Flashpoint Racing Series begins tonight!

"Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
...
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <shrug> Papy made statements/promises too, that they didn't deliver on,
> > weren't correct, etc. I.e., "Nascar Racing 3 will be based on the gpl
> > engine" etc. "We can't put a save game feature in" (n1 and 2). "We're
> > unable to make the pit roads straight due to coding limitations" (EA
did
> so
> > in 1998).
>
> JP, you seem to do a lot of shrugging. A tick perhaps? ;-)


No, why ?



>
> > Also get a kick out of those slamming the car graphics in NSR. Until
> n4,
> > none of the car graphics in the Nx releases even resembled a stock car.
>
> Uh, it's 2005 now. Papy sorted that out years ago. GP2 didn't look so
hot
> either, come to think of it.


So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ? Besides the fact that the
criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas the
Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.

Regarding gp2, it looked fantastic for the period of it's release, not
sure of the point there.


>
> Before being labeled a fanboy, let it be known that I'm all in favor of
> something that'll eclipse NR2003, whoever it comes from. And while NSR is
a
> genuine step up from it's predecessors, I just don't see it clearing that
> hurdle. Losing the jittering online opponents and warp-driven online
melees
> would be a true improvement if NSR can manage it and still get a full
field,
> but there are so many other steps backward relative to NR2003 that only
> people focused on that one issue will be convinced of it's superiority.


To early to say imo, either way.



>
> As for the known limitations of NR2003, remember it is two years old and
> hasn't had benefit of that time for additional refinement. If you plot
the
> forward progress Papy made with the game while Sierra had the Nascar
License
> and project where it would likely be for a NR2005, Papy-style, NSR isn't
> even in the same league.


03 is just another rendition of N4. Surely, you can't deny that.



>
> But EA do have the NASCAR license now, so I certainly wish the Tiburon
guys
> luck in their efforts; I just wonder about the true level of commitment
from
> EA to the narrow slice of the market we hardcore sim-heads represent.
>
> SB


Agreed.

"Plowboy" > wrote in message
news:7NJQd.42182$EG1.31117@lakeread04...
> BILL,
>
> N3 doesnt really count in this discussion after all, including this stuff
> was a new concept in itself back then, nowdays it is a pre-requisite, dont
> you think?
>
>
> Bill Bollinger enlightened us with:
> > Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it
> > was released. I believe this release will be very good and shot a
> > LOT of potential. If they get the dedicated server package fixed
> > (Admin commands installed), everyone will move to NSR online. They
> > have fixed the online problems N2003 have suffered from since N4.
> sniped for brevity
>


N3 and Flashpoint Racing Series. Hrmm. I remember. All N3 leagues dropped
in the middle of a season with no explanation from Flashpoint. Sorry, I've
avoided Flashpoint like the plague ever since.

GJ

Well remember that this isn't EAs first NASCAR title either. And
considering that people are already porting Thunder tracks into NSR I
suspect that this new title isn't as totally new as some would like.

Most of us want is a good solid sim title that is a step forward. I
couldn't care less who makes it.

For me and many the key will be the online racing. So far I have heard
little about NSR online other than one post saying it doesn't support dialup
and someone else mentioned to me that it may require 2-3 times the bandwidth
for hosting.

"JP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "JP" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > <shrug> Papy made statements/promises too, that they didn't deliver
>> > on,
>> > weren't correct, etc. I.e., "Nascar Racing 3 will be based on the gpl
>> > engine" etc. "We can't put a save game feature in" (n1 and 2).
>> > "We're
>> > unable to make the pit roads straight due to coding limitations" (EA
> did
>> so
>> > in 1998).
>>
>> JP, you seem to do a lot of shrugging. A tick perhaps? ;-)
>
>
> No, why ?
>
>
>
>>
>> > Also get a kick out of those slamming the car graphics in NSR. Until
>> n4,
>> > none of the car graphics in the Nx releases even resembled a stock car.
>>
>> Uh, it's 2005 now. Papy sorted that out years ago. GP2 didn't look so
> hot
>> either, come to think of it.
>
>
> So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
> graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ? Besides the fact that the
> criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas the
> Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.
>
> Regarding gp2, it looked fantastic for the period of it's release, not
> sure of the point there.
>
>
>>
>> Before being labeled a fanboy, let it be known that I'm all in favor of
>> something that'll eclipse NR2003, whoever it comes from. And while NSR
>> is
> a
>> genuine step up from it's predecessors, I just don't see it clearing that
>> hurdle. Losing the jittering online opponents and warp-driven online
> melees
>> would be a true improvement if NSR can manage it and still get a full
> field,
>> but there are so many other steps backward relative to NR2003 that only
>> people focused on that one issue will be convinced of it's superiority.
>
>
> To early to say imo, either way.
>
>
>
>>
>> As for the known limitations of NR2003, remember it is two years old and
>> hasn't had benefit of that time for additional refinement. If you plot
> the
>> forward progress Papy made with the game while Sierra had the Nascar
> License
>> and project where it would likely be for a NR2005, Papy-style, NSR isn't
>> even in the same league.
>
>
> 03 is just another rendition of N4. Surely, you can't deny that.
>
>
>
>>
>> But EA do have the NASCAR license now, so I certainly wish the Tiburon
> guys
>> luck in their efforts; I just wonder about the true level of commitment
> from
>> EA to the narrow slice of the market we hardcore sim-heads represent.
>>
>> SB
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>

"Schooner" > wrote in message
news:HPLQd.242$iz2.210@edtnps91...
> Well remember that this isn't EAs first NASCAR title either. And
> considering that people are already porting Thunder tracks into NSR I
> suspect that this new title isn't as totally new as some would like.
>
> Most of us want is a good solid sim title that is a step forward. I
> couldn't care less who makes it.
>
> For me and many the key will be the online racing. So far I have heard
> little about NSR online other than one post saying it doesn't support
dialup
> and someone else mentioned to me that it may require 2-3 times the
bandwidth
> for hosting.


Yep, agreed. EA has always been a hog with bandwidth, so definately
interested in that too.

What? you talking about when FP moved up to another version or something?

what I was talking to Bill about was, back in the day of NR3, where Papy
gave the online stuff, for each user to setup and administer servers (on the
user's own or rented bandwidth btw) it was a new concept. After all the NR3
was after or near when papy's involvement with TEN was over I think. Hell,
come to think about it, all I would think to be equal to this is give Joe
Lamas whatever he needs at "Pay to race OLR"(#1)" and a link to OLR on the
desktop so users can creat an account then race "online" all they want. But
this is 2005 I say. Some homes apparently have t-1's in them, and server
spaces are everywhere to be rented. But EA produced a game for online play
that has no CONTROL's for the server, & missing some pretty important
clientside multiplayer stuff. maybe we wouldnt care if we hadn't
experienced it with Papy's stuff? Hell I got on the BF1942 servers I didnt
know how to see my pingrates in game, or how many seconds in front of or
behind I was of someone like we use in racing... But then again I think I
notice Admins punting Punk like a-holes off the servers... I dunno...

Im just saying EA didnt produce on the golden CD, what even was produced
back in pre 1999 days at least so far. Im also baited breath about the
promised patch. Madden 05 IMHO is a patch for Madden 04... it goes on and
on with EA it seems. Frankly if this turns out to be true, there's harldy
anything left but Set-top box racing in our future... well distant future
would be possible and completley follow the above model, "because" you don't
patch PS2 games either, you sell them the "new version" nex year...

*#1 No I am member of OLR, free account right now after year or so of
premium, so Im not bashing OLR, in fact I really like it. *


George Jetson enlightened us with:
> "Plowboy" > wrote in message
> news:7NJQd.42182$EG1.31117@lakeread04...
>> BILL,
>>
>> N3 doesnt really count in this discussion after all, including this
>> stuff was a new concept in itself back then, nowdays it is a
>> pre-requisite, dont you think?
>>
>>
>> Bill Bollinger enlightened us with:
>>> Remember that N3 didn't even have a dedicated server package when it
>>> was released. I believe this release will be very good and shot a
>>> LOT of potential. If they get the dedicated server package fixed
>>> (Admin commands installed), everyone will move to NSR online. They
>>> have fixed the online problems N2003 have suffered from since N4.
>>> sniped for brevity
>>
>
>
> N3 and Flashpoint Racing Series. Hrmm. I remember. All N3 leagues
> dropped in the middle of a season with no explanation from
> Flashpoint. Sorry, I've avoided Flashpoint like the plague ever since.
>
> GJ

made a switch from N3 to N4 without noticed? I'm sorry, but that's
pure BS!!! I have never switched titles without telling people.
Flashpoint has made switch to new games from N2/N3, N3/N4, N4/N2002,
N2002/N2003 and I will say the N3/N4 took the longest to get switched;
because it was a rude awakening for many people. We were one of the
last leagues to get switched and we ran practice sessions on new titles
until our members were ready for the switch.

I think N2003 to NSR is going to be like N3/N4, because not only will
drivers and admins need to get acclimated to the new software, but
screen names will most likely be different for many people; because
they have to register with EA.


>
> N3 and Flashpoint Racing Series. Hrmm. I remember. All N3 leagues
dropped
> in the middle of a season with no explanation from Flashpoint. Sorry,
I've
> avoided Flashpoint like the plague ever since.
>
> GJ

"JP" > wrote in message
...

> So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
> graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ? Besides the fact that the
> criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas the
> Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.

No, it's just that as others have noted, this is far from the EA/Tiburon
crew's first effort at Nascar.

> Regarding gp2, it looked fantastic for the period of it's release, not
> sure of the point there.

Yes it did, but not now. NR2003 looked state of the art when it was
released too, but it's tough to say that about NSR. It doesn't look awful,
but it's no real advance that I can see.

> To early to say imo, either way.

Definitely with regard to online functionality, but as to the other aspects
of the game where is it better? Surely not in the GUI, the replays, etc.

> 03 is just another rendition of N4. Surely, you can't deny that.

A refined version of the base engine, for sure. Which began with GPL.
Doesn't mean it's a "mod" of GPL, just as it doesn't mean NSR is a mod of
F1C, which it shares a bunch of code with. Just think that the main issues
people have with NR2003 are a function of 2-year old code where the issues
that are appearing with NSR are based on current code.

> Agreed.

Yes, we're all one big happy family of sim-heads here! But think about it;
if the EA guys are checking out what's going on with the Sierra servers and
there are way under 1,000 people online at any given point, how much are
they going to care about the hardcore sim experience when they're focusing
on moving units in the hundreds of thousands or more? That's one reason the
extremely forgiveable nature of the demo cars' handling caught my notice. I
saw it not so much as a shortcoming of an early build as a reflection of
what they're shooting for with the final product. It's certainly possible
to have a generally accessible product and still accomodate the likes of us,
but how much effort's going to go into that extra bit needed? If I'm the
product manager and I think something's only going to affect 5% of my target
market and it's going to be a pain to implement, I'm not going to lose much
sleep over it.

Time will tell...

"Steve Blankenship" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > So, Papy gets a chance (that took, what seven years in terms of car
> > graphics ?) to "sort it out", but EA doesn't ? Besides the fact that
the
> > criticisms of the EA cars are for very nit picking items imo, whereas
the
> > Papy stuff was huge, basic flaws.
>
> No, it's just that as others have noted, this is far from the EA/Tiburon
> crew's first effort at Nascar.



Well, in terms of a non-console port, it is.





>
> > Regarding gp2, it looked fantastic for the period of it's release, not
> > sure of the point there.
>
> Yes it did, but not now. NR2003 looked state of the art when it was
> released too, but it's tough to say that about NSR. It doesn't look
awful,
> but it's no real advance that I can see.



Ah, ok, yeah, thats true.



>
> > To early to say imo, either way.
>
> Definitely with regard to online functionality, but as to the other
aspects
> of the game where is it better? Surely not in the GUI, the replays, etc.


Don't know yet myself (no game yet), and while there were some things even
the demo did better imo, apples/oranges using that maybe.


>
> > 03 is just another rendition of N4. Surely, you can't deny that.
>
> A refined version of the base engine, for sure. Which began with GPL.
> Doesn't mean it's a "mod" of GPL, just as it doesn't mean NSR is a mod of
> F1C, which it shares a bunch of code with. Just think that the main
issues
> people have with NR2003 are a function of 2-year old code where the issues
> that are appearing with NSR are based on current code.


Well, don't know how current it is, being based on F1x, etc. But anyway.


>
> > Agreed.
>
> Yes, we're all one big happy family of sim-heads here! But think about
it;
> if the EA guys are checking out what's going on with the Sierra servers
and
> there are way under 1,000 people online at any given point, how much are
> they going to care about the hardcore sim experience when they're focusing
> on moving units in the hundreds of thousands or more? That's one reason
the
> extremely forgiveable nature of the demo cars' handling caught my notice.
I
> saw it not so much as a shortcoming of an early build as a reflection of
> what they're shooting for with the final product. It's certainly possible
> to have a generally accessible product and still accomodate the likes of
us,
> but how much effort's going to go into that extra bit needed? If I'm the
> product manager and I think something's only going to affect 5% of my
target
> market and it's going to be a pain to implement, I'm not going to lose
much
> sleep over it.
>
> Time will tell...


Yep.

Regarding the cars handling, more forgiving, etc. of course, doesn't
necessarily mean less realistic. Usually the opposite in fact (more
realistic) imo. I.e., it's been said that the cts mod for 03 more closely
matches the way the cup cars should, and the cts mod is easier to drive.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of the "it has to be difficult to be realistic" line
of thought <g>
Hell, Kaemmer himself said driving gpl was harder than the reality.

But anyway, yep, will be interesting to see how the online aspect pans
out. Big question marks there still.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:49:15 -0500, "Steve Blankenship"
> wrote:


> If I'm the
>product manager and I think something's only going to affect 5% of my target
>market and it's going to be a pain to implement, I'm not going to lose much
>sleep over it.
>
>Time will tell...
>
And that's what wrong with exclusive licenses. It doesn't let somebody
that cares do the job correctly for a market that would pay for it.
Screw EA . I DO CARE who makes the product. These *******s have
worked their employees without proper compensation and then fired a
bunch of them because they ****ed away their money on exclusive
licenses and can't pay the bills and/or keep the shareholders happy. I
guess I still have my 60's idealism but I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER EA
game. I hope the pirates have a field day. Where's the day 1 warez
site?

"not spam" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:49:15 -0500, "Steve Blankenship"
> > wrote:
>
>
> > If I'm the
> >product manager and I think something's only going to affect 5% of my
target
> >market and it's going to be a pain to implement, I'm not going to lose
much
> >sleep over it.
> >
> >Time will tell...
> >
> And that's what wrong with exclusive licenses. It doesn't let somebody
> that cares do the job correctly for a market that would pay for it.
> Screw EA . I DO CARE who makes the product. These *******s have
> worked their employees without proper compensation and then fired a
> bunch of them because they ****ed away their money on exclusive
> licenses and can't pay the bills and/or keep the shareholders happy. I
> guess I still have my 60's idealism but I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER EA
> game. I hope the pirates have a field day. Where's the day 1 warez
> site?



Hehe, the 'ole "Boo hoo, EA is mean to their employees (a story that
turned out to be at least partially fabricated iirc). If you're so worried
about that kind of stuff, you might want to do some research as to why the
Papy employees turned over so much.