How does "salvage title" work anyway?

How does "salvage title" work anyway?

A neighbor got rear ended such that her five thousand dollar 2000 model
year vehicle was "totaled" and yet still driveable such that she's keeping
it.

The insurance company gave her two choices:
1. They pay her five thousand and they keep the car
2. They pay her four thousand and she keeps the car

The caveat is she has to switch her title to "salvage".
What does that even mean in terms of practicality?

She called the DMV and they said she needs to get inspected by the CHP for
brakes and lights and change the title within a few days of cashing the
check so she asked me what she needs to do.

Heck if I know

Her own insurance company says it's not their problem.
The insurance company which is paying tells her to talk to the DMV.
The DMV says to talk to CHP.

Has anyone here experience with this salvage stuff so I can advise her?

Arlen Holder wrote:
> How does "salvage title" work anyway?
>
> A neighbor got rear ended such that her five thousand dollar 2000 model
> year vehicle was "totaled" and yet still driveable such that she's keeping
> it.
>
> The insurance company gave her two choices:
> 1. They pay her five thousand and they keep the car
> 2. They pay her four thousand and she keeps the car
>
> The caveat is she has to switch her title to "salvage".
> What does that even mean in terms of practicality?
>
> She called the DMV and they said she needs to get inspected by the CHP for
> brakes and lights and change the title within a few days of cashing the
> check so she asked me what she needs to do.
>
> Heck if I know
>
> Her own insurance company says it's not their problem.
> The insurance company which is paying tells her to talk to the DMV.
> The DMV says to talk to CHP.
>
> Has anyone here experience with this salvage stuff so I can advise her?

A salvage title means that the car has been deemed a total loss by
someone and was written off as scrap.

However in many states it doesn't mean that the vehicle couldn't be
repaired, inspected and put back on the road, with a salvage title.
There are states where a salvage title basically means the vehicle is
shipped to a yard to be parted out and cannot be repaired, even if the
physical damage wasn't that bad.

In this case I would verify that she can get insurance on it, some
companies will not insure a salvage title. Others don't care as long as
it passes the inspections needed. Then do repairs as needed and get the
inspections required done. Then you can register it as long as it passes.

In most states they use a table to determine the value of a vehicle, and
once it costs over a certain percentage of that amount to repair a
vehicle for whatever reason, it is totaled out.

--
Steve W.

On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 00:11:25 -0500, Steve W. wrote:

> A salvage title means that the car has been deemed a total loss by
> someone and was written off as scrap.

Thanks for your advice as I realize this is a "California-only" question.

What I'm looking for is someone in Cali who has been through the process
o Only they will know what it takes - since California is always wacky

It seems the insurance companies in California give two choices:
1. They take the car (where they pay what they call "Market Value")
2. Or, they let the owner keep the car (where they pay less than that)

It's the owners' choice (AFAIK).
o But if the owner keeps it, they have to transfer the title to salvage

To get more information on that process, I tried calling the DMV yesterday,
but they put me on hold for 4 hours, and, at 5PM sharp, they hung up.
o 1-800-777-0133

I tried calling the CHP also, who said that in California you have to pay a
shop to certify that the brakes & lights work before DMV will change the
title to a salvage title. They said they'd get back to me on how that
process works (due to covid people working at home I guess).
o 1-800-TELL-CHP

I did call an insurance company who said that the only thing it means to
them is if they pay a claim for vehicle damage, then, in the future, for
any _new_ damage claim, if it has a salvage title, then they only need to
pay half of what they would have paid (had it not had a salvage title).

It's Veteran's day so I'll try to contact DMV again tomorrow.

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 00:11:25 -0500, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> A salvage title means that the car has been deemed a total loss by
>> someone and was written off as scrap.
>
> Thanks for your advice as I realize this is a "California-only" question.
>
> What I'm looking for is someone in Cali who has been through the process
> o Only they will know what it takes - since California is always wacky
>
> It seems the insurance companies in California give two choices:
> 1. They take the car (where they pay what they call "Market Value")
> 2. Or, they let the owner keep the car (where they pay less than that)
>
> It's the owners' choice (AFAIK).
> o But if the owner keeps it, they have to transfer the title to salvage
>
> To get more information on that process, I tried calling the DMV yesterday,
> but they put me on hold for 4 hours, and, at 5PM sharp, they hung up.
> o 1-800-777-0133
>
> I tried calling the CHP also, who said that in California you have to pay a
> shop to certify that the brakes & lights work before DMV will change the
> title to a salvage title. They said they'd get back to me on how that
> process works (due to covid people working at home I guess).
> o 1-800-TELL-CHP
>
> I did call an insurance company who said that the only thing it means to
> them is if they pay a claim for vehicle damage, then, in the future, for
> any _new_ damage claim, if it has a salvage title, then they only need to
> pay half of what they would have paid (had it not had a salvage title).
>
> It's Veteran's day so I'll try to contact DMV again tomorrow.

Salvage titles work pretty much the same everywhere really. The vehicle
VIN is reported to the DMV that it was written off as a total loss. That
goes into the system and if someone were to buy it from the auction or
insurance company and repair it for use it will have a salvage title
issued. In this case the owner will be buying the car back directly
which makes the paperwork a bit easier as they can skip a couple fees
that someone else would need to do if they bought the car.

The process is almost the same as buying and registering any used car,
the difference is the extra steps of the inspection and smog
certification and the CHP fee which is basically to check the parts and
pieces used in the repair to be sure they are not stolen.
Those two can be reversed in process depending on the damage that
happened to the vehicle. That is the question you need answered before
the others.
Here they require the police to run the numbers first, before you can
have the inspection done. Cali, used to be that way, but they now have
it based on the vehicle.

It will also need to be smogged again.


--
Steve W.

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 08:05:09 -0500, Steve W. wrote:

> Salvage titles work pretty much the same everywhere really.

Well, I lived in plenty of states, where nothing works like California.
o I did find the California web site on "salvage" title but it's confusing.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/new-registration/junk-revived-salvage-vehicles/>

Notice there are two sections:
o Revived Junk Vehicle? (top half of that web page)
o Revived Salvage Vehicle (bottom half of that web page)

I think the bottom half applies, but it's confusing.
o For example, they say without any links whatsoever the following:
"Brake and light adjustment certificates"

OK. Fine. Where do you get them?
o The web site doesn't say a single thing about that at that line.

When I call the DMV 800 number, I wait for hours, and then they hang up.
o 1-800-777-0133

> The vehicle
> VIN is reported to the DMV that it was written off as a total loss.

Yes. That's what, I think, the insurance company does.
o That apparently starts a 10-day clock (which is the real problem).

> That goes into the system and if someone were to buy it from the auction or
> insurance company and repair it for use it will have a salvage title
> issued. In this case the owner will be buying the car back directly
> which makes the paperwork a bit easier as they can skip a couple fees
> that someone else would need to do if they bought the car.

Yes. If it were just that easy, it would be as simple as:
a. Give me your old title
b. Here is your new "salvage" title

But it's apparently not that easy based on the fact that NOBODY seems to
know the process but the DMV (and they're not picking up the phone).

> The process is almost the same as buying and registering any used car,
> the difference is the extra steps of the inspection and smog
> certification and the CHP fee which is basically to check the parts and
> pieces used in the repair to be sure they are not stolen.

In California, EVERY sale requires smog unless the last smog was within 90
days, where the owner selling it is responsible for that smog check.

I'm not sure _who_ the owner is that is "selling" it, since it's the
insurance company declaring it as salvage, but I suspect it has to be
smogged again no matter what (since it was more than 90 days since the last
smog).

The California DMV site intimates a brake & light check is needed
o But literally, there's NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER on how to do that!

I called the CHP today who told me they do NOT do the brake check.
o Nor do they do the lights check.

The only thing they do is the VIN check (they said).
o 1-800-TELL-CHP

> Those two can be reversed in process depending on the damage that
> happened to the vehicle. That is the question you need answered before
> the others.

The damage is cosmetic only.
o It's totaled but only because the cosmetic damage exceeds the value.

> Here they require the police to run the numbers first, before you can
> have the inspection done. Cali, used to be that way, but they now have
> it based on the vehicle.

I'm not sure what you mean by "run the numbers"?
o The CHP told me they can only verify the VIN number.

But I have no clue yet how the brake & light inspection is to be done.

> It will also need to be smogged again.

Yes. It appears that even though it is only cosmetic damage, the vehicle
will need to be smogged (about fifty bucks) even though ownership didn't
change hands.

BTW, here's what it says, verbatim, at the California DMV site:
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/new-registration/junk-revived-salvage-vehicles/>
*What is a Revived Salvage Vehicle?*
"A Revived Salvage Vehicle is a vehicle previously reported to DMV
as a total loss by the owner or insurance company, but has been rebuilt
and restored to operational condition. If your total loss/salvage
vehicle has been revived, you must register the vehicle again."
*To register your Revived Salvage Vehicle, you will need:*
1. A completed Application for Title or Registration (REG 343) form,
signed by the current vehicle owner(s).
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/application-for-title-or-registration-reg-343-pdf/>

2. Proof of ownership, such as a Bill of Sale (REG 135) form
or a Vehicle/vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262) form
from a licensed dismantler (make sure you include the dismantler's
vehicle acquisition number).
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/bill-of-sale-reg-135-pdf/>

3. A Verification of Vehicle (REG 31) form or CHP Certificate of Inspection
(CHP 97C) form.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/verification-of-vehicle-reg-31-pdf/>

4. Brake and light adjustment certificates.
WTF? There's nothing on _how_ to do that!!!!!!
(That's why someone who has been through this can help.)

5. Applicable fees.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/registration-fees/>
The registration fee
California Highway Patrol (CHP) fee
Vehicle license fee
Transportation improvement fee
County/district fee

6. You may need an Application for Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable
Vehicle Certificate (REG 488C).
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/application-for-salvage-certificate-or-nonrepairable-vehicle-certificate-reg-488c-pdf/>

7. You may need a Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262)
form (request a form from DMV by calling 1-800-777-0133.

8. You may need a Statement of Facts (REG 256) form.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/statement-of-facts-reg-256-pdf/>

9. You may need a Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combined
Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW) (REG 4008) form.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/declaration-of-gross-vehicle-weight-gvw-combined-gross-vehicle-weight-cgw-reg-4008-pdf/>

10. You may need a Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) Application
and Certification (REG 4017) form.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/permanent-trailer-identification-pti-certification-and-application-reg-4017-pdf/>

11. You may need to surrender existing license plates.
(they don't even say why)

12. You may need a smog certification.
<https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/smog-inspections/>

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 08:05:09 -0500, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> Salvage titles work pretty much the same everywhere really.
>
> Well, I lived in plenty of states, where nothing works like California.
> o I did find the California web site on "salvage" title but it's confusing.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/new-registration/junk-revived-salvage-vehicles/>
>
> Notice there are two sections:
> o Revived Junk Vehicle? (top half of that web page)
> o Revived Salvage Vehicle (bottom half of that web page)
>
> I think the bottom half applies, but it's confusing.

Yes, this would be a revived salvage vehicle. The difference is that a
"Junk" vehicle had it's ownership transferred to a salvage yard and was
then bought from them.

> o For example, they say without any links whatsoever the following:
> "Brake and light adjustment certificates"
>
> OK. Fine. Where do you get them?
> o The web site doesn't say a single thing about that at that line.

You get that at a repair shop that can do the inspection. CHP doesn't do
that part, they only care about the VIN being legal.

>
> When I call the DMV 800 number, I wait for hours, and then they hang up.
> o 1-800-777-0133
>
>> The vehicle
>> VIN is reported to the DMV that it was written off as a total loss.
>
> Yes. That's what, I think, the insurance company does.
> o That apparently starts a 10-day clock (which is the real problem).
>
>> That goes into the system and if someone were to buy it from the auction or
>> insurance company and repair it for use it will have a salvage title
>> issued. In this case the owner will be buying the car back directly
>> which makes the paperwork a bit easier as they can skip a couple fees
>> that someone else would need to do if they bought the car.
>
> Yes. If it were just that easy, it would be as simple as:
> a. Give me your old title
> b. Here is your new "salvage" title
>
> But it's apparently not that easy based on the fact that NOBODY seems to
> know the process but the DMV (and they're not picking up the phone).

Well it isn't really that hard, but if they did it the easy way, they
couldn't pick your pockets..

>
>> The process is almost the same as buying and registering any used car,
>> the difference is the extra steps of the inspection and smog
>> certification and the CHP fee which is basically to check the parts and
>> pieces used in the repair to be sure they are not stolen.
>
> In California, EVERY sale requires smog unless the last smog was within 90
> days, where the owner selling it is responsible for that smog check.
>
> I'm not sure _who_ the owner is that is "selling" it, since it's the
> insurance company declaring it as salvage, but I suspect it has to be
> smogged again no matter what (since it was more than 90 days since the last
> smog).

It will need to be because of being salvaged. Even the 90 day doesn't
apply to that because the state doesn't know if the car was repaired by
replacing three light bulbs or the entire driveline was replaced. So
they write a blanket law stating, it's been salvaged, it has to be
smogged. See wallet sucking above....

>
> The California DMV site intimates a brake & light check is needed
> o But literally, there's NO INFORMATION WHATSOEVER on how to do that!
>
> I called the CHP today who told me they do NOT do the brake check.
> o Nor do they do the lights check.
>
> The only thing they do is the VIN check (they said).
> o 1-800-TELL-CHP

Correct. CHP doesn't do the inspections, they only care if the VIN and
parts are legal or stolen. You have to go to a garage/shop to get the
B&L done.


>
>> Those two can be reversed in process depending on the damage that
>> happened to the vehicle. That is the question you need answered before
>> the others.
>
> The damage is cosmetic only.
> o It's totaled but only because the cosmetic damage exceeds the value.

That's actually very common. And getting worse very rapidly because the
retail prices on parts are going up daily while the wholesale prices on
complete used cars is not.

>
>> Here they require the police to run the numbers first, before you can
>> have the inspection done. Cali, used to be that way, but they now have
>> it based on the vehicle.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "run the numbers"?
> o The CHP told me they can only verify the VIN number.

Yep, they punch the VIN in, just like they would run your license at a
traffic stop. Then they look at the report and it will show if the VIN
was wanted as a theft or crime car, same with any used parts. If they
check out as legal they give you a form and take your money...

>
> But I have no clue yet how the brake & light inspection is to be done.
>
>> It will also need to be smogged again.
>
> Yes. It appears that even though it is only cosmetic damage, the vehicle
> will need to be smogged (about fifty bucks) even though ownership didn't
> change hands.
>
> BTW, here's what it says, verbatim, at the California DMV site:
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/new-registration/junk-revived-salvage-vehicles/>
> *What is a Revived Salvage Vehicle?*
> "A Revived Salvage Vehicle is a vehicle previously reported to DMV
> as a total loss by the owner or insurance company, but has been rebuilt
> and restored to operational condition. If your total loss/salvage
> vehicle has been revived, you must register the vehicle again."
> *To register your Revived Salvage Vehicle, you will need:*
> 1. A completed Application for Title or Registration (REG 343) form,
> signed by the current vehicle owner(s).
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/application-for-title-or-registration-reg-343-pdf/>
>
> 2. Proof of ownership, such as a Bill of Sale (REG 135) form
> or a Vehicle/vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262) form
> from a licensed dismantler (make sure you include the dismantler's
> vehicle acquisition number).
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/bill-of-sale-reg-135-pdf/>

The original title in the owners name and an ID showing who they are
covers this.

>
> 3. A Verification of Vehicle (REG 31) form or CHP Certificate of Inspection
> (CHP 97C) form.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/verification-of-vehicle-reg-31-pdf/>

This is the VIN check that the CHP does.

>
> 4. Brake and light adjustment certificates.
> WTF? There's nothing on _how_ to do that!!!!!!
> (That's why someone who has been through this can help.)

A garage or shop that does vehicle safety inspections does this.

>
> 5. Applicable fees.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/registration-fees/>
> The registration fee
> California Highway Patrol (CHP) fee
> Vehicle license fee
> Transportation improvement fee
> County/district fee

Section 5 is the real reason for it all....


>
> 6. You may need an Application for Salvage Certificate or Nonrepairable
> Vehicle Certificate (REG 488C).
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/application-for-salvage-certificate-or-nonrepairable-vehicle-certificate-reg-488c-pdf/>

This should be done NOW as you need the salvage certificate before you
can legally repair the vehicle and you have 10 days. Be sure NOT to fill
out the non-repairable section. Select - Plate with owner for
reassignment, unless you want a different plate. This is the only item
with a time limit. The clock starts the second the insurance company
hands you the check and the car.

See -
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...e-certificate/


>
> 7. You may need a Vehicle/Vessel Transfer and Reassignment (REG 262)
> form (request a form from DMV by calling 1-800-777-0133.
Shouldn't need that as the vehicle isn't changing hands nor is it being
reassigned to a different vehicle class, this would be if you were
making it a taxi or taking a cargo van and converting it to a passenger
van or similar conversion.

>
> 8. You may need a Statement of Facts (REG 256) form.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/statement-of-facts-reg-256-pdf/>
Not needed

>
> 9. You may need a Declaration of Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Combined
> Gross Vehicle Weight (CGW) (REG 4008) form.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/declaration-of-gross-vehicle-weight-gvw-combined-gross-vehicle-weight-cgw-reg-4008-pdf/>
Nope, not a truck - this one is if you were taking say a box truck and
converting it to an RV or heavier payload by adding springs.

>
> 10. You may need a Permanent Trailer Identification (PTI) Application
> and Certification (REG 4017) form.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/file/permanent-trailer-identification-pti-certification-and-application-reg-4017-pdf/>
Nope- not a trailer

>
> 11. You may need to surrender existing license plates.
> (they don't even say why)
If the car was totaled they will assume the plates were damaged unless
you can show that they were not. On the salvage cert. application you
select that the owner retained the plates to be reassigned.

>
> 12. You may need a smog certification.
> <https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/smog-inspections/>
You will because it is a salvage.

Hope that helps.
As for the salvage certificate, Verify the date the insurance company
filed their 481 form and when they issued the check to the owner. With
everything that is going on they may not be super sticklers on the
certificate but get it done ASAP. I don't think they have it as an
online item or at the kiosks but instead you need to fill out the
application and either mail/fax or take it in personally.
For that you could use the online chat if they will reply. Go to the DMV
site and look for the ask dmv button.

--
Steve W.

Arlen Holder > wrote:
>On Sun, 08 Nov 2020 00:11:25 -0500, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> A salvage title means that the car has been deemed a total loss by
>> someone and was written off as scrap.
>
>Thanks for your advice as I realize this is a "California-only" question.

I think a lot of the California weirdness is intended to deal with people
with million-dollar exotic vehicles. This is much less of an issue in
the South.

In Virginia, once a vehicle is salvaged, repaired, then titled as rebuilt,
you get a REBUILT on your title, and have no serious problems with insurance.
However, getting titled as rebuilt requires an inspection to make sure no
stolen parts were used, and once you have REBUILT on your title the DMV now
can't do any of the paperwork for anything locally, so any minor title
changes have to be sent to Richmond where they will take several weeks.

Once you have salvage or rebuilt on your car's title it is effectively not
possible to get it removed in many states, whereas in some other states it
can be done. So you will see people trading registration from state to state
in an attempt to clean up titles on million-dollar exotics. This is apparently
legal and not too difficult if you own additional residences in a number of
states.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."