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#11
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"Greg Beaulieu" > wrote in message ... > Warren ) wrote: > : Objectively, other than the gripers who should never have bought one, what > : do you think dislikes are that has made ION such a poor seller for Saturn? > : Any ideas? > > Bizarro styling, esp. the wheels/wheel covers and goofy roof rails. > Center-mount instruments > Cheap plasticky interior > Uncomfortable seats > Steering wheel > Rattles/buzzes/build quality > > I think that's a start... > Greg Beaulieu Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada The funky name, ads, and motto ("specifically designed for what ever comes next" ?????), as well as the center mounted instruments, all turned me off. They seemed to be aimed at kids which may have driven off adults, although that may have been part of the plan to get adults into the L series ... ron herfurth 94 SL-1 |
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#13
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In article > ,
Gerald Fay > wrote: > My Honda gets 25 mpg at best. > It has zero,,,yes zero acceleration > It has no room > It doesn't even have a secondary 12v power plug in the back seat area. How Odd, NO DAMM ACCELERATION!!! But it's got "The best 4 cylinder engine in the world" in it! That's like saying you've got the best above ground pool. It really isn't that impressive. Interior? Well, it's designed for midgets. No power plug? The Japanese, and even worse, the Europeans, really don't understand the American desire for cupholders and 'features' I had a dip in a riced up Civic pull next to me and blip the motor at a light the other day. He really thought he could take my Harley. IIRC, i had about a 500 foot lead on him before I scrubbed off some speed and waited for him to catch up. 100 HP, 100 ft-lbs in a 800 lb bike will not be beaten by the same numbers in a car 1500 lbs heavier and 2x as many wheels. Sorry. > My poor daughter got the Ion. > When ever she visits I drive her car for fun Take advantage of the ooo ahh feeling over Hondas and trade your's in. My dad got an Odessy the other year (2003!) and is already talking about it because: * **** mileage. * A transmission that can NOT make up it's mind what gear it's in. * Dealers so arrogant they make BMW shops look friendly. * **** mileage. Oh yeah, the mileage sucks too. I'm guessing it'll be his first / last Honda. This is the first car he's actually hated, and he used to have a Vega (With the ****ty aluminum 4!) when I was young... |
#14
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The Chevy Vega (which I believe was first introduced in the 1970 or 1971
model year) was actually (just a bit too far) ahead of its time. The aluminum alloy engine block was nice and light, but the cylinder walls unfortunately did not hold up well over time and the under-designed cooling system caused problems due to the differing coefficients of thermal expansion with the steel head resulting in head gasket sealing problems, coolant loss, overheating and warpage. I rebuilt several of these engines when I was a lot younger. I eventually learned to use a bored and (steel) sleeved remanufactured short block and replaced the standard (smaller) radiator with the larger HD one used for the AC equipped version. With these modifications and several others including an Edelbrock manifold, Holley 4 barrel carburetor, and headers my tiny little 140 cubic inch 2.3 L engine actually ran very well. And, when I got rid of the car after 60K miles, it still burned almost no oil between 3K changes. Bob "Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message ... > I'm guessing it'll be his first / last Honda. This is the first car > he's actually hated, and he used to have a Vega (With the ****ty > aluminum 4!) when I was young... |
#15
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> Interior? Well, it's designed for midgets. No power plug? The
> Japanese, and even worse, the Europeans, really don't understand the > American desire for cupholders and 'features' > > I had a dip in a riced up Civic pull next to me and blip the motor at a > light the other day. He really thought he could take my Harley. IIRC, > i had about a 500 foot lead on him before I scrubbed off some speed and > waited for him to catch up. 100 HP, 100 ft-lbs in a 800 lb bike will > not be beaten by the same numbers in a car 1500 lbs heavier and 2x as > many wheels. Sorry. > I need to get me one of those evo create motors... The funny thing is those honda kiddies want their cars to sound like a big bad hardly sooo bad with all that exhaust crap they throw on there. It aint gonna happen kids. I've seen people do the same to saturns... Sad sad sad. When I see cars like that at auctions of any make I stay away from them. You couldnt pay me to take something owned by some punk kid who has no idea how to spend his money. |
#16
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Bob Shuman wrote: > > The Chevy Vega (which I believe was first introduced in the 1970 or 1971 > model year) was actually (just a bit too far) ahead of its time. The > aluminum alloy engine block was nice and light, but the cylinder walls > unfortunately did not hold up well over time and the under-designed cooling > system caused problems due to the differing coefficients of thermal > expansion with the steel head resulting in head gasket sealing problems, > coolant loss, overheating and warpage. Don't forget the incredibly heavy cast iron cylinder head. The Vega "aluminum" engine actually weighed more than the cast iron "Pinto" engine. As I recall, the real reason for the cast aluminum block was cost, not to save weight. GM built a cool plant to precision die cast the open deck block. The theroy was less machining was required. Too bad they screwed it up. Ed |
#17
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Philip Nasadowski > wrote:
> I had a dip in a riced up Civic pull next to me and blip the motor at a > light the other day. He really thought he could take my Harley. IIRC, > i had about a 500 foot lead on him before I scrubbed off some speed and > waited for him to catch up. 100 HP, 100 ft-lbs in a 800 lb bike will > not be beaten by the same numbers in a car 1500 lbs heavier and 2x as > many wheels. Sorry. It doesn't take a motorcycle to beat a riced out Honda. Those dumb schmucks almost never spend any money on performance mods. It's all about flash. The drivers never have much driving experience or skill and they always buy automatics. I smoke them all the time in my stock Saturn station wagon (1998 SW2) with a manual. I only do it to the ones that ask for it by blipping the throttle. The ones that actually put money under the hood don't usually blip the throttle, so it works out. -DanD -- # Dan Duncan (kd4igw) http://pcisys.net/~dand # "Qui rides? Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur." (Who are you to laugh? # Change the name, and the story is told of you.) -Horace |
#18
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Honda dealers are funny (odd). Waaaaay too much attitude in general.
"Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message ... > In article > , > Gerald Fay > wrote: > > > My Honda gets 25 mpg at best. > > It has zero,,,yes zero acceleration > > It has no room > > It doesn't even have a secondary 12v power plug in the back seat area. > > How Odd, NO DAMM ACCELERATION!!! > > But it's got "The best 4 cylinder engine in the world" in it! > > That's like saying you've got the best above ground pool. It really > isn't that impressive. > > Interior? Well, it's designed for midgets. No power plug? The > Japanese, and even worse, the Europeans, really don't understand the > American desire for cupholders and 'features' > > I had a dip in a riced up Civic pull next to me and blip the motor at a > light the other day. He really thought he could take my Harley. IIRC, > i had about a 500 foot lead on him before I scrubbed off some speed and > waited for him to catch up. 100 HP, 100 ft-lbs in a 800 lb bike will > not be beaten by the same numbers in a car 1500 lbs heavier and 2x as > many wheels. Sorry. > > > My poor daughter got the Ion. > > When ever she visits I drive her car for fun > > Take advantage of the ooo ahh feeling over Hondas and trade your's in. > My dad got an Odessy the other year (2003!) and is already talking about > it because: > > * **** mileage. > * A transmission that can NOT make up it's mind what gear it's in. > * Dealers so arrogant they make BMW shops look friendly. > * **** mileage. > > Oh yeah, the mileage sucks too. > > I'm guessing it'll be his first / last Honda. This is the first car > he's actually hated, and he used to have a Vega (With the ****ty > aluminum 4!) when I was young... |
#19
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Lots of comments in this thread, including a little Honda bashing. As a
long-time Honda owner / fan, I'd just like to say a few words, um'k? I'm on my third new Honda (plus 1 used). Unfreggin'belivable servicing on my Hondas over the years. My current one is now 5 years old with almost 70k miles and not a single issue! Nada! But it's important to note that all servicing gets done by Honda and strictly by the book. Even more important is that I've never molested any of my cars in even the slightest way. I've been a repeat customer since 1989 for a reason. But will I repeat yet again? Nope. And here's why... First, I just don't like the styling of most Hondas made after the late '80s / early '90s. No “affordable” Honda does it for me anymore in the same way that my co-worker's new '86 Acura Integra did when I first saw it (we didn't even know what an 'Acura' was). Or how about the late '80s Preludes? Simply stunning IMO, even if they never shared the Accords’ and Civics’ stellar reputation for reliability (though always one notch below Toyota). And while I can't say that my '89 CRX Si was a head turner, it did introduce me to the goodness that is Honda, and was probably a better car than the one I REALLY wanted, a new '89 Fiero…that never was. While all three of my Civics have been outstandingly good cars, my '89 CRX Si (the only one actually shipped from Japan) was probably the better built car, as well as my ’86 Integra LS (bought used from my wife’s boss who took really good care of it). Now I’m not saying that the good people of Ohio can't build a good quality car (or can they? - more on that in a moment) as my last two Ohio born Civics are / were as tight as a drum. I’m still impressed with my American built car every time I drive it. Pic of a red ’99 Civic Si for reference… http://www.cvol.net/wheels/civic_si.htm BUT... ....the times are a changing and Honda is going downhill. Regarding the current Civic… http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?...age_num ber=5 “Way too many rattles, way too many shades of metallic in the paint, harsh ride, numb path control on the interstate. Something new from Honda — a loser.” – Car & Driver I didn’t just take Car & Driver’s word for it that Honda sucks (we know how car rags can be sometimes), I investigated these issues for myself. And with the exception of maybe the S2000, Hondas just aren’t built to perfection anymore. Pic of a Honda S2000 for reference (the yellow car)… http://www.saturnperformance.com/pro...lant18pic2.jpg Fit-and-finish are no longer flawless. Maybe still above average, but not PERFECT! If I can’t get that perfect build quality which I’ve become accustom to with even my cheap cars, then I’ll start looking at competitors who usually offer more power, more size, and more features for the money. A less than perfect build quality is going to come back to bite Honda on the ass, and I praise honest car rags like Car & Driver for pointing this out. I sure hope Alabama builds Odysseys better than Ohio is building Civics and Accords. BTW, my parent’s ’00 Accord EX is not up to par either. Their '91 Accord LX was, but not their '00. Hondas are just plain fugly nowadays anyway. I can never forgive them for the '93+ Integra (although the RSX is an improvement). And the Accord, ughhh! They uglyfied it in '94 and it's never looked good since. And neither has the Prelude since '91. UGLY! UGLY! FUUUUGLY! The Accord and Civic sedans are beyond fugly and I'm sure the Civic coupe is next. I blame the stylist in California who are designing these fugly abominations (or anyone still left in Japan)! The "H" is for homely. And I hear that Honda’s 3.5L V6 is complete garbage (but itz got V-TECH, yo!) and the auto transmission is a piece of crap (my brother’s ’02 Odyssey tranny has been recalled). So screw Honda, my next car will be a domestic (and one that’s built in the US of A – not Canada or Mexico). In fact, the new Mustang GT is what my automotive dreams are made of. ’05 Mustang GT!!! V8, baby!, WooHoo! -- Mark ’99 Civic Si |
#20
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In article >,
Blah blah > wrote: > I need to get me one of those evo create motors... Harly motor? Screw the HD ones, get an S&S 113" Dump a better cam in, and have fun. They make wheelies easy and fun... |
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