How ite done used to b

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:59:53 -0500, Vic Smith
> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:29:30 -0500, Nicholas
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 20:14:23 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>>
>>>i could ask what kind of person couldn't read a label /before/ he bought
>>>it, but that's beside the point.
>>
>>I had my wife with me.
>>
>>>what is the point is that g.m. have been sucking at the taxpayer's teat
>>>for decades, and what have they done with billions of dollars invested?
>>> shipped it overseas!
>>
>>Like every other major player in retail.
>>
>>
>>>the only possible saving grace in your case is that at least the daewoo
>>>is south korean, and thus the product of a democratic and military ally.
>>> all the money/jobs g.m. has shipped to china by getting its
>>>componentry made there at taxpayer expense, is going to a communist
>>>dictatorship and military antagonist. that is ****ED UP.
>>
>>How is that any more ****ed up than buying oil at exorbitant prices
>>from our sworn enemies in South America and the Mideast?
>>
>>>we should automate and manufacture at home. **** everybody else.
>>
>>The cats are already out of the bag. Thank Nixon/Bush One for that.
>>They call it "normalizing relations." I call it treason.
>>
>jb has said what I've been saying for years.
>And given your background you know the score too.
>Only things I'll add is:
>Autos are one of the few places you can get domestic content.
>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...american-cars/
>You're smart enough to know you were buying a Daewo, not a Chevy.
>I don't know why you're complaining. You made a conscious choice.

I'm complaining about the car itself? Not really. The car is kinda
fun to drive, especially with power-assisted rack and pinion steering.

>And here you're bitching about GM sending money overseas

No...that was Jim bitching about GM sending money overseas

> when there
>are much bigger targets, and you had no problem buying that car.

>You're just part of the problem.

Do you think things would have been different if I had bought a
Toyota?

>Once Wall Street got into almost everybody's paycheck with a 401k
>cut straight to Wall Street, it was all over.

Hindsight is 20/20: Certificates of deposit, 401K's etc.

>Clinton was as big a Wall Street pimp as Bush, and it looks like Obama
>is carrying on the tradition.

What else were you expecting. McCain the senile and Palin the stupid?

>There's not a ****ing difference between D's and R's in this regard,
>and anybody who thinks R's will improve that is nuts.

We know that.

>But that's not to say R's taking over is a bad idea.

How so?

>What the R's will do is quickly **** up everything so much more that a
>3rd party will spring up, or the D's will see the light and shed Wall
>Street and get back to their roots..

3rd party. Right.

>Wall Street owns the D's and R's.
>Nixon had nothing to do with this trade imbalance, and wouldn't have
>tolerated it. He was a better Democrat than Obama.

Nixon opened up Trade With China. What books did you get THAT crap
out of?

>So was Ike for that matter.

I don't think so. I was alive during Eisenhower's tenure and don't
remember that.

>Ironically, the last President who exhibited the "Dem" party's
>supposed regard for blue collars and low unemployment was Ronald
>Reagan, who forced the Japanese to build auto plants here.

Automated auto plants, with Japanese Management.

>With friends like Wall Street, China, and U.S. politicians, who needs
>enemies?

We figured that out decades ago.

>The best thing that could happen to this country would be to import
>enough Chinese here to fill the Congress.

Now I know you've "lost it"

>They'd quickly whip things into shape and make America proud.

God save us. Take some asprin and call your doctor in the morning.

>--Vic

Lg

On 09/18/2011 12:49 AM, Nicholas wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:59:53 -0500, Vic Smith
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:29:30 -0500, Nicholas
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 20:14:23 -0700, jim > wrote:
>>>
>>>> i could ask what kind of person couldn't read a label /before/ he bought
>>>> it, but that's beside the point.
>>>
>>> I had my wife with me.
>>>
>>>> what is the point is that g.m. have been sucking at the taxpayer's teat
>>>> for decades, and what have they done with billions of dollars invested?
>>>> shipped it overseas!
>>>
>>> Like every other major player in retail.
>>>
>>>
>>>> the only possible saving grace in your case is that at least the daewoo
>>>> is south korean, and thus the product of a democratic and military ally.
>>>> all the money/jobs g.m. has shipped to china by getting its
>>>> componentry made there at taxpayer expense, is going to a communist
>>>> dictatorship and military antagonist. that is ****ED UP.
>>>
>>> How is that any more ****ed up than buying oil at exorbitant prices
>> >from our sworn enemies in South America and the Mideast?
>>>
>>>> we should automate and manufacture at home. **** everybody else.
>>>
>>> The cats are already out of the bag. Thank Nixon/Bush One for that.
>>> They call it "normalizing relations." I call it treason.
>>>
>> jb has said what I've been saying for years.
>> And given your background you know the score too.
>> Only things I'll add is:
>> Autos are one of the few places you can get domestic content.
>> http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...american-cars/
>> You're smart enough to know you were buying a Daewo, not a Chevy.
>> I don't know why you're complaining. You made a conscious choice.
>
> I'm complaining about the car itself? Not really. The car is kinda
> fun to drive, especially with power-assisted rack and pinion steering.
>
>> And here you're bitching about GM sending money overseas
>
> No...that was Jim bitching about GM sending money overseas
>
>> when there
>> are much bigger targets, and you had no problem buying that car.
>
>> You're just part of the problem.
>
> Do you think things would have been different if I had bought a
> Toyota?

i do. it would be made in america from american-made components.


>
>> Once Wall Street got into almost everybody's paycheck with a 401k
>> cut straight to Wall Street, it was all over.
>
> Hindsight is 20/20: Certificates of deposit, 401K's etc.
>
>> Clinton was as big a Wall Street pimp as Bush, and it looks like Obama
>> is carrying on the tradition.
>
> What else were you expecting. McCain the senile and Palin the stupid?
>
>> There's not a ****ing difference between D's and R's in this regard,
>> and anybody who thinks R's will improve that is nuts.
>
> We know that.
>
>> But that's not to say R's taking over is a bad idea.
>
> How so?
>
>> What the R's will do is quickly **** up everything so much more that a
>> 3rd party will spring up, or the D's will see the light and shed Wall
>> Street and get back to their roots..
>
> 3rd party. Right.
>
>> Wall Street owns the D's and R's.
>> Nixon had nothing to do with this trade imbalance, and wouldn't have
>> tolerated it. He was a better Democrat than Obama.
>
> Nixon opened up Trade With China. What books did you get THAT crap
> out of?
>
>> So was Ike for that matter.
>
> I don't think so. I was alive during Eisenhower's tenure and don't
> remember that.
>
>> Ironically, the last President who exhibited the "Dem" party's
>> supposed regard for blue collars and low unemployment was Ronald
>> Reagan, who forced the Japanese to build auto plants here.
>
> Automated auto plants, with Japanese Management.

operating here in america, using american labor and american-made
components.

and don't forget, we taught the japanese management how to do it right.
but we don't bother to do it right ourselves. ridiculous.


>
>> With friends like Wall Street, China, and U.S. politicians, who needs
>> enemies?
>
> We figured that out decades ago.
>
>> The best thing that could happen to this country would be to import
>> enough Chinese here to fill the Congress.
>
> Now I know you've "lost it"
>
>> They'd quickly whip things into shape and make America proud.
>
> God save us. Take some asprin and call your doctor in the morning.
>
>> --Vic
>
> Lg
>


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 23:41:09 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>On 09/17/2011 10:59 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

>> There's not a ****ing difference between D's and R's in this regard,
>
>you need to be very careful abut that thinking. read this from mike
>lofgren, retired republican staffer:
>http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all...ult/1314907779
>
>planting the seed of "they're all the same" leads to low participation.
> and low participation opens the door to hijacking by just the kinds of
>sociopaths that started us down this road in the first place.
>

In regard to what we're talking about, it's simply true.
You won't catch me voting for the current R party.
It's a party full of know-nothings and wackos.
But the D's just aren't any better re Wall Street and forging
industrial and trade policies that work for America.
And I know that when people get ****ed they throw the current bums
out. Won't bother me at all. Obama had his chance.
So far he's just been death by a thousand cuts.
When folks see the continued total incompetence of the R's,
still no jobs, attempts to end SS and Medicare, they'll quickly be
tossed out themselves.
Eventually, either a 3rd party will arise, or a real D or R leader
ala one of the Roosevelts will emerge to institute industrial and
trade policies to improve things.
He/she will have to be a populist rabble rouser to overcome Wall
Street.

>> Ironically, the last President who exhibited the "Dem" party's
>> supposed regard for blue collars and low unemployment was Ronald
>> Reagan, who forced the Japanese to build auto plants here.
>
>the irony is, now they're really the only ones left making cars from
>domestic componentry! gm buys its brakes, driveshafts, glass, wire
>harnesses, electronics, starters, alternators, upholstery, carpet, etc.
>from china. frod from china and mexico.
>

Blah, blah, bull****. How about the cupholders?
Anybody can find domestic content for all cars by following the links
here under "Extras." Latest I could find, but didn't look hard.
http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_15775230
You'll never get 100%, and probably haven't for decades.
Whether you like how the percentages are derived is irrelevant.
It's what we have.
I noticed from the above article that my cars are always 100% content,
because I always buy used. I don't quite buy that proposition.

>
>> With friends like Wall Street, China, and U.S. politicians, who needs
>> enemies?
>> The best thing that could happen to this country would be to import
>> enough Chinese here to fill the Congress.
>> They'd quickly whip things into shape and make America proud.
>
>but they pretty much already control congress,

What I didn't make clear is the Chinamen become *real* Americans with
the interests of America their foremost goal.
Like most Congressmen of 40 years ago.
But with the ruthlessness of Chinamen.

--Vic

On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 02:49:15 -0500, Nicholas
> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:59:53 -0500, Vic Smith
> wrote:
>

>
>>And here you're bitching about GM sending money overseas
>
>No...that was Jim bitching about GM sending money overseas
>

Oops. My apologies for that.

>> when there
>>are much bigger targets, and you had no problem buying that car.
>
>>You're just part of the problem.
>
>Do you think things would have been different if I had bought a
>Toyota?
>

Sure. You could have kept more money in this country.
You can see read a domestic content list.
I never tell anybody what to buy.
But it seemed you were saying you had no choice.
You do.

>>Once Wall Street got into almost everybody's paycheck with a 401k
>>cut straight to Wall Street, it was all over.
>
>Hindsight is 20/20: Certificates of deposit, 401K's etc.
>

Not sure what you mean. No hindsight involved.
I never put my 401k money in equities.
But Wall Street still sucked my blood with 401k money markets.
The system is rigged that way.
Direct conduit to Wall Street for 401k retirement savings.
Closed and locked market.
CD's aren't an option in any 401k I ever heard of, but I only
participated in the offerings of 2 employers.
I suspect that is the norm for 401k's.
It was for the 10's of thousands of employees where I worked.
As soon as I hit 59 1/2 I rolled what was allowed by my plan into
open market CD's, and immediately tripled the earnings.
What was allowed then as I recall was only about 20% of the 401k.
When I retired I could roll the rest, and did, again tripling the
earnings.
Besides the tripling of earnings, my retirement savings became FDIC
insured, unlike 401k's, and the money became available to stimulate
the economy through loans, instead of being endlessly churned on Wall
Street to generate commissions and fees for the Wall Street commies.
A real free market would allow the same level of self-directed IRA
savings to be sheltered as is done for 401k's
Then the individual could decide if he wanted to let Wall Street get
their grubby fingers on his retirement savings, or not.

>>Clinton was as big a Wall Street pimp as Bush, and it looks like Obama
>>is carrying on the tradition.
>
>What else were you expecting. McCain the senile and Palin the stupid?
>
>>There's not a ****ing difference between D's and R's in this regard,
>>and anybody who thinks R's will improve that is nuts.
>
>We know that.
>
We'll see how many nuts vote soon enough

>>But that's not to say R's taking over is a bad idea.
>
>How so?
>
>>What the R's will do is quickly **** up everything so much more that a
>>3rd party will spring up, or the D's will see the light and shed Wall
>>Street and get back to their roots..
>
>3rd party. Right.
>

Ha. I thought I was pessimistic.

>>Wall Street owns the D's and R's.
>>Nixon had nothing to do with this trade imbalance, and wouldn't have
>>tolerated it. He was a better Democrat than Obama.
>
>Nixon opened up Trade With China. What books did you get THAT crap
>out of?
>

What, chopsticks? I didn't see any of this Chinese stuff hitting the
market here until the '90's. Nixon was long gone.

>>So was Ike for that matter.
>
>I don't think so. I was alive during Eisenhower's tenure and don't
>remember that.
>

So was I. Neither Nixon or Ike would have allowed this.
Not in their blood. They were from before people started emerging
from pods.

>>Ironically, the last President who exhibited the "Dem" party's
>>supposed regard for blue collars and low unemployment was Ronald
>>Reagan, who forced the Japanese to build auto plants here.
>
>Automated auto plants, with Japanese Management.
>
And many thousands of jobs.

>>With friends like Wall Street, China, and U.S. politicians, who needs
>>enemies?
>
>We figured that out decades ago.
>
>>The best thing that could happen to this country would be to import
>>enough Chinese here to fill the Congress.
>
>Now I know you've "lost it"
>
>>They'd quickly whip things into shape and make America proud.
>
>God save us. Take some asprin and call your doctor in the morning.
>

If you don't think the Chinese are whipping our ass, it's you who
needs medication.

--Vic

On 2011-09-18, Nicholas > wrote:
> How is that any more ****ed up than buying oil at exorbitant prices
> from our sworn enemies in South America and the Mideast?

Oil is cheap and sold for cheap. You're paying for the US federal
government's empire, the welfare-warfare state, well-regulated
finanical system, etc.

> The cats are already out of the bag. Thank Nixon/Bush One for that.
> They call it "normalizing relations." I call it treason.

Most of those in politics (and more so the higher up we are talking
about) are well useful idiots, social climbers, sociopaths, and other
classifications that represent the worst of humanity. What they do is
whatever will get them more power and more money. This means serving
various interests and following 'advice' from policy groups, think
tanks, etc. It is who finances the runs for office and those policy
groups where the blame goes. This political behavior has been going on
since at least when Wilson was president but americans still cheer it
all on... including the destruction of their own wealth and standard
living.. oh and the wars, can't have enough of that destroyer of
resources and human effort... because they largely believe the entire
scam.

On 2011-09-18, jim beam > wrote:

> planting the seed of "they're all the same" leads to low participation.
> and low participation opens the door to hijacking by just the kinds of
> sociopaths that started us down this road in the first place.

That's because they are the same. Sociopathic statists. Both parties.
Only a very few individuals are actually different. Most that people
think are different are just talk, scamming people, they pander, they
say what people want to hear, like Obama. Low participation is better
than believing in this WWF system of BS.

> what we have today is far too similar to the wall street pirates of the
> 1930's and their political lackeys of the great depression. they bled
> the country dry, then torched it and ran off with the money. only a war
> got us out of it. and it's looking like history is going to repeat itself.

A war didn't get us out of it. War made those insiders more powerful and
more wealthy.
http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/ar...risaracket.htm

"WAR is a racket. It always has been.
It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most
vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one
in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives."

What ended the depression is that after the war the government finally
pulled its boot off the people's neck a little.

On 09/18/2011 03:35 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2011 23:41:09 -0700, jim > wrote:
>
>> On 09/17/2011 10:59 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
>
>>> There's not a ****ing difference between D's and R's in this regard,
>>
>> you need to be very careful abut that thinking. read this from mike
>> lofgren, retired republican staffer:
>> http://www.truth-out.org/goodbye-all...ult/1314907779
>>
>> planting the seed of "they're all the same" leads to low participation.
>> and low participation opens the door to hijacking by just the kinds of
>> sociopaths that started us down this road in the first place.
>>
>
> In regard to what we're talking about, it's simply true.
> You won't catch me voting for the current R party.
> It's a party full of know-nothings and wackos.
> But the D's just aren't any better re Wall Street and forging
> industrial and trade policies that work for America.
> And I know that when people get ****ed they throw the current bums
> out. Won't bother me at all. Obama had his chance.
> So far he's just been death by a thousand cuts.
> When folks see the continued total incompetence of the R's,
> still no jobs, attempts to end SS and Medicare, they'll quickly be
> tossed out themselves.
> Eventually, either a 3rd party will arise, or a real D or R leader
> ala one of the Roosevelts will emerge to institute industrial and
> trade policies to improve things.
> He/she will have to be a populist rabble rouser to overcome Wall
> Street.
>
>>> Ironically, the last President who exhibited the "Dem" party's
>>> supposed regard for blue collars and low unemployment was Ronald
>>> Reagan, who forced the Japanese to build auto plants here.
>>
>> the irony is, now they're really the only ones left making cars from
>> domestic componentry! gm buys its brakes, driveshafts, glass, wire
>> harnesses, electronics, starters, alternators, upholstery, carpet, etc.
>>from china. frod from china and mexico.
>>
>
> Blah, blah, bull****. How about the cupholders?
> Anybody can find domestic content for all cars by following the links
> here under "Extras." Latest I could find, but didn't look hard.
> http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_15775230
> You'll never get 100%, and probably haven't for decades.
> Whether you like how the percentages are derived is irrelevant.

i think it's highly relevant - it's got accord and camry as only 75%!
they're both up near 95%. so when we see impala at 75%, what is the
reality? 50%? 45%?

don't forget also that if something is processed here, it qualifies as
domestic. so if chinese bolts are screwed into a chinese pump body,
with chinese bearings a chinese seal and a plastic american impeller, it
qualifies as "made in usa with foreign and domestic components". that
is bull****.


> It's what we have.

but for the u.s. taxpayer to be bailing out g.m. to the tune of
>$30billion, excluding the decades of tax breaks, cheap loans and other
kickbacks we've been funding for decades, for g.m. to be turning around
and buying content from a despotic communist regime and military
antagonist that threatens both our asian allies and ourselves, is
utterly perverted.


> I noticed from the above article that my cars are always 100% content,
> because I always buy used. I don't quite buy that proposition.
>
>>
>>> With friends like Wall Street, China, and U.S. politicians, who needs
>>> enemies?
>>> The best thing that could happen to this country would be to import
>>> enough Chinese here to fill the Congress.
>>> They'd quickly whip things into shape and make America proud.
>>
>> but they pretty much already control congress,
>
> What I didn't make clear is the Chinamen become *real* Americans with
> the interests of America their foremost goal.
> Like most Congressmen of 40 years ago.
> But with the ruthlessness of Chinamen.

abc's, yes. but not the current breed of immigrants unfortunately.
there are /many/ "off the boat" chinese here who are fiercely loyal to
their motherland. sure, they keep their heads down for the most part,
but here in silicon valley, they're busy ransacking our companies for
technology as hard as they can, each and every day.

and to illustrate further, a few years ago, there were some "free tibet"
rallies in san francisco. i was there because they went through the
heart of the financial district where i work, and what i saw blew my
mind. the rally marchers were photographed, confronted, bullied,
intimidated, punched, spat on and threatened every step of the way by
thousands and thousands of imported cell phone coordinated chinese
thugs. sorry, did i say thugs? i meant "spies and political operatives
posing as students". you've never seen the like - they were bussed in
from all over the country. hundreds of busses. for a few hundred
marchers. and what did san francisco's finest do? absolutely nothing,
they just stood by and let it happen.

it's a disgrace and shame on our nation that we allowed that. and the
contempt with which the chinese regard us is only reinforced by our
willingness to stand by and let them operate in our country in that way.
with utter impunity! they wouldn't let us operate like that in their
country - absolutely no freakin' way.


>
> --Vic


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:13:16 -0400, "MG" >
wrote:

>Jim and Vic, you are right on. Nicholas, you could easily have bought a
>more American car. If you are spending $15,000 or whatever an Aveo costs,
>maybe you are wealthy enough not to do some due diligence, but I'm not. The
>content has been on the window sticker since 1994. Caveat emptor.

Last car we bought was a Mercury Sable. As in Ford/Lincoln/Mercury.

This time, wife wanted a Chevy. A Chevrolet dealership is only a few
blocks away. I didn't SEE that part of the window sticker until I got
home.

I intentionally didn't go to Toyota or Honda or Nissan etc., thinking
I was buying American. It took a bit of time to discover Chevy isn't
"Made in USA" anymore. The Salesman sure the hell didn't mention it.

Lg

On 09/19/2011 02:03 PM, Nicholas wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:13:16 -0400, >
> wrote:
>
>> Jim and Vic, you are right on. Nicholas, you could easily have bought a
>> more American car. If you are spending $15,000 or whatever an Aveo costs,
>> maybe you are wealthy enough not to do some due diligence, but I'm not. The
>> content has been on the window sticker since 1994. Caveat emptor.
>
> Last car we bought was a Mercury Sable. As in Ford/Lincoln/Mercury.
>
> This time, wife wanted a Chevy. A Chevrolet dealership is only a few
> blocks away. I didn't SEE that part of the window sticker until I got
> home.
>
> I intentionally didn't go to Toyota or Honda or Nissan etc., thinking
> I was buying American. It took a bit of time to discover Chevy isn't
> "Made in USA" anymore. The Salesman sure the hell didn't mention it.
>
> Lg
>

"import" civic accord camry corolla - made here with higher domestic
content than "domestic" brands!


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 14:33:48 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>On 09/19/2011 02:03 PM, Nicholas wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 12:13:16 -0400, >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jim and Vic, you are right on. Nicholas, you could easily have bought a
>>> more American car. If you are spending $15,000 or whatever an Aveo costs,
>>> maybe you are wealthy enough not to do some due diligence, but I'm not. The
>>> content has been on the window sticker since 1994. Caveat emptor.
>>
>> Last car we bought was a Mercury Sable. As in Ford/Lincoln/Mercury.
>>
>> This time, wife wanted a Chevy. A Chevrolet dealership is only a few
>> blocks away. I didn't SEE that part of the window sticker until I got
>> home.
>>
>> I intentionally didn't go to Toyota or Honda or Nissan etc., thinking
>> I was buying American. It took a bit of time to discover Chevy isn't
>> "Made in USA" anymore. The Salesman sure the hell didn't mention it.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>"import" civic accord camry corolla - made here with higher domestic
>content than "domestic" brands!

A "car man" such as yourself would know that, but I'm just a gimp.
Next time I'll take you along as an advisor.

Lg