Brake pads

Hi all:
I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
difference? Thanks for any input!

I have always used aftermarket pads in the past and had problems. Never
seem to have any trouble with genuine pads. Just my input. Scott

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dxmah wrote:
> Hi all:
> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
> have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
> semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
> hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
> difference? Thanks for any input!
>
>

1. please learn to cross post. that way both honda groups can see all
the answers.

2. if you want best overall performance, i.e. low dust, lowest brake
disk wear, longest life and best resistance to fade, use oem honda pads.
especially as they cost just about the same as aftermarket. in fact,
they're better value when you consider that they also come with shims
and grease, whereas most aftermarket pads don't.

3. what mileage do you have? many here change pads upwards of 60k miles.

to emphasize, resistance to fade is a big deal - many aftermarket pads
are abysmal in this regard. in normal use, you may not notice, but when
you need it, you really need it, and you don't want to discover this
halfway down california st in san francisco as a cable car lurches
across the street in front of you.

dxmah wrote:
> Hi all:
> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
> have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
> semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
> hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
> difference? Thanks for any input!

OEM, always.

YMMV, of course.

"Tony Harding" > wrote in message
...
> dxmah wrote:
>> Hi all:
>> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
>> have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
>> semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
>> hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
>> difference? Thanks for any input!
>
> OEM, always.
>
> YMMV, of course.

Me too.

he mentioned its a hybrid, don't the brakes last longer due to regenerative
braking system?

t

Al G wrote:
>>> Hi all:
>>> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
>[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>>
>> YMMV, of course.
>
> Me too.

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On Mar 5, 12:42 am, jim beam > wrote:
> dxmah wrote:
> > Hi all:
> > I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
> > have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
> > semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
> > hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
> > difference? Thanks for any input!
>
> 1. please learn to cross post. that way both honda groups can see all
> the answers.
>
> 2. if you want best overall performance, i.e. low dust, lowest brake
> disk wear, longest life and best resistance to fade, use oem honda pads.
> especially as they cost just about the same as aftermarket. in fact,
> they're better value when you consider that they also come with shims
> and grease, whereas most aftermarket pads don't.
>
> 3. what mileage do you have? many here change pads upwards of 60k miles.
>
> to emphasize, resistance to fade is a big deal - many aftermarket pads
> are abysmal in this regard. in normal use, you may not notice, but when
> you need it, you really need it, and you don't want to discover this
> halfway down california st in san francisco as a cable car lurches
> across the street in front of you.

I started to develop brake problems on a 4cyl 2003 Accord after
16,000KM. Dealer replaced them for free but at 60,000 same problem
occurred. I replaced the rotors on the front only to Cross drilled and
clotted manufactured by DBA (Disk Brakes Australia - model DBA
4488XS). Also switched to HWAK ferro carbon, front and back. I have a
total of approximately 340,000 on the rotors and I am on the second
set of pads. The rotors were expensive. They are about 25% worn. This
braking setup shows no fading even after very hard multiple braking
tests. However, the pads do shed red dust, but wash easily. It was
mentioned that the OEM pads are very good. Not sure what that means. I
can warp the original Honda rotors in one application, or glaze the
pads in one application. I have been driving Honda cars since 1991,
and none of them had good brakes. In fact that is my major complaint
about Honda/Acura cars.

highkm wrote:
> On Mar 5, 12:42 am, jim beam > wrote:
>> dxmah wrote:
>>> Hi all:
>>> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
>>> have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
>>> semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
>>> hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
>>> difference? Thanks for any input!
>> 1. please learn to cross post. that way both honda groups can see all
>> the answers.
>>
>> 2. if you want best overall performance, i.e. low dust, lowest brake
>> disk wear, longest life and best resistance to fade, use oem honda pads.
>> especially as they cost just about the same as aftermarket. in fact,
>> they're better value when you consider that they also come with shims
>> and grease, whereas most aftermarket pads don't.
>>
>> 3. what mileage do you have? many here change pads upwards of 60k miles.
>>
>> to emphasize, resistance to fade is a big deal - many aftermarket pads
>> are abysmal in this regard. in normal use, you may not notice, but when
>> you need it, you really need it, and you don't want to discover this
>> halfway down california st in san francisco as a cable car lurches
>> across the street in front of you.
>
> I started to develop brake problems on a 4cyl 2003 Accord after
> 16,000KM. Dealer replaced them for free but at 60,000 same problem
> occurred. I replaced the rotors

you mean "warped" rotors? that's usually easily cured, and it doesn't
take expensive aftermarket rotors to do it. see below for reason and cure.


> on the front only to Cross drilled and
> clotted manufactured by DBA (Disk Brakes Australia - model DBA
> 4488XS). Also switched to HWAK ferro carbon, front and back. I have a
> total of approximately 340,000 on the rotors and I am on the second
> set of pads. The rotors were expensive. They are about 25% worn. This
> braking setup shows no fading even after very hard multiple braking
> tests. However, the pads do shed red dust,

that's from the disk, not the pad. it's iron oxide.


> but wash easily. It was
> mentioned that the OEM pads are very good. Not sure what that means.

as stated before, it means they generate low dust, don't cause excessive
wear on the disk, and they don't fade.


> I
> can warp the original Honda rotors in one application,

no you can't. you can have a problem that's misdiagnosed as warp. see
below.

> or glaze the
> pads in one application.

that's a fitting incompetence problem. see below.


> I have been driving Honda cars since 1991,
> and none of them had good brakes. In fact that is my major complaint
> about Honda/Acura cars.

there is a reason you're consistently having problems - you're
consistently doing something wrong. possibly as many as three things
actually.

first though, you need to understand something very important about
honda - they make vehicles that handle well and perform efficiently.
both these qualities require low unsprung weight at the wheels. the
easiest way to achieve that is to minimize, within reason, the mass of
the hub and the disk. consequently, honda use thin lightweight hubs,
and disks. the down side is that this is less tolerant of the following
problems:

1. if lug nuts are not correctly torqued, i.e. with a torque wrench, and
in the right sequence, the hub will not seat square relative to the wheel.

2. same if there is corrosion at the hub/wheel interface.

3. this last problem is not unique to honda - disk contamination while
servicing. dirty greasy fingers leave patches on the disk which can
glaze and cause performance problems. tegger has a page on his recent
encounter with this on his website. disks need to be kept clean and
grease free.


#'s 1 & 2 are by far the commonest cause of rotor "warping", and most
importantly, can be easily cured. simply clean the face of the hub with
a scraper, and the inside of the wheel where it seats against the hub.
then smear a little antiseize on these mating surfaces. take care not
to get any on the disk. then replace the wheel and torque in the
correct sequence, 1-3-2-4, in a two or more stage process, using a
torque wrench. do NOT use air tools.

for most people, this will cure "honda disk warp", every time. without
need to replace or skim any disks. or spend vast sums on expensive
aftermarket components that are not necessary or worse, actually inferior.

On Mar 5, 10:25 pm, jim beam > wrote:
> highkm wrote:
> > On Mar 5, 12:42 am, jim beam > wrote:
> >> dxmah wrote:
> >>> Hi all:
> >>> I'm anticipating the front brake pads on my 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid will
> >>> have to be replaced soon. What's the differences (pros/cons) between
> >>> semi-metallic and ceramic pads? W
> >>> hich one should I consider? Do brand names (e.g. Raybestos) really make a
> >>> difference? Thanks for any input!
> >> 1. please learn to cross post. that way both honda groups can see all
> >> the answers.
>
> >> 2. if you want best overall performance, i.e. low dust, lowest brake
> >> disk wear, longest life and best resistance to fade, use oem honda pads.
> >> especially as they cost just about the same as aftermarket. in fact,
> >> they're better value when you consider that they also come with shims
> >> and grease, whereas most aftermarket pads don't.
>
> >> 3. what mileage do you have? many here change pads upwards of 60k miles.
>
> >> to emphasize, resistance to fade is a big deal - many aftermarket pads
> >> are abysmal in this regard. in normal use, you may not notice, but when
> >> you need it, you really need it, and you don't want to discover this
> >> halfway down california st in san francisco as a cable car lurches
> >> across the street in front of you.
>
> > I started to develop brake problems on a 4cyl 2003 Accord after
> > 16,000KM. Dealer replaced them for free but at 60,000 same problem
> > occurred. I replaced the rotors
>
> you mean "warped" rotors? that's usually easily cured, and it doesn't
> take expensive aftermarket rotors to do it. see below for reason and cure.
>
> > on the front only to Cross drilled and
> > clotted manufactured by DBA (Disk Brakes Australia - model DBA
> > 4488XS). Also switched to HWAK ferro carbon, front and back. I have a
> > total of approximately 340,000 on the rotors and I am on the second
> > set of pads. The rotors were expensive. They are about 25% worn. This
> > braking setup shows no fading even after very hard multiple braking
> > tests. However, the pads do shed red dust,
>
> that's from the disk, not the pad. it's iron oxide.
>
> > but wash easily. It was
> > mentioned that the OEM pads are very good. Not sure what that means.
>
> as stated before, it means they generate low dust, don't cause excessive
> wear on the disk, and they don't fade.
>
> > I
> > can warp the original Honda rotors in one application,
>
> no you can't. you can have a problem that's misdiagnosed as warp. see
> below.
>
> > or glaze the
> > pads in one application.
>
> that's a fitting incompetence problem. see below.
>
> > I have been driving Honda cars since 1991,
> > and none of them had good brakes. In fact that is my major complaint
> > about Honda/Acura cars.
>
> there is a reason you're consistently having problems - you're
> consistently doing something wrong. possibly as many as three things
> actually.
>
> first though, you need to understand something very important about
> honda - they make vehicles that handle well and perform efficiently.
> both these qualities require low unsprung weight at the wheels. the
> easiest way to achieve that is to minimize, within reason, the mass of
> the hub and the disk. consequently, honda use thin lightweight hubs,
> and disks. the down side is that this is less tolerant of the following
> problems:
>
> 1. if lug nuts are not correctly torqued, i.e. with a torque wrench, and
> in the right sequence, the hub will not seat square relative to the wheel.
>
> 2. same if there is corrosion at the hub/wheel interface.
>
> 3. this last problem is not unique to honda - disk contamination while
> servicing. dirty greasy fingers leave patches on the disk which can
> glaze and cause performance problems. tegger has a page on his recent
> encounter with this on his website. disks need to be kept clean and
> grease free.
>
> #'s 1 & 2 are by far the commonest cause of rotor "warping", and most
> importantly, can be easily cured. simply clean the face of the hub with
> a scraper, and the inside of the wheel where it seats against the hub.
> then smear a little antiseize on these mating surfaces. take care not
> to get any on the disk. then replace the wheel and torque in the
> correct sequence, 1-3-2-4, in a two or more stage process, using a
> torque wrench. do NOT use air tools.
>
> for most people, this will cure "honda disk warp", every time. without
> need to replace or skim any disks. or spend vast sums on expensive
> aftermarket components that are not necessary or worse, actually inferior.

I adhere to all the best practices (+ more) that you've mentioned. I
appreciate your advice and comments, but after I switched to ABS
rotors and Hawk brake pads servicing frequencies reduced, brake
efficiency increased, durability improved, and although the cost when
compared to the OEM equipment increased, the overall satisfaction
dramatically improved as well. As a comparison (in Ontario), the front
rotors are $100 each. The front pad set is just over$90. Total with
taxes is over $300. I paid the same amount for ABS rotors and Hawk
pads (ordered from US). I have over the long run saved a lot of money
while improving th braking system. What more can one ask for.

Don't know if it's still going on but HandA had some OEM pads on sale
for crazy cheap. Even after shipping they were about $15 cheaper than
the dealer. And all I know is they had the ones for my '98 Accord V-6
Coupe...since you were wondering ;^)

Meat.