The Art of Haggling and Other Questions About the Civic Hybrid

"pay for the privilege of being pious"? you think i want to spend
thousands of dollars just to be "holier than thou?" you think i want
to spend practically all my savings just to keep up with the joneses?
what exactly do you know about me anyway? and at no point did i ask
for you b.s. on whether or not i should buy the car. so stick it.

matt wrote:
> "pay for the privilege of being pious"? you think i want to spend
> thousands of dollars just to be "holier than thou?" you think i want
> to spend practically all my savings just to keep up with the joneses?
> what exactly do you know about me anyway? and at no point did i ask
> for you b.s. on whether or not i should buy the car. so stick it.
>

huh?

by the way - that was a reponse to an earlier post by tegger, who when
he's not making assumptions offers some great advice on haggling.

TeGGer® wrote:
> John Ings > wrote in
> :
>
>
>
>>If manufacturers really wanted to go green they wouldn't be ducking
>>through that legal loophole that classifies those bloody great things
>>as trucks.
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Excellent idea, Mr.Ings.
>
> Really, though, all North Americans are doing by buying SUVs and minivans
> is trying to buy the same size cars they always have. They can't actually
> buy a big *car* that isn't expensive anymore because they've been regulated
> out of existence.

ford crown vic/mercury grand marquis

nobody wants em, tho. cept for govt agencies, and bluehaired old ladies.

why?

because everyone wants to be seen as ruffem tuffem rugged
individualists, blazing new trails in their big audacious, blinged-out
regurgitators. they may not have a motorcycle to put in one, but dammit-
they want people to think they "offroad at glamis", remove the trailer
stopper thingie to tow jetskis or the boat they dont have, etc.

ever take a close look at an H2? big blinged out box, but not much
actual *room* inside.

i work with a 25 year old girl that had to have a new yukon XL. works 2
F/T jobs, no time to date, always tired, no social life. maybe the
$600/mo payments have something to do with it? at least she has a bigass
place to nap between jobs. she had a yukon XL, but traded it in on this
one because its the "new style".

whens GM ever come out with a new style?

"SoCalMike" > wrote
snip
> i work with a 25 year old girl that had to have a new yukon XL. works 2
> F/T jobs, no time to date, always tired, no social life. maybe the
> $600/mo payments have something to do with it? at least she has a bigass
> place to nap between jobs. she had a yukon XL, but traded it in on this
> one because its the "new style".

Doesn't this just drive you to drink?

I'm taking all the money I'm saving with my beloved old heap and spending
it becoming a bourgeois ski bum...

Elle Navorski wrote:
> "SoCalMike" > wrote
> snip
>
>>i work with a 25 year old girl that had to have a new yukon XL. works 2
>>F/T jobs, no time to date, always tired, no social life. maybe the
>>$600/mo payments have something to do with it? at least she has a bigass
>>place to nap between jobs. she had a yukon XL, but traded it in on this
>>one because its the "new style".
>
>
> Doesn't this just drive you to drink?

eh. not really. when my co-worker became my manager i figured hed start
saving up to buy a house or condo or whatnot. at the time, hed just had
a kid and really *needed* the management position. now he has another on
the way! him, wife, and bebe all live in an apartment.

so whats he do? trades in his 2000 yukon (not the XL!) for a 2004. takes
the depreciation hit, of course. puts 24" chrome wheels on it, and
teevee screens.

me? i bought a condo 3 years ago after my 98 civic was paid off. ill
never pay more than $627/mo for a house payment. now i DO have the money
for toys, since thats locked in and i get raises every year. in 20 or 30
years (if im still paying on it) thatll be practically nothing.

i think ill keep the civic, and just not feel guilty buying 2-wheeled
toys when i feel like. hopefully buying a dualsport today. 2 wheelers
are my vice, and having the paid off civic helps pay for em.


>
> I'm taking all the money I'm saving with my beloved old heap and spending
> it becoming a bourgeois ski bum...
>

different strokes, eh? id rather spend on electronics and 2 wheeled fun.

matt wrote:

<sniped for brevity>

> Hello All!
> My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
> Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
> essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
> can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership.

Decide what YOU WANT to pay for it (do your homework) then go to a
dealer and begin the dance. On this model be prepared to pay M.S.R.P. and
maybe even more... Most (so called) Green people (Ed Bagely Jr. comes to
mind) are more than willing to pay extra to be labeled "Green." So there
is little incentive on the dealer's part to sell for less than M.S.R.P. (or
more.)

> I was also curious to see if anyone knew the answers to the questions
> that the salesman couldn't answer, specifically:
> - What happens to the batteries after they are replaced?

That will depend on where YOU choose to deal with the problem of
exhausted IMA batteries. A Honda dealer will turn them in to their
remanufacturing depot. And the batteries will be recycled. There will
likely be some hazardous waste that will have to be stored in accordance to
Haz-Mat regulations.


> The ecofriendly nature of this car is a big selling point for us.

You say this; but is this really the reason? After all the car
still uses dead dinosaur products, so just how "ecofriendly"[sic] are you?


> - Has anyone any expereince with problems in extreme weather
> conditions? (tough starts in extreme cold, for example)

The Civic Hybrid also has a 12v battery, just like other cars. So
cold weather shouldn't be a problem; unless by extreme you're speaking -40F
or less. Any car can experience problems in that type of extreme weather
conditions.


> - Can some one explain, in as plain a language as possible, under what
> circumstances the auto stop feature occurs in the engine?

FROM THE OWNER'S MANUAL: AUTO (CVT) TRANSMISSION.
To maximize fuel economy, your Civic Hybrid has an Auto Idle Stop function.
Under certain conditions, the engine will shut off when you
come to a stop.
all of the following conditions must be met for Auto Idle Stop to occur.
Those conditions a
The engine coolant is nearly up to normal operating temperature.
The shift lever is in D or N.
You are not pressing on the accelerator pedal.
The IMA battery is charged enough to operate the system.
The ECON mode (air conditioning) is selected, and the outside temperature
is above freezing, or the fan speed control dial is off.
There is adequate vacuum reserve for the power brakes.
When these conditions are met after the vehicle speed has exceeded 10 mph
(16 km/h), the engine will shut off as you are braking to a stop and
the vehicle speed goes below 5 mph (8 km/h).
The engine will start again when you release the brake pedal.
The Auto Idle Stop function may not activate if the IMA battery temperature
is too hot or too cold.

There is more in the Owner's manual but this is the jest of it.


> Any feedback at all on this car is appreciated. Just for reference,
> both of the cars we're looking at have the CVT transmission.
>
> Have great day,
> Matt

--
Tp,

-------- __o
----- -\<. -------- __o
--- ( )/ ( ) ---- -\<.
-------------------- ( )/ ( )
-----------------------------------------

No Lawsuit Ever Fixed A Moron...

Car Salesmen rank with crooked lawyers but I realize they're trying to make
a living.

Avoid buying a car from someone you know. They'd probably overcharge their
own mother to get a bigger commission.

Beware of the car sales trick when you've agreed on a price, he runs inside
to get the keys for you and comes back saying his sales manager won't go for
deal unless you can pay $*** more. He's waving the keys in front of you and
you're wanting the car bad enough, you'll pay anything to get the car and go
home. Stand firm and walk away. They need to know that you are really,
really wanting to buy and this is one of the tricks they do to fatten their
commission.

If they are unable to agree on your final price (a reasonable offer, say
$250-$400 over invoice or so), thank them and walk out. Walk out slow.
Take your time, look at the cars in the show room on the way out. They'll
probably have another salesman come out and bring you back in, saying that
you got your price. With the last Honda I purchased, I was back in my old
car, about to start the engine when another salesguy comes running out to
tell me my salesman agreed to the price! This worked several times so far.

And, be prepared to spend a lot of time there, it's pretty much an all day
deal, negotiating, paperwork, final prep and delivery of your new prized
machine.

Good Luck, Bx

"matt" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello All!
> My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
> Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
> essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
> can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership. We feel this
> is an important but somewhat unsavory part of purchasing a car. (I
> know that some people view haggling as a sport - I hope they will sound
> off here!) There may be some general rules of thumb to follow, but I
> don't know them and would like any tips anyone could give. We'd like
> to get them to come down off the price a bit - I think the sticker on
> the '05 is around $20,000.
>
> I was also curious to see if anyone knew the answers to the questions
> that the salesman couldn't answer, specifically:
> - What happens to the batteries after they are replaced? The
> ecofriendly nature of this car is a big selling point for us. But the
> fate of dead batteries is unknown to us right now. Would hate to think
> they'd end up in a landfill or something.
> - Has anyone any expereince with problems in extreme weather
> conditions? (tough starts in extreme cold, for example)
> - Can some one explain, in as plain a language as possible, under what
> circumstances the auto stop feature occurs in the engine? My wife and
> I read a little about it in the manual on the test drive, but we're a
> bit confused still. Do all of the conditions listed in the manual have
> to be present before the engine shuts down? Or just one or two?
>
> Any feedback at all on this car is appreciated. Just for reference,
> both of the cars we're looking at have the CVT transmission.
>
> Have great day,
> Matt
>
>