forget about
> it. Have you checked your PCV valve? If they get gunked up, owners have
> reported that they contribute to oil consumption.
>
> If you consider attempting to "fix" the problem by tearing apart the motor,
> consider this -
>
> Replacing oil control rings or valve guides to try to reduce consumption is
> expensive and doesn't guarantee the problem will be solved. What is
> cheaper - spending a buck every thousand miles to keep the oil level where
> it should be, or paying to rebuild the motor (~ $2000 likely) which may or
> may not resovle the problem? I know which I'll choose.
>
> I don't know that you should feel the need to sell it, if you're making the
> assumption that oil consumption means that something very bad is going to
> happen soon because of it. Lots of owners report burning oil for the life
> of the vehicle with no other issues. If that is the case, and if it is not
> quickly getting progressively worse, I'd keep it. A car that's paid for
> sure beats starting the cycle over again with another 5 years of payments...
>
> Have you tried the 'stuck ring' fix described in the forums at
> http://www.saturnfans.com? Many have reported success in reducing oil
> consumption with that method. Run a search and you're sure to come across
> it.
>
> Good luck,
> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
> ---
> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com
>
>
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> news:1ffxg.10917$Oz3.8979@trnddc02...
>
Lane, would you try the stuck ring fix if it was losing a quart
every 500 miles? Just curious.

> I've got a friend that has been driving a car for years that requires
> adding a quart every couple hundred miles.

Is their car a Saturn with the same engine as mine? Mine went from a quart
every 3,000 miles to a quart or so every 1,000 miles in the past two years.
Seeing as I commute 70 miles round trip daily on NJ's finest highways (i.e.
stop and go from time to time) I'm a bit worried that I'll snap a ring
sooner or later and be stuck out there with a big bill, plus an unplanned
replacement cost.

> A quart per thousand isn't that bad by comparison. Just be sure you watch
> that oil level and don't forget about it.

Agreed. I found the car 2 quarts low yesterday after a long trip.
Previously, the engine didn't eat oil on long, cruise-control moderated
trips, only the stop-and-go. That's part of my new worries.

> Have you checked your PCV valve? If they get gunked up, owners have
> reported that they contribute to oil consumption.

Changed it when we found the fouled plug three weeks ago.

> If you consider attempting to "fix" the problem by tearing apart the
> motor, consider this -
>
> Replacing oil control rings or valve guides to try to reduce consumption
> is expensive and doesn't guarantee the problem will be solved. What is
> cheaper - spending a buck every thousand miles to keep the oil level where
> it should be, or paying to rebuild the motor (~ $2000 likely) which may or
> may not resovle the problem? I know which I'll choose.

I'll gladly throw oil in every so often IF, and only if I know that the
rings or something else isn't about to let go and leave me stranded on a
highway, or worse - without a vehicle.

> I don't know that you should feel the need to sell it, if you're making
> the assumption that oil consumption means that something very bad is going
> to happen soon because of it. Lots of owners report burning oil for the
> life of the vehicle with no other issues. If that is the case, and if it
> is not quickly getting progressively worse, I'd keep it. A car that's
> paid for sure beats starting the cycle over again with another 5 years of
> payments...

Oh, don't get me wrong, I didn't plan on paying much for my next car.
Again, oil consumption doesn't worry me, it's the concept of being
vehicle-less. The next car I've got lined up is a newer "W2(?)" Saturn
station wagon. Family owned, 50,000 miles and the perfect cost for me if I
choose to go that route. Breaks my heart that I'll be loosing the stick
shift though.

> Have you tried the 'stuck ring' fix described in the forums at
> http://www.saturnfans.com? Many have reported success in reducing oil
> consumption with that method. Run a search and you're sure to come across
> it.

I've tried most of it. <GRIN> If this is the "remove the plug, fill the
cyl with "stuff" and let sit, blow out, etc" method, then I've basically
done that My consumption went up slightly after a very aggressive treatment
close to that so I was leery about taking the plunge. Maybe this weekend...
--


Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:56:06 GMT, CBrooks >
wrote:

>Lane, would you try the stuck ring fix if it was losing a quart
>every 500 miles? Just curious.


Might make it worse. There is a few things that can help a lot here.
One is to stop using 5w30 oil now as it can run right through a loose
engine. Use 10w30 minimum year round now. If it is hot in summer use
15w40 (never 10w40 because the high VI content can make things worse)
and last if you are still have problems with plugs fouling after this,
use a old trick that can work well. Install a plug that is a few heat
ranges hotter in the place of one fouling as it will help keep it
clean enough to fire.
-----------------
The SnoMan
www.thesnoman.com

In article <Genxg.11277$Oz3.3433@trnddc02>,
says...
> Is their car a Saturn with the same engine as mine? Mine went from a quart
> every 3,000 miles to a quart or so every 1,000 miles in the past two years.
> Seeing as I commute 70 miles round trip daily on NJ's finest highways (i.e.
> stop and go from time to time) I'm a bit worried that I'll snap a ring
> sooner or later and be stuck out there with a big bill, plus an unplanned
> replacement cost.

I've never seen compression or oil rings on a Saturn "snap". The oil
rings will stick but that is the extent of it.

> Lane, would you try the stuck ring fix if it was losing a quart every 500
> miles? Just curious.

If you're talking about the marvel mystery oil thing on saturnfans.com, I
wouldn't hesitate to try it. It's quicker and easier than any alternative
that requires tearing into the motor.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com


"CBrooks" > wrote in message
...
> Lane wrote:
>> I've got a friend that has been driving a car for years that requires
>> adding a quart every couple hundred miles. A quart per thousand isn't
>> that bad by comparison. Just be sure you watch that oil level and don't
>> forget about it. Have you checked your PCV valve? If they get gunked
>> up, owners have reported that they contribute to oil consumption.
>>
>> If you consider attempting to "fix" the problem by tearing apart the
>> motor, consider this -
>>
>> Replacing oil control rings or valve guides to try to reduce consumption
>> is expensive and doesn't guarantee the problem will be solved. What is
>> cheaper - spending a buck every thousand miles to keep the oil level
>> where it should be, or paying to rebuild the motor (~ $2000 likely) which
>> may or may not resovle the problem? I know which I'll choose.
>>
>> I don't know that you should feel the need to sell it, if you're making
>> the assumption that oil consumption means that something very bad is
>> going to happen soon because of it. Lots of owners report burning oil
>> for the life of the vehicle with no other issues. If that is the case,
>> and if it is not quickly getting progressively worse, I'd keep it. A car
>> that's paid for sure beats starting the cycle over again with another 5
>> years of payments...
>>
>> Have you tried the 'stuck ring' fix described in the forums at
>> http://www.saturnfans.com? Many have reported success in reducing oil
>> consumption with that method. Run a search and you're sure to come
>> across it.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
>> ---
>> Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at
>> http://www.evilplastic.com
>>
>>
>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>> news:1ffxg.10917$Oz3.8979@trnddc02...
>>
> Lane, would you try the stuck ring fix if it was losing a quart every 500
> miles? Just curious.

> I've never seen compression or oil rings on a Saturn "snap". The oil
> rings will stick but that is the extent of it.

I would agree. For the poster who has now referred to snapping a ring more
than once - can you provide the basis for your thinking that your Saturn
will do this? I've never heard of it occurring in a Saturn motor. Owners
usually report severely gunked-up/frozen oil control rings upon motor
teardown.

Lane [ lane (at) evilplastic.com ]
---
Visit my Saturn Car Audio and Performance Page at http://www.evilplastic.com


"BläBlä" > wrote in message
...
> In article <Genxg.11277$Oz3.3433@trnddc02>,
> says...
>> Is their car a Saturn with the same engine as mine? Mine went from a
>> quart
>> every 3,000 miles to a quart or so every 1,000 miles in the past two
>> years.
>> Seeing as I commute 70 miles round trip daily on NJ's finest highways
>> (i.e.
>> stop and go from time to time) I'm a bit worried that I'll snap a ring
>> sooner or later and be stuck out there with a big bill, plus an unplanned
>> replacement cost.
>
> I've never seen compression or oil rings on a Saturn "snap". The oil
> rings will stick but that is the extent of it.

> I would agree. For the poster who has now referred to snapping a ring
> more than once - can you provide the basis for your thinking that your
> Saturn will do this? I've never heard of it occurring in a Saturn motor.
> Owners usually report severely gunked-up/frozen oil control rings upon
> motor teardown.

That's me... I figure the only logical progression when the oil burn gets
worse and worse is for something to cause a loss in compression sooner or
later. I typed "snap a ring" or something similar, but what I mean is
"become undrivable legally, safely, etc."
--


Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?
http://tinyurl.com/5apkg
http://www.youthelate.com