Most automobiles are made of CHEAP materials !!!!!

On Fri, 18 Dec 2004, Guy Noir - private eye wrote:

> >> As far as I am concerned Pintos were great cars and the fire thing is
> >> just a media driven lie. In 1972 I bought my first new car, a 1972
> >> Pinto. I drove it to college for 3 years and then sold it to my Sister.
> >
> >Uh-huh. And it got hit in the rear how many times? So you know the fire
> >thing is a lie...how, exactly?

> There was one (or 2) isolated cases

Incorrect. There were many. They continue to this day in late-model
Mustangs -- your hair would probably fall right out if you saw the dollar
amount Ford has quietly paid over the last three decades to prevent
"Mustang" being uttered in the same sentence as "Pinto".

> I've had several and have been reliable and easy to fix.

"Reliable and easy to fix" is not the opposite of "Firetrap".

TeGGer® wrote:


>
>
> Sure there will. And just like any other era, it will be the desirable
> cars, regardless of affinity to rust, that will be saved.
>
> My problem is modern plastic interiors. How do you restore those?
>
>

I see plastic intake manifolds and obsolete chipsets in the ECM as a
MUCH bigger problem. That's the kind of thing that will prevent today's
cars from being around in 40 years, not the interior bits. Well, that
and the fact that today's cars have absolutely ZERO in the way of
character. Except for Vipers and maybe the new Mustang and a few
European cars. Maybe the occasional Mazda RX. Certainly nothing with
"Nissan," "Honda," or "Toyota" on the hood.

Bob wrote:

> "Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
> n.umich.edu...
>
>>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Steve wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In 50-75 years, there will still be driveable Packards from the 40s,
>>>Duesenbergs from the 30s, Model T's from the 20s, Cadillacs and Chrysler
>>>300s from the 50s, and Roadrunners, Barracudas, Torinos, Mustangs, and
>>>GTOs from the 60s left in the world.
>>
>>...Valiants and Darts...
>>
>
> If you put those on the list you may as well put Pintos and Vegas on it too,
> or maybe AMC's Pacer.
> Bob
>

For one thing, comparing a Mopar A-body to a Pinto or Vega is like
comparing a Bugatti Royale to a Fiat.

For another, the Pintos and Vegas are ALREADY GONE. But, believe it or
not, I keep seeing more and more Gremlins and Pacers at car shows. I ask
myself "why?" but there you have it.

TeGGer® wrote:

> Nate Nagel > floridly penned in
> :
>
>
>
>>Of course, a Valiant or Dart is a nice enough car that it may be worth
>>keeping alive, while a Pinto is... well... a Pinto, and a Pacer, while
>>a good car, is a hideously ugly piece of sheetmetal.
>
>
>
>
> And has been so voted in numerous "Most Ugly Car" surveys...
>

But since the debut of the Pontiac Asstek, Honda Excrement, and Scum XB,
the Pacer has been moved way down on that list. WAAAAAY down.... Maybe
even onto the "attractive by comparison" list...

Bob wrote:


>
> Sorry Nate, but you missed my point that Vegas, Pintos and Pacers were all
> junk much like the Valiants and Darts. They aren't in the same league with
> collectable cars like Mustangs, Roadrunners, 'Cudas, Cameros, etc.
> Bob

Tell that to the folks who own things like a '68 Dart GT or a 340
(Valiant) Duster. Darts and Valiants are actually very collectable.

Bob wrote:

> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Anyone who thinks that a Valiant or Dart is junk is an idiot. Yeah, I'm
>>talking about you. Collectible, maybe not, but junk, no damn way.
>
>
> Well, one mans junk is another mans treasure I guess.
> Bob
>
>

Obviously, since you had "Camaro" on your "treasure" list ;-)

In article >, Steve > wrote:
>TeGGer® wrote:
>
>> Nate Nagel > floridly penned in
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>>Of course, a Valiant or Dart is a nice enough car that it may be worth
>>>keeping alive, while a Pinto is... well... a Pinto, and a Pacer, while
>>>a good car, is a hideously ugly piece of sheetmetal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> And has been so voted in numerous "Most Ugly Car" surveys...
>>
>
>But since the debut of the Pontiac Asstek, Honda Excrement, and Scum XB,
>the Pacer has been moved way down on that list. WAAAAAY down.... Maybe
>even onto the "attractive by comparison" list...

I do not know anything about the Scum XB, the Aztec is a godawful excuse
for a minivan, but the Honda Element has struck me as a vehicle that is as
functional as it is ugly.

Richard Bell wrote:

> In article >, Steve > wrote:
>
>>TeGGer® wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Nate Nagel > floridly penned in
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Of course, a Valiant or Dart is a nice enough car that it may be worth
>>>>keeping alive, while a Pinto is... well... a Pinto, and a Pacer, while
>>>>a good car, is a hideously ugly piece of sheetmetal.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And has been so voted in numerous "Most Ugly Car" surveys...
>>>
>>
>>But since the debut of the Pontiac Asstek, Honda Excrement, and Scum XB,
>>the Pacer has been moved way down on that list. WAAAAAY down.... Maybe
>>even onto the "attractive by comparison" list...
>
>
> I do not know anything about the Scum XB,

My swipe at "Scion XB." Its that butt-ugly snub-nosed box on wheels that
makes an Aztek look highly refined and sporty.

TeGGer® wrote:

> Steve > floridly penned in news:x_CdnQg2xeJ-7FXcRVn-
> :
>
>
>>TeGGer® wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Sure there will. And just like any other era, it will be the desirable
>>>cars, regardless of affinity to rust, that will be saved.
>>>
>>>My problem is modern plastic interiors. How do you restore those?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I see plastic intake manifolds and obsolete chipsets in the ECM as a
>>MUCH bigger problem.
>
>
>
>
> Hmm. Never thought of that. 40 years from now, who's going to set up a fab
> to make ASICs for specific vehicles? Will we be limited to scrounging the
> junkyards for chips that are still good? Will chipmaking evolve to the
> point where they can cheaply make tiny quantities? Or will we just use a
> right-size generic chip with the correct number of pins, and just flash-
> program it to suit?
>

The latter, most likely. There are already aftermarket EFI systems for
old cars (Accel, Edelbrock, and the home-brew Megasquirt) that use a
generic controller that you program to your application.

But that doesn't solve problems like finding the right stepper motor to
fit in and activate the idle air controller, fabbing a new intake
manifold to replace the one that ozone and heat have made as brittle as
potato chips, etc.

"TeGGer®" > writes:
>
> Yeah, most of them badly battered and with Russian UAZ diesel engines and
> drivetrains. How easy is it to find new valves for a 1955 Packard engine in
> Cuba?

Find - hard. Machine new ones - easy.

There was a news report on Cuba recently, that showed enthusiasts
keeping Harley motorcycles going. Evidently 40 years of
embargo-caused parts shortages have bred a generation of machinists
skilled enough to reproduce what they need.

In the US, automation + high labor costs = replace.
In Cuba, no automation + low labor costs = repair.