If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Dave > wrote:
> Can't stand Yates. Arrogant, pompous twit. YMMV. > And as an aside, it was Tom Friedman, not Fareed Zakaria. It was Fareed. http://fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/030705.html -- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 |
Ads |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Gordon McGrew > wrote:
> So could someone please summarize this dirty little secret? http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=9489 The hybrid portion is filled with diatribe and a few factoids. Other than the negative spin that Yates is deliberately putting on it, I don't see any misstatements. The hybrid market is small. Yates cites the wonderful surveys from J.D.Powers. As a J.D.Powers member, I see that the surveys are all whatever the buyer of the survey wants them to be. He says all of the hybrids cost more to manufacture than the sales premium, and that manufacturers are losing money on them. Toyota says that's not true, but it has been questioned. The MPG goes down when you run the A/C. That is surprisingly true. The MPG drops a couple of miles per gallon with the load of A/C. It's a small percentage, that isn't noticed when your H2 is only getting 8mpg to begin with, but a 5% drop at 50mpg is noticeable. Plus the hybrid owners are paying attention. Brock is trying to ignore his mileage, A/C or not. http://fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/030705.html Fareed's article is dismissed with an italicized "voila 500mpg!", knowing full well that it must be false. I doubt if he even read the article beyond the mention of methanol. It is a spin. 500mpg of Gasoline. But there are other components. And it is a speech that President Bush "could make tomorrow". It is not a statement that such a thing does exist, although he does explore it. "Here's the math (thanks to Gal Luft, a tireless <and independent> advocate of energy security). The current crop of hybrid cars get around 50 miles per gallon. Make it a plug-in and you can get 75 miles. Replace the conventional fuel tank with a flexible-fuel tank that can run on a combination of 15 percent petroleum and 85 percent ethanol or methanol, and you get between 400 and 500 miles per gallon of gasoline. (You don't get 500 miles per gallon of fuel, but the crucial task is to lessen the use of petroleum. And ethanol and methanol are much cheaper than gasoline, so fuel costs would drop dramatically.) " The comment about ethanol and methanol being cheaper is dubious. I tend to agree with Brock on that one, unless the production becomes ubiquitous, reducing the transportation costs. I think plug-in hybrids are the way to go. My Ford Escape Hybrid would run the gas engine for the required few minutes every day, but would run electric-only every workday, plugging in to my home solar power system for recharging at night. The ICE would still be there for needed additional power, or for long trips. I could easily get 500mpg of gasoline with no other energy source but the sun. The upfront cost might be high, but I personally don't care about that. I will amortize today's purchase price over a period of many years to eliminate my need for foreign oil. -- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
Dave > wrote:
> And as an aside, it was Tom Friedman, not Fareed Zakaria. Hmmm. Everybody's right. Tom Friedman, "As Toyota Goes" < http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/op...erland&emc=rss > Fareed Zakaria, " Imagine: 500 Miles Per Gallon " http://fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/030705.html and they are both acknowledge the work by Gal Luft as their source. http://www.setamericafree.org/news.htm -- --- Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5 |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
|
#45
|
|||
|
|||
You forgot to mention, he's also a lawyer.
|
#46
|
|||
|
|||
In article >, wrote:
>It was Fareed. >http://fareedzakaria.com/articles/newsweek/030705.html I stand corrected. Friedman also wrote a column on this http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/17/opinion/17friedman. html? ex=1276660800&en=da9affdfc40683db&ei=5090&partner= rssuserland&emc= rss But it looks like Zakaria's was first. |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
|
#48
|
|||
|
|||
Abeness wrote:
> jim beam wrote: > >> no, it's not impossible, but neither is actively reducing the mercury >> content of the oceans or mining manganese from the moon. it's just >> wildly dangerous and spectacularly uneconomic. sounds great >> politically though, that /that's/ what the whole hydrogen car hoopla >> is all about. and the extraction of "research funds" of course. > > > Maybe so. Out of curiosity, what would be your suggestion for an > alternative power source for consumer vehicles? it's not necessary or practical to go to a wholly alternative fuel model. but i'd go pure electric /if/ the power source was nuclear or wind/solar/geothermal, etc. but that would only be practical for local commute traffic affording known recharge schedules. the current electric car model [such as it is] is not so great because burning fossil fuels to generate electricity that charges batteries is only marginally more efficient than burning the fuel in the car. i'd also consider fuel cells. better conversion efficiency, and the fuel supply system is already in place. imo, the best most practical solution that meets the needs of urban, suburban and country dwellers is to encourage the use of smaller more efficient vehicles, strongly discourage the use of ridiculous gas guzzlers, and actually deploy known technology that increases thermodynamic efficiency. and all the folk that drive huge vehicles because they "need" them should go to europe for a few minutes to get some perspective. in europe, vehicles are smaller, substantially more efficient and do exactly the same job as the giant stuff we have here. tradesmen still haul their tools & supplies without gigantic trucks. soccer moms still drive their kids around without the gigantic suburban. delivery trucks still carry the same payload with half the engine size. last time i looked, the average american household consumed /double/ the energy per unit compared with the next highest consumer country. that's not because we're an impoverished techno-desert that doesn't know any better, it's because we just don't put this stuff on the agenda. if we got our act together, we'd be able to design, build & sell this stuff around the globe and make a huge fortune, but hey. |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
In article >, jim beam > wrote:
Jim, overall you make some good points. And I do agree that we should be working on the 10-20-30% improvements that can be had by conservation, downsizing, hybridizing, etc. But that still puts out a lot of CO2 and consumes lots of gasoline. So I think it slows down the looming crisis (if you subscribe to the evidence), but doesn't halt them. >i'd also consider fuel cells. better conversion efficiency, and the >fuel supply system is already in place. Gasoline-based fuel cell research has been all-but abandoned. I could go into the issues, but they are numerous. Hydrogen fuel cells are what all the auto companies are spending their R&D effort on, to the tune of over $1B. Note that is corporate money, not tax payer (though the DOE budget over the next 5 years is slated at a combined $1.7B or so). Direct methanol may have small portable application. Large stationary may be natural gas based. Link: http://www.eere.energy. gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/committee_report.pdf |
#50
|
|||
|
|||
>>I would stay away from hybrids. Saw one die in the middle of traffic - no
power and creating massive backups.<< Yessiree. YOU saw one die, so we should all stay away from them. No other kind of car has ever died in the middle of traffic, with no power and creating massive backups...just hybrids. Thanks for today's Usenet entertainment. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LIDAR Trial this Week | [email protected] | Driving | 17 | April 9th 06 02:44 AM |
The dangers of DRLs | 223rem | Driving | 399 | July 25th 05 11:28 PM |
Mission impossible: Replacing prelude side lamp bulb | Chris | Honda | 3 | July 12th 05 01:52 PM |
98 Intrigue Dual A/C blows warm on one side | John Clonts | Technology | 0 | July 9th 05 09:56 PM |
What the heck is Dark Khaki | Roy | Jeep | 3 | January 25th 05 02:54 PM |