Conventional oil hard to find?

"Tekkie©" > wrote in message
...
>
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
> digest...
>
>>
>> On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
>>
>> >> I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
>> >> test.
>> >
>> > I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
>> > exist.
>> > (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
>> > (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
>> > (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
>> > (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
>> > (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
>> > best?
>>
>> But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
>> miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
>> the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
>> been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
>> thousand?
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Not just about money too.
>> >
>> > You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
>> > money.
>> > I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
>> >
>> > Clearly we think differently.
>> >
>> > You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
>> > I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
>>
>> I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
>> and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
>> time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
>> filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
>> and peace of mind.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
>> >> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
>> >
>> > Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
>> > buy.
>> > They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
>> > like.
>> > They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
>> >
>> > And that's OK.
>> > You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
>> >
>> > But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
>> > does.
>> > And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
>> > says.
>> > And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
>> > with.
>> >
>> > Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
>> > like.
>> > But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
>> > money.
>>
>> Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
>> you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
>> and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
>> Owners manual says change the filter.
>
> You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...

Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, %%, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the trolling senile asshole's latest troll**** unread>

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID: >

On Sat, 27 Mar 2021 07:15:49 +1100, %% posted for all of us to digest...

>
> "Tekkie©" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
> > digest...
> >
> >>
> >> On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
> >> >> test.
> >> >
> >> > I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
> >> > exist.
> >> > (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
> >> > (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
> >> > (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
> >> > (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
> >> > (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
> >> > best?
> >>
> >> But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
> >> miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
> >> the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
> >> been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
> >> thousand?
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Not just about money too.
> >> >
> >> > You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about
> >> > money.
> >> > I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
> >> >
> >> > Clearly we think differently.
> >> >
> >> > You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
> >> > I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
> >>
> >> I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
> >> and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
> >> time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
> >> filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
> >> and peace of mind.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
> >> >> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
> >> >
> >> > Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
> >> > buy.
> >> > They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel
> >> > like.
> >> > They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
> >> >
> >> > And that's OK.
> >> > You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
> >> >
> >> > But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
> >> > does.
> >> > And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
> >> > says.
> >> > And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
> >> > with.
> >> >
> >> > Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
> >> > like.
> >> > But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
> >> > money.
> >>
> >> Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
> >> you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
> >> and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
> >> Owners manual says change the filter.
> >
> > You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
>
> Don't believe that. Arlen was never an accountant.

Evil twin? It's Arlen he's whatever he wants to be to suit his purpose.

--
Tekkie

On 3/26/2021 2:18 PM, mike wrote:

>
> How many owners manuals do NOT specify the oil change volume both with the
> oil filter also being changed and the oil change volume without the filter?
>
> How many owners manuals do NOT specify different maintenance intervals
> based
> on the type of service (for example the severity of driving conditions such
> as "dusty conditions" and/or the total number of accumulated time and/or
> total number of accumulated miles)?
>
> I have my 1990 Infiniti Q45 service manual in my hands at this very moment.
>
> Page MA-5 shows a one to one oil change and filter interval while the very
> next page MA-6 shows an "R" (for replace) on the oil filter every other oil
> change and the air filter gets its "R" every fourth oil change interval
> (the intervals being tabled under distance or time "whichever comes
> first").
>
> I can check others but you must have seen similar in maintenance schedules.

I've owned 25-30 cars. Every one specified oil and filter so that is
what i do. If you have different, fine follow it. Simple.

On 3/26/2021 3:30 PM, Tekkie� wrote:
>
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
> digest...
>
>>
>> On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
>>
>>>> I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
>>>> test.
>>>
>>> I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
>>> exist.
>>> (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
>>> (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
>>> (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
>>> (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
>>> (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?
>>
>> But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
>> miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
>> the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
>> been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
>> thousand?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Not just about money too.
>>>
>>> You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
>>> I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
>>>
>>> Clearly we think differently.
>>>
>>> You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
>>> I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
>>
>> I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
>> and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
>> time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
>> filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
>> and peace of mind.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.Â* I'm
>>>> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
>>>
>>> Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
>>> They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
>>> They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
>>>
>>> And that's OK.
>>> You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
>>>
>>> But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
>>> And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
>>> And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
>>> with.
>>>
>>> Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
>>> But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.
>>
>> Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
>> you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
>> and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
>> Owners manual says change the filter.
>
> You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
>
Nah, Mike is polite. Arlen does not like at all and thinks I post under
at least five names.

In article >, mike > wrote:
>On 26-03-2021 23:32 Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> I care about making my car last.
>> Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
>
>I follow the guidelines in the service manual that came with the car.
>
>Following that book I've been driving my 1990 as my DD but since you're
>worried I will tell you that for insurance against attacks by tigers
>I've also carried an amethyst talisman in the trunk next to the manual.

No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual. Because
if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
is no longer being manufactured.

Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally
specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
you can do is drive and hope.

There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 3/26/2021 3:47 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 18:49:56 +0530, mike > wrote:
>
>> On 26-03-2021 02:25 AMuzi > wrote:
>>
>>> It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
>>> and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
>>> not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
>>> every 3K miles in the 1970s.
>>
>> I already explained in great detail that it's not at all about money.
>> It's about design and function.
>>
>> Most people want a simple answer to everything which money is to them.
>> But not everything is a simple dollars to dollars decision like you claimed.
>>
>> If all you care about is money then knowing that both the oil filter and the
>> oil are cheap you're welcome to throw away both at the same interval which
>> is why I said it's up to you.
>>
>> But stop saying it's about money when that's only how YOU think.
>> The manufacturers think differently than you think.
>>
>> For them it's about engineering.
>>
>> Many manufacturers recommend oil filter intervals different than oil.
>> https://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-m...l-filter-last/
>>
>> If you disagree with the manufacturer then you should answer this question:
>> Does the oil filter always fail at the exact same rate as does the oil?
>
> Remember the old oil filter trick where you just use a roll of toilet
> paper? I thought I'd never see that again but it turned up on an episode of
> Garage Squad.
>

Considering the TP shortage we had I'd not be surprised if people were
unraveling filters to use in its place.

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 16:33:09 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> On 3/26/2021 3:30 PM, Tekkie? wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 14:02:03 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to
> > digest...
> >
> >>
> >> On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
> >>>> test.
> >>>
> >>> I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
> >>> exist.
> >>> (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
> >>> (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
> >>> (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
> >>> (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
> >>> (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are best?
> >>
> >> But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000
> >> miles. Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with
> >> the present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have
> >> been great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of
> >> thousand?
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> Not just about money too.
> >>>
> >>> You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
> >>> I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
> >>>
> >>> Clearly we think differently.
> >>>
> >>> You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
> >>> I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
> >>
> >> I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment
> >> and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance. In the
> >> time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an extra 5
> >> filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my warranty
> >> and peace of mind.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>> I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done.* I'm
> >>>> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
> >>>
> >>> Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they buy.
> >>> They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
> >>> They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
> >>>
> >>> And that's OK.
> >>> You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
> >>>
> >>> But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter does.
> >>> And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer says.
> >>> And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
> >>> with.
> >>>
> >>> Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you like.
> >>> But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up money.
> >>
> >> Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like
> >> you want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty
> >> and even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit.
> >> Owners manual says change the filter.
> >
> > You realize you are talking with Arlen Holder...
> >
> Nah, Mike is polite. Arlen does not like at all and thinks I post under
> at least five names.

Maybe he's taking his meds. He has me blocked and other forensic details lead
me to believe it's Arlen. You noted a discrepancy along with a different
vehicle so you may be right.

Whatever, he can get blood out of stone with his posts.

--
Tekkie

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
> On 3/26/2021 12:32 PM, mike wrote:
>
>>> I can't see the inside of that cartridge filter, nor can I do a flow
>>> test.
>>
>> I disagree you can't see inside that cartridge filter since teardowns
>> exist.
>> (1) Why do you think it has a pleated filter & which are the best?
>> (2) Why do you think it has an antidrainback valve & which is best?
>> (3) Why do you think it has an overpressure valve & which is best?
>> (4) Why do you think it has a gasket for engine mating & which is best?
>> (5) Why do you think it has many holes around the outside & which are
>> best?
>
> But none of that applies to the filter in my car for the past 5000 miles.
> Sure, I can buy what seems best but that has nothing to do with the
> present condition of my car as I change the oil today. May have been
> great for 4900 miles but will it be good for the next couple of thousand?
>
>
>>
>>> Not just about money too.
>>
>> You had not yet mentioned a single decision that wasn't only about money.
>> I mentioned the specifications, OEM recommendations and the tear downs.
>>
>> Clearly we think differently.
>>
>> You seem to only care about money and convenience (and that's OK).
>> I very much care about what it is that I'm trying to accomplish.
>
> I care about making my car last. Even a cheap car is a hefty investment

The problem with that line of argument is that modern
cars last a long time even if you don’t bother to do that
oil and filter changes at the specified frequency.

> and while I abhor waste, I do believe in proper maintenance.

Problem is what constitutes proper maintenance.

> In the time of ownership I will get 10 oil changes or in your case, an
> extra 5 filters. About $50 extra on a car I spent $50k on. Keeps my
> warranty

Very unlikely to see the engine die if you don’t
do whats specified. All you really need to do is
check it hasn’t run out of oil and water.

> and peace of mind.

Only if your don’t understand the basics.

>>> I'm under the car, filter is right there, two minutes and done. I'm
>>> certainly not going with an interval other than a change time.
>>
>> Most people are like you in that they don't understand what it is they
>> buy.
>> They just replace it without thinking using any interval they feel like.
>> They probably don't even read the owners manual to see what it says.
>>
>> And that's OK.
>> You can replace your oil filter on any interval you feel like doing so.
>>
>> But I'm going to base my replacement on understanding what the filter
>> does.
>> And I'm also going to base it on understanding what the manufacturer
>> says.
>> And I'm going to base my replacement on choosing good filters to start
>> with.
>>
>> Having said that you're welcome to replace yours on any interval you
>> like.
>> But if you ask me how I choose my interval then don't only bring up
>> money.
>
> Yeah, say what you want but you bring up money every time. Seems like you
> want to save it and that's fine too. My engine has a 100k warranty and
> even if I don't keep the car that long the next owner gets benefit. Owners
> manual says change the filter.

On 26-03-2021 20:34 Scott Dorsey > wrote:

> No, you're not following the guidelines in the service manual.

Now you're just being silly.
Every car ever sold specified the current oil spec as the guidelines.

We've been at this since round about API SC days as I recall (do you?).
As I recall when the emission stuff hit the fan we jumped all the way to SD.

It's been that uphill climb ever since for every vehicle sold in the USA.

I pulled out my shop manual for a 1997 Japanese vehicle and it says on page
LU-1 "API grade SH Energy Conserving if multigrade engine oil or ILSAC
multigrade engine oil SAE 5W30 is the best choice for your vehicle, for good
fuel economy, land good starting in cold weather." On page LU-2 it says to
use 5.4 liters (5.6 US qts) with oil filter change and 4.7 liters (4.2 US
qts) without oil filter change.

It even specifies a "Dry Fill" on page LU-3 of 5.8 liters (6.1 US qts) which
I don't remember if I've seen that in other service manuals (have you?).

Looking in a 2002 German factory manual on page 020-10 under "Maintenance" I
see my own handwritten note to not to use LL-04. On page 020-6 are the
"Maintenance Tables" and here it says to change both the oil & filter for
Table a. Oil Service, and the same for Table b "Inspection I Service" and
Table d "Oil Service" it says in the chart to use 7.5 liters (7.9 US qt) of
5W-30 synthetic oil BMW part no. 07 51 0 017 866 (LL-01).

> Because
> if your car was made in 1990 then the oil described in the service manual
> is no longer being manufactured.

Stop being silly.
It gets better with each designation.
Sometimes it matters. Sometimes it don't.

> Is the current oil better or worse than the oil that was originally
> specified? It's likely much better. But you don't really know. All
> you can do is drive and hope.

Stop it with the silliness.
It don't get worse for motor oil or for oil filters.

> There are some cases in which the current oil formulations may be
> problematic for older vehicles. 1990 isn't old enough to worry about,
> but some people drive vehicles where they might worry.

I don't know why I'm bothering to pull out my manuals just because most of
you pull all your statements out of your own asses instead of the manual.

You made me go back to my trunk to push the talisman aside (to ward off
those tigers) and on page MA-9 it says to use 6-3/8 qt (US measure) with oil
filter and 5-7/8 qt (US measure) without oil filter and in the "Recommended
fluids" column it says "Energy Conserving Oils of API SG asterik 2, asterik
3.

Asterik 2 For further details see Recommended SAE viscosity number (MA-10)
Asterik 3 Energy conserving oils. These oils can be identified by such
labels as EC-I, EC-II, energy conserving, energy saving, improved fuel
economy, etc.

On page MA-10 there is a viscosity chart with the captain of "10W30 is
preferable if the ambient temperature is above -18C (0F). 20W-40 and 20W50
are usable if the ambient temperature is above 10C (50F) for all seasons.

Anyways out of three factory manuals the two Japanese manuals specify oil
without filter and only the German manual specifies the oil with the filter
every time.

I don't know why I bother to dig these up just because most of you pulled
your comments out of your asses which is why you're wrong on all counts.

In the end (given that's where your ideas come from) you can change your oil
and filter on any interval you like but stop making up **** about the
factory specifications please.

Two out of three of my own shop manuals refute everything you people claim.