Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards OR Defying the Laws of Physics

"Shawn Hirn" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> "Bill" > wrote:
>
>> "Shawn Hirn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > Eeyore > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Kurt Lochner wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > AKA sniveled ineptly:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >The new gas mileage standards mandated
>> >> > >by the recently passed energy legislation
>> >> > >defy the laws of physics..
>> >> >
>> >> > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of..
>> >>
>> >> The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre
>> >> V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful
>> >> thinking
>> >> ! But who actually NEEDS one ?
>> >
>> > Strange how Toyota's been doing it for around ten years and their Prius
>> > is probably one of the more popular models on the roads today.
>>
>> If it's one of the most popular models on the road, how come I've never
>> actually seen one on the road?
>
> Where do you live? In the parking lot in the apartment complex where I
> live, there's at least one Prius there every time I walk by. I can't go
> out for a drive without seeing several Priuses on the road.

Less than a half mile outside the central business district of the fourth
largest metropolitan area in the US (DFW), on a major thoroughfare (five
lanes/one way).

- B

"Scott in SoCal" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:06:50 -0600, "Bill" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Shawn Hirn" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >,
>>> Eeyore > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > AKA sniveled ineptly:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >The new gas mileage standards mandated
>>>> > >by the recently passed energy legislation
>>>> > >defy the laws of physics..
>>>> >
>>>> > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of..
>>>>
>>>> The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre
>>>> V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful
>>>> thinking
>>>> ! But who actually NEEDS one ?
>>>
>>> Strange how Toyota's been doing it for around ten years and their Prius
>>> is probably one of the more popular models on the roads today.
>>
>>If it's one of the most popular models on the road, how come I've never
>>actually seen one on the road?
>
> Because you have the visual acuity of Mr. Magoo?

LOL. Good try. Or perhaps here in Texas they just don't sell as well as in
the People's Republic of California.

- B

On Dec 29, 3:27 pm, wrote:
> The new gas mileage standards mandated
> by the recently passed energy legislation
> defy the laws of physics...

You are lying, Leonard.

>but Democrats,
> including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
> don't seem to care.
> ---===0===---
>
> Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards
> By Jack Ward
> December 29, 2007
>
> The other day I took my Toyota Sienna van in for a
> smog check. While I was waiting, I heard the news
> that our Congress Critters were about to pass new
> Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ) standards.
> The new fuel efficiency law will require manufacturers
> to meet a fleet wide average of 35 miles per gallon for
> cars, SUV's, and small trucks. A fleet average of 35
> mpg is a 40% increase in fuel mileage over the
> existing requirement. My van gets an average of 20+
> mpg and can carry 6 passengers and luggage in
> comfort. My wife drives a Honda Civic which gets 30+
> mpg. But neither of our vehicles would meet the new
> congressional requirements. It is obvious that the
> CAFÉ standards would effectively outlaw most
> current cars, vans, trucks, and SUVs.
>

Just stop building Suburbans and Hummers and the fleet avg would go
up.

> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an
> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership
> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles,
> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. The
> standard cars and small trucks failed immediately.
> Then I spotted the smallest car on the lot, a
> sub-compact Yaris. But even the sub-compact Yaris
> failed the Congress Critters new efficiency
> requirements. The Yaris had a maximum 36 mpg on
> the highway, but its combined city and highway
> average was below the required 35 mpg. The Toyota
> Camry Hybrid also failed the new CAFÉ standards.
> The only car that met the new CAFÉ standards was
> the Prius Hybrid.
>
> The efficiency of an internal combustion engine is
> based on total energy of the fuel and the amount of
> energy used to perform useful work. So by
> legislating a fuel efficiency increase of about 40%,
> our Congress Critters were attempting to rewrite Laws
> of Thermodynamics.

Nonsense.

>Congressional leaders were
> warned that the mandated changes may not be
> technologically or economically possible. But the
> enlightened Democrat leaders disagreed. House
> Speaker Nancy Pelosi, (D-Ca.), was heavily involved
> in crafting the legislation and declared that "It's
> groundbreaking in what it will do." She is right. I
> wonder if she also plans to rewrite the Law of Gravity.
>

Well, you right-wingers want to rewrite the Law of Evolution, the
Second Law of Thermodynamics...

> In a previous column I addressed the prototypical
> micro-car envisioned by the Congress Critters - the
> Smart Car 'ForTwo'. The Smart Car 'ForTwo' is about
> 4 feet shorter and 1,000 pounds lighter than a Mini
> Cooper, so it isn't suitable for soccer moms.
> Throughout the 1950's and 60's manufacturers offered
> micro-cars but the public wasn't interested. But our
> Congress Critters know best and will now require you
> to drive one.
>
> Researchers at Harvard University and the Brookings
> Institution found that these micro-cars are not as safe
> as the current U.S. fleet. Their research found that for
> every 100 pounds shaved off cars to meet CAFÉ
> standards between 440 and 780 additional people
> were killed in auto accidents. This means that an
> additional total of 2,200 to 3,900 lives will be lost per
> model year. Adrian Lund, of the Insurance Institute
> for Highway Safety said, "Fatalities are much higher
> with small, lightweight vehicles." Politicians are
> force-feeding the micro-cars on the American public
> even if that means these vehicles will be less safe.
>

That is totally false.

> But what kind of cars do our Congress Critters have?
> Spies in Washington DC tell us the congressional
> parking lot is filled with large sedans, SUV's, and
> trucks. While there are a few economy cars in the lot,
> the estimated mileage for the cars in the lot is less
> than 20 mpg. But don't expect to see Ted Kennedy
> in a Smart Car because we know that politicians reek
> with hypocrisy. They exempt themselves from the
> very laws they expect us to follow. So, rest assured
> that the Congress Critters will not be driving the
> micro-cars that they will require you to drive. This is
> supposed to be the 'Land of the Free' so why should
> Americans be denied the opportunity to choose the
> vehicle that meets their needs?
>
> The New Media Journal.us (c) 2007

On Dec 30, 1:36 pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:33:41 +0000, Eeyore
>
> > wrote:
> >In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car
> >sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving.
>
> In the USA, diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. This wasn't always
> the case, which accounts for the initial surge of popularity for
> diesel-powered cars in the US back during the mid 1970s. Nowadays,
> diesel costs even more than premium gasoline, so where's the advantage
> of a diesel-powered car?
>
> Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a
> DIESEL-electric hybrid?

Actually diesel fuel stays about the same, while gas goes up and down,
so sometimes gas is cheaper than diesel and sometimes not.

In article >,
"What Me Worry?" > wrote:

> > They simply weigh very
> > little, minimize drag in all forms, and are run in such a manner to
> > maximize fuel economy
>
> That is the formula for the 300 MPG hybrid that is in production *right
> now*.
>
> http://www.aptera.com/
>
> Why not tell us how the Aptera guys "don't understand basic engineering."
> That should be worth a laugh.

Sure. They probably understand basic engineering. And because of that,
their answer is a car with barely enough room for two people with next
to no trunks space.

And we still don't know what it's actual mileage will be, because it's
not yet in production.

In fact, there's no firm date yet set for it to go into production.

Because they don't even have the funding yet.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

In article >,
Garth Almgren > wrote:

> Around 12/30/2007 11:18 PM, What Me Worry? wrote:
>
> > "Eeyore" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> What Me Worry? wrote:
> >>
> >>> while buyers for the 300MPG hybrids (ready for production right now)
> >>> will be on a 2-year waiting list.
> >
> >> There is no 300 mpg hybrid.
> >
> > http://www.aptera.com/
> >
> > Better tell Aptera that their car doesn't exist.
>
> Aptera is well aware that their car doesn't exist yet. From their FAQ:
>
> *When are you starting production?
> Our goal is to begin production in late 2008
>
>
> Plus numerous references to what "will be" available features and
> performance numbers "once we have begun production".
>
> IOW, vaporware.

Turns out that before they can begin production they have a little
problem of finding $20M - $40M in investment...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Dec 31, 2:11 am, "What Me Worry?" > wrote:

> Please respond so I can tear your argument limb from limb. Again. Asshole.

### You can't tear a piece of toilet paper, let alone
an argument. <GG>

--- ---
There are three types of people that you
can_not_talk into behaving well. The
stupid, the religious fanatic, and the evil.

1-The stupid aren't smart enough to
follow the logic of what you say. You
have to tell them what is right in very
simple terms. If they don't agree, then
you'll never be able to change their mind.

2- the religious fanatic

If what you say goes against their
religious belief, they will cling to that
religious belief even if it means their
death."

3- There is no way to reform evil-
Not in a million years

There is no way to convince the terrorists,
serial killers, paedophiles, and predators
to change their evil ways. They knew what
they were doing was wrong, but that
knowledge didn't stop them. It only made
them more careful in how they went about
performing their evil acts.

On Dec 30, 5:36 pm, "V-for-Vendicar"
> wrote:
> > wrote
>
>
>
> >>> "The efficiency of an internal combustion engine is
> >>> based on total energy of the fuel and the amount of
> >>> energy used to perform useful work. So by
> >>> legislating a fuel efficiency increase of about 40%,
> >>> our Congress Critters were attempting to rewrite Laws
> >>> of Thermodynamics."
> V for Vendicar wrote:
> >> Over 30 teams from the U.S., Canada, India and Bahrain participated in
> >> the
> >> SAE's annual mileage competition June 7-8, 2007 in Marshall, Michigan.
> >> The
> >> competition requires the development and construction of a single person,
> >> fuel efficient vehicle. All vehicles must be powered by a small
> >> four-cycle
> >> engine, have a minimum of three wheels, and the driver must be fully
> >> enclosed to prevent contact with the ground. The winner is based on a
> >> combination of best fuel economy and points from technical inspections of
> >> the vehicles. The 2006 winner, the University of British Columbia,
> >> achieved
> >> a record 3,145 miles per gallon!
>
> "Brent P" > wrote
>
> > These vehicles are completely irrelevant to anything useful for
> > transportation on public roads.
>
> The KKKonservative claim was that such cars can't exist because they would
> require a rewrite of the laws of thermodynamics.
>
> When were those thermodynamic laws rewritten to allow the 3,145 MPG car in
> the above contest?
>
> "Brent P" > wrote
>
> > They are as I recall a recombent bicycle with an ICE that runs at full
> > throttle and then coasts, rinse and repeat.
>
> With a battery assisted recumbant that has a full enclosure, Joe Average
> can hit a speed of 40 mph without breaking a sweat.

### But will they pass the Highway Safety regs?? <G>

"Bill" > wrote in message
. net...
>
> "Scott in SoCal" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:06:50 -0600, "Bill" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Shawn Hirn" > wrote in message
...
>>>> In article >,
>>>> Eeyore > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > AKA sniveled ineptly:
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >The new gas mileage standards mandated
>>>>> > >by the recently passed energy legislation
>>>>> > >defy the laws of physics..
>>>>> >
>>>>> > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of..
>>>>>
>>>>> The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre
>>>>> V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> ! But who actually NEEDS one ?
>>>>
>>>> Strange how Toyota's been doing it for around ten years and their Prius
>>>> is probably one of the more popular models on the roads today.
>>>
>>>If it's one of the most popular models on the road, how come I've never
>>>actually seen one on the road?
>>
>> Because you have the visual acuity of Mr. Magoo?
>
> LOL. Good try. Or perhaps here in Texas they just don't sell as well as in
> the People's Republic of California.
>
> - B

Or maybe because one can't install a gun rack in the rear view window?
>
>

In article >,
The Ghost In The Machine > wrote:

>In any event, cities are perfectly planned for the era in
>which they are built -- cheap gas, high speed travel,
>convenient parking for a smaller number of people.

Most East Coast US cities were planned for an era when there was no
car and no gasoline.

The fact that the automobile works so well in them, and mass transit
so poorly (with the exception of NYC) is simply a testament to how
much mass transit sucks.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.