Paint stripping or not?

Kafertoys wrote:

>>I'm a-gonna have to check that out. Especially if it's a zinc primer.
>>That sounds like the cat's behind for what I need to do (I have some NOS
>>fenders for one of my "other" cars - which are notorious for rusting out
>>in an inaccessable area behind a brace which is part of the fender
>>itself and would be fairly difficult to remove and replace without
>>destroying the fender.
>>
>>nate
>>
>
>
> Its Carolina Chem Strip
> 348 MacArthur ln Burlington NC 27217
> # 584 5613 ask for jimmy
>
> If you have them do it, let me know I will try to get you my price on
> stripping.
>
> Mario
>

Thanks, I appreciate it, it may be a couple weeks or longer, I don't
even have the car home yet, but I will have to do something about it
this winter.

nate


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

>WOW
>two things you went to the trouble of striping it to bare metal then maaco
>paints it I feel for you. truly<

Having stripped two cars now chemically and with the help of a grinder with a
36 grit disk I would say if the existing paint is solid and there is no rust
bubling through there is no reason to go through all that work. Just scuff and
shoot a good sealer or sandable primer over it.
--Dan E

I've been doing thios for 30 years so here's my 2 cents:
If it's original paint (not likely on an old car) do not strip it. Seal it
with epoxy primer & paint it.
If it's been painted strip it with chemicals, media blasting, dipping, or
an air buffer w/sponge pad (or a locked D.A.) & 80 grit. The method
depends on several things. My preference is the air buffer; however, some
paint will just gall up the sandpaper (usually laquer) so that method gets
canned. Then you go to chemicals; "Aircraft Remover" brand is the best. Do
small areas at a time (a couple of square feet) in a well ventilated area
& with rubber gloves. Apply a healthy layer of the chemical with a brush &
wait for the paint to bubble or soften & scrape it off with a bondo
spreader or wide putty knife. Usually it takes more than one application
(or several) to cut through several layers of paint. Once down to metal or
the last coat of primer wash the surface clean & sand with a D.A.
(unlocked) & 80 grit to clean metal.
This leaves blasting or dipping. I left these for last 'cause you have to
get someone else to do it so it costs more. If the car has no major rust
(or you're only doing the outside) media blasting is the way to go. If
there *is* major rust dipping will get it out the best, but the car has to
be *completely* dis-assembled. Just remember dipping may get it down to
bare metal in places you can't prime back to prevent further rusting (If
the place dips it in zink primer afterward that's fantastic - scuff the
zink & epoxy over that).
Once down to bare metal sand it with the 80 grit & prime it with epoxy
before doing *anything* else. You can even bondo over the epoxy as it
sticks better to the epoxy than bare metal (& it actually feathers better
to).
From there the finish work is a whole 'nother subject... ;^P
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

"ThaDriver" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
>
> Just remember dipping may get it down to
> bare metal in places you can't prime back to prevent further rusting (If
> the place dips it in zink primer afterward that's fantastic - scuff the
> zink & epoxy over that).
>
>

..............There are so many spot welded pieces in a bug body that have
overlapping joints, I'd guess that the corrosion in those joints would be
untreatable after dipping. Even if those areas are sealed with primer,
there's enough flexing & vibration to break those seals over time, I'd bet.

>..........There are so many spot welded pieces in a bug body that have
overlapping joints, I'd guess that the corrosion in those joints would be
untreatable after dipping. Even if those areas are sealed with primer,
there's enough flexing & vibration to break those seals over time, I'd
bet.
********
Yes that's the problem with dipping, but if there's rust in those joints
then dipping is the only way to get it (if not all of it) out. Going back
with seam sealer will help protect them from moisture & keep the rust from
spreading (so fast), & it's flexable. Of course the *only* way to be sure
you get *all* the rust out of the joints is to *completely* cut the body
apart (drilling out all the spot welds), blast or dip the parts to bare
metal, & weld it back together.
But if you dip to strip & then dip it in zink primer, then epoxy prime
everything you can & seam seal all the joints you'll have something that
will last for decades - as long as the rust between the joints isn't too
bad in the first place.
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

"ThaDriver" > wrote in message alkaboutautos.com>...
> I've been doing thios for 30 years so here's my 2 cents:
> If it's original paint (not likely on an old car) do not strip it. Seal it
> with epoxy primer & paint it.
> If it's been painted strip it with chemicals, media blasting, dipping, or
> an air buffer w/sponge pad (or a locked D.A.) & 80 grit. The method
> depends on several things. My preference is the air buffer; however, some
> paint will just gall up the sandpaper (usually laquer) so that method gets
> canned. Then you go to chemicals; "Aircraft Remover" brand is the best. Do
> small areas at a time (a couple of square feet) in a well ventilated area
> & with rubber gloves. Apply a healthy layer of the chemical with a brush &
> wait for the paint to bubble or soften & scrape it off with a bondo
> spreader or wide putty knife. Usually it takes more than one application
> (or several) to cut through several layers of paint. Once down to metal or
> the last coat of primer wash the surface clean & sand with a D.A.
> (unlocked) & 80 grit to clean metal.
> This leaves blasting or dipping. I left these for last 'cause you have to
> get someone else to do it so it costs more. If the car has no major rust
> (or you're only doing the outside) media blasting is the way to go. If
> there *is* major rust dipping will get it out the best, but the car has to
> be *completely* dis-assembled. Just remember dipping may get it down to
> bare metal in places you can't prime back to prevent further rusting (If
> the place dips it in zink primer afterward that's fantastic - scuff the
> zink & epoxy over that).
> Once down to bare metal sand it with the 80 grit & prime it with epoxy
> before doing *anything* else. You can even bondo over the epoxy as it
> sticks better to the epoxy than bare metal (& it actually feathers better
> to).
> From there the finish work is a whole 'nother subject... ;^P
> HTH,
> ~ Paul
> aka "Tha Driver"
>
> Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

Exactly the help I was looking for....Thank you. BTW could you write
me a 20-30 page manual on Finish work?

lol
Matt

I wrote this for another forum; should cover most of your questions.

On a good paint job (which are all I do :-) I would spend a minimum of
$400 in materials prepping that car (not including paint). I use only
catalyst-hardened primers & paints, starting with PPG epoxy primer &
building up imperfections for blocking with Sikkens high-build primer (if
needed). Then another coat of epoxy as a sealer before spraying a *minimum*
amount of basecoat color(s) (just enough to cover well) & topping off with
Sikkens clear. I keep buildup to a minimum to minimize chipping. These
paint jobs will last for at least 20 years if the car is parked outside;
probably 50 or more if taken care of. Just wanted to prepare you for the
sticker shock when you start buying materials. Of course, you can cut alot
of corners, & you most likely won't use the high-dollar Sikkens stuff. But
it appears that you plan to have someone else shoot the paint, so ask them
about sealing it with epoxy, as it will minimixe shrinking & make the paint
stick better. Use base-coat clear-coat to guard against UV rays (the clear
keeps it from fading). Here again, the paint & clear cost may be higher
than a soild color, but it'll be worth it.
If you want to do it right, take EVERYTHING off of the car that you can;
all trim, door handles, lights, etc. Sand it THOROUGHLY, all the way up &
into the corners & crevices. CLEAN it THOROUGHLY with a good "wax & grease
remover": wipe it on with a clean cloth & wipe it dry with another clean
cloth - don't let it air dry. Do it twice to make sure you get all the wax
& grease off of the surface. DO IT A DOZEN TIMES BEFORE PAINTING IF YOU'VE
BEEN USING SILICONE ANY WHERE AROUND THE VEHICLE. Well maybe not a dozen,
but AT LEAST three. Silicone will travel through the air for hundreds of
feet, & make the paint "fisheye" (seperate from the surface leaving small
craters).
Well, those paragraphs kinda get ahead of us here...
Anyway, here is the basic sequence you'll want to use.
1) Metal work. This means hammering out/working the dents, changing parts
like fenders, & lining up all the body panels (hood, fenders, doors, &
trunklid). A good rule of thumb when working metal is to use two blows
instead of one; that is, work out the dents slowly so as to not stretch
the metal. Start with lining the doors to fit the body at the 1/4 panel &
around the opening. Then line the fenders to the doors, & the hood to the
fenders.
2) Stripping. You may not need to, but probably will 'cause most older
cars have alot of paint on them & it's not a solid base to shoot over. The
DA I mentioned before - if you find a *real* DA that locks down - will
usually do a good job of taking it down to bare metal using 80 grit in the
lock-down mode. I use an 8-inch air buffer & 80 grit most of the time. If
that dosen't work (if the paint is too soft & fills up the paper too soon)
use a chemical stripper. I use "Aircraft Stripper" (brand name).
3) Filler. This means bondo :-) Use any good brand name, the new ones
with "micro spheres" are probably the best. If you strip the car to metal,
& have the money to spend, go ahead & put one good thick (not reduced) coat
of epoxy on it. If not, grind ALL the paint off of the areas that need
filling back several inches beyond the dented area. You do not want bondo
over anything but bare metal (or fiberglass) or epoxy primer - no
exceptions! Sand the bondo with 40 grit to start with. When you've got it
just about right, finish with 80 grit. Use a flat block on the flat areas
& whatever it takes on the rounded contours. Any block that fits your hand
& the sandpaper will work. On "outside" rounded areas the flat block will
work if you "roll" it over the surface diagonally at 45 degrees in both
directions. On inside curves, use a flexable pad or peice of PVC - things
like that. Always change directions when sanding, & try not to sand in a
straight line.
4) Priming/blocking. Once you're finished with the filler, prime it. I
again use a coat of epoxy & then two or three coats if needed of
high-build primer on the areas that were worked. *Very important* - give
the primer several days if you can to completely dry before blocking.
Spray some black "guide coat" paint (flat black laquer works well) over
the primed areas in a very light mist. Don't try to cover the surface,
just let a light mist fall on it. Block the primer using a block or if you
can find one a good paint paddle. For large flat areas, Home Depot has some
5-gallon paddles that work well, On smaller areas & rounded surfaces a
regular paddle works well if you can find a flat/straight one. The smaller
one will flex a little, allowing you to put pressure where you need it (on
the high spots & rounded surfaces) to knock the surface down. Wrap the
full sheet of paper around the paddle & tear off two sides as the paper
wears out. Start with 180 grit - wet if you can, with a trickle flowing
over the surface as you sand. Finish with 220 to 320 grit. The high/low
spots will become apparent as soon as you start sanding using the guide
coat. Block everything untill it's smooth - all the guide coat will be
gone. One thing to remember: when initially trying to flatten an apparent
low spot, you have to sand the entire area around it down to where that
surface is - you don't actually sand the spot that's not smooth untill the
area around it is down. If an area is too low to block out (you start to
hit metal), use a catalyst-hardened putty to fill it. I use Fiberglass
Evercoat (brand name) I think it's #406.
Re-prime the blocked areas. If needed, block & re-prime again. Again let
the primer dry.
5) If everything looks good, it should be ready to sand & shoot. Sand with
400 or 500 wet (500 for base-clear). On older cars that have rubber around
the glass, you can usually use 1/8 inch rope under the edge of the rubber
to hold up the rubber & paint under it. Size of rope depends on the
car/rubber. If 1/8 dissapears, use larger. *Very important* - clean the
surface with wax & grease remover as mentioned above. Shoot the paint.
6) For a *nice* clear-coat finish, sand with 1000 or 1200 grit wet using a
firm "sponge pad". On rounded areas, a softer sponge pad works well.
They're available at the auto paint store (or should be). Buff with a
"micro-finishing" compound & polish/clean with a product for new paint
(foam polishing pad glaze). Don't paste wax until the paint has dried a
*least* a month.

Hows that? ;^p
Any questions?
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!

What kind of paint gun (and how big a compressor) would you recommend for a
newbie to use?

"ThaDriver" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> I wrote this for another forum; should cover most of your questions.
>
> On a good paint job (which are all I do :-) I would spend a minimum of
> $400 in materials prepping that car (not including paint). I use only
> catalyst-hardened primers & paints, starting with PPG epoxy primer &
> building up imperfections for blocking with Sikkens high-build primer (if
> needed). Then another coat of epoxy as a sealer before spraying a
*minimum*
> amount of basecoat color(s) (just enough to cover well) & topping off with
> Sikkens clear. I keep buildup to a minimum to minimize chipping. These
> paint jobs will last for at least 20 years if the car is parked outside;
> probably 50 or more if taken care of. Just wanted to prepare you for the
> sticker shock when you start buying materials. Of course, you can cut alot
> of corners, & you most likely won't use the high-dollar Sikkens stuff. But
> it appears that you plan to have someone else shoot the paint, so ask them
> about sealing it with epoxy, as it will minimixe shrinking & make the
paint
> stick better. Use base-coat clear-coat to guard against UV rays (the clear
> keeps it from fading). Here again, the paint & clear cost may be higher
> than a soild color, but it'll be worth it.
> If you want to do it right, take EVERYTHING off of the car that you can;
> all trim, door handles, lights, etc. Sand it THOROUGHLY, all the way up &
> into the corners & crevices. CLEAN it THOROUGHLY with a good "wax & grease
> remover": wipe it on with a clean cloth & wipe it dry with another clean
> cloth - don't let it air dry. Do it twice to make sure you get all the wax
> & grease off of the surface. DO IT A DOZEN TIMES BEFORE PAINTING IF YOU'VE
> BEEN USING SILICONE ANY WHERE AROUND THE VEHICLE. Well maybe not a dozen,
> but AT LEAST three. Silicone will travel through the air for hundreds of
> feet, & make the paint "fisheye" (seperate from the surface leaving small
> craters).
> Well, those paragraphs kinda get ahead of us here...
> Anyway, here is the basic sequence you'll want to use.
> 1) Metal work. This means hammering out/working the dents, changing parts
> like fenders, & lining up all the body panels (hood, fenders, doors, &
> trunklid). A good rule of thumb when working metal is to use two blows
> instead of one; that is, work out the dents slowly so as to not stretch
> the metal. Start with lining the doors to fit the body at the 1/4 panel &
> around the opening. Then line the fenders to the doors, & the hood to the
> fenders.
> 2) Stripping. You may not need to, but probably will 'cause most older
> cars have alot of paint on them & it's not a solid base to shoot over. The
> DA I mentioned before - if you find a *real* DA that locks down - will
> usually do a good job of taking it down to bare metal using 80 grit in the
> lock-down mode. I use an 8-inch air buffer & 80 grit most of the time. If
> that dosen't work (if the paint is too soft & fills up the paper too soon)
> use a chemical stripper. I use "Aircraft Stripper" (brand name).
> 3) Filler. This means bondo :-) Use any good brand name, the new ones
> with "micro spheres" are probably the best. If you strip the car to metal,
> & have the money to spend, go ahead & put one good thick (not reduced)
coat
> of epoxy on it. If not, grind ALL the paint off of the areas that need
> filling back several inches beyond the dented area. You do not want bondo
> over anything but bare metal (or fiberglass) or epoxy primer - no
> exceptions! Sand the bondo with 40 grit to start with. When you've got it
> just about right, finish with 80 grit. Use a flat block on the flat areas
> & whatever it takes on the rounded contours. Any block that fits your hand
> & the sandpaper will work. On "outside" rounded areas the flat block will
> work if you "roll" it over the surface diagonally at 45 degrees in both
> directions. On inside curves, use a flexable pad or peice of PVC - things
> like that. Always change directions when sanding, & try not to sand in a
> straight line.
> 4) Priming/blocking. Once you're finished with the filler, prime it. I
> again use a coat of epoxy & then two or three coats if needed of
> high-build primer on the areas that were worked. *Very important* - give
> the primer several days if you can to completely dry before blocking.
> Spray some black "guide coat" paint (flat black laquer works well) over
> the primed areas in a very light mist. Don't try to cover the surface,
> just let a light mist fall on it. Block the primer using a block or if you
> can find one a good paint paddle. For large flat areas, Home Depot has
some
> 5-gallon paddles that work well, On smaller areas & rounded surfaces a
> regular paddle works well if you can find a flat/straight one. The smaller
> one will flex a little, allowing you to put pressure where you need it (on
> the high spots & rounded surfaces) to knock the surface down. Wrap the
> full sheet of paper around the paddle & tear off two sides as the paper
> wears out. Start with 180 grit - wet if you can, with a trickle flowing
> over the surface as you sand. Finish with 220 to 320 grit. The high/low
> spots will become apparent as soon as you start sanding using the guide
> coat. Block everything untill it's smooth - all the guide coat will be
> gone. One thing to remember: when initially trying to flatten an apparent
> low spot, you have to sand the entire area around it down to where that
> surface is - you don't actually sand the spot that's not smooth untill the
> area around it is down. If an area is too low to block out (you start to
> hit metal), use a catalyst-hardened putty to fill it. I use Fiberglass
> Evercoat (brand name) I think it's #406.
> Re-prime the blocked areas. If needed, block & re-prime again. Again let
> the primer dry.
> 5) If everything looks good, it should be ready to sand & shoot. Sand with
> 400 or 500 wet (500 for base-clear). On older cars that have rubber around
> the glass, you can usually use 1/8 inch rope under the edge of the rubber
> to hold up the rubber & paint under it. Size of rope depends on the
> car/rubber. If 1/8 dissapears, use larger. *Very important* - clean the
> surface with wax & grease remover as mentioned above. Shoot the paint.
> 6) For a *nice* clear-coat finish, sand with 1000 or 1200 grit wet using a
> firm "sponge pad". On rounded areas, a softer sponge pad works well.
> They're available at the auto paint store (or should be). Buff with a
> "micro-finishing" compound & polish/clean with a product for new paint
> (foam polishing pad glaze). Don't paste wax until the paint has dried a
> *least* a month.
>
> Hows that? ;^p
> Any questions?
> ~ Paul
> aka "Tha Driver"
>
> Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!
>

>What kind of paint gun (and how big a compressor) would you recommend for a
>newbie to use?

the paint gun you want really depends on the paint your going to use I use a
Sata jet 90 that works well with most paints but is a $400 to $500 dollr gun. I
would recomend buying a cheaper gun from the store you buy your paint they
should be able to give you tips on useing them. (they all taken the guns home
to paint their cars in there home garages with some nice resalts I'm sure)

And as far as the compressor goes the bigger you can afford the better. Its
hard to get good paint jobs if your air pressor changes alot and harder useing
a cheap spray gun.

Mario

>What kind of paint gun (and how big a compressor) would you recommend for
a
newbie to use?
************
You should be able to pick up a Sharpe gun fairly reasonable. More
expensive than the Wallmart import cheap crap but less than the Develbiss
or Binks. I would say you could get by with any compressor around 3hp up.
Also get a regulator for the inlet on the gun. You can usually adjust your
spraying technique to make up for the gun & compressor; believe it or not
my first overall paint job was done using a canister-type *vacum cleaner*
& the little sprayer that came with it! Turned out to be a nearly flawless
paint job! This was when acrylic enamel first came out... (1969?)
Make sure to get a water trap & put it inline away from the compressor.
HTH,
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Giggle Cream - it makes dessert *funny*!