Corvette gismos and snake oil

There was a post recently about the new Z06 that needs a bit of
review, it was as follows.

"REPLY: Sounds like an awesome car overall. Id consider getting it
DynoTuned which will include optimizing air/fuel ratios , eliminating
1-4 shift, disable o2 sensor so you can update the exhaust if you
like, have the radiator fan start ramping up sooner (and max. speed
sooner) for a cooler running motor , as well as a few other goodies.
I had my 2006 C6 done recently and its smoother running and more
responsive. I suspect fuel mileage will increase also."

Later it was said by the same contributor....

"Further, the Dyno Tuners dont 'disable the 02 sensor' , for, that
wouldnt make the car run correctly -- the O2 sensor is a vital and
necessary function of the Computer . ; they allow it to operate but
disable the DIC light from coming on. Theres no reason for you to be
uninformed when it comes to DynoTuning."

Double speak?

"REPLY: Headers improves the Z06 as well as a DynoTune. Go to
corvetteforum.com . If the OP wants to keep it stock then thats his
perogative but theres advantages to be had from a performance,
efficiency, and motor longevity standpoint ; more than how the GM
Engineers designed any car including the Z06."

Huh? Never has there been an issue about the use of headers, claim was
that a tune made it "smoother running and more responsive. I suspect
fuel mileage will increase also."

Then he added.......

"As with any reputable DynoShop, they gave me an actual
printout of the DynoPull showing that the mods i made (headers, 3"
exhaust, x crossover, 160 f. stat, with tuning)...yielded 42 rwhp and
45 rwtq over a stock 2006 C6 MN6 ."

No air inlet volumn change and used the stock mufflers? What good was
the higher exhaust flow if you can't get air/fuel in or out?

Being "uninformed" and a bit confused by the contradicting posts I
thought I'd do something about it so here’s the drill, called the C6
tuner of my choice and talked with them to get my C6 tuned as a base
vehicle, (Corsa only). Their question was, why? What little HP
increase that would be gained would cost about $500 and all day in the
shop. On the other hand if I were to do a cam, cam head, or cam, head,
header package then they would do a base line tune/run for a
comparison after the package was complete. The term “very little HP
gain” was again used for a base engine tune. On the other hand they
can tweak torque management and some unspecified settings to gain a
minimal HP/TQ that you might register by the seat of your pants. They
did not mention disabling the o2 sensor or it's light which is what
I'd expect from a reputable tuner.


If you were to gain that smoother running engine and the 2-4 miles per
gallon, and there was no claim to that, it would feel better while you
drove the 50,000 miles to save enough on fuel to pay for the tune.
$4.00 per gallon/30=13¢ per mile. $4.00 per gallon/33=12¢ per mile. So
it costs 1¢ a mile less with a 3 mile per gallon increase in fuel
economy, $500 tune / .01¢= 50,000 miles.



I still haven’t ruled out a dyno tune but I would expect that “seat of
the pants’ increased HP/TQ feeling on a base engine to be orgasmic for
that kind of expense. The tuner was very informative and gave me
information that was clear and concise plus I did not feel pressured
to buy from them. Even the tuner will update your tune to the latest
GM flash update before they start any tweaks, so keep you Corvette up
to date. My feelings now are that I would do a hard engine
modification before I would do just the dyno tune, sort of what was
said in the beginning when I was uninformed.


--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
64 Red/red/white top/4spd

On Aug 20, 9:25*am, "Dad" > wrote:
> There was a post recently about the new Z06 that needs a bit of
> review, it was as follows.
>
> "REPLY: *Sounds like an awesome car overall. *Id consider getting it
> DynoTuned which will include optimizing air/fuel ratios , eliminating
> 1-4 shift, disable o2 sensor so you can update the exhaust if you
> like, have the radiator fan start ramping up sooner (and max. speed
> sooner) for a cooler running motor , as well as a few other goodies.
> I had my 2006 C6 done recently and its smoother running and more
> responsive. I suspect fuel mileage will increase also."
>
> Later it was said by the same contributor....
>
> "Further, *the Dyno Tuners dont 'disable the 02 sensor' *, for, that
> wouldnt make the car run correctly -- the O2 sensor is a vital and
> necessary function of the Computer . * ; they allow it to operate but
> disable the DIC light from coming on. *Theres no reason for you to be
> uninformed when it comes to DynoTuning."
>
> Double speak?
>
> "REPLY: *Headers improves the Z06 as well as a DynoTune. Go to
> corvetteforum.com * . If the OP wants to keep it stock then thats his
> perogative but theres advantages to be had from a performance,
> efficiency, *and motor longevity standpoint *; *more than how the GM
> Engineers designed any car including the Z06."
>
> Huh? Never has there been an issue about the use of headers, claim was
> that a tune made it "smoother running and more responsive. I suspect
> fuel mileage will increase also."
>
> Then he added.......
>
> "As with any reputable DynoShop, they gave me an actual
> printout of the DynoPull *showing that the mods i made (headers, 3"
> exhaust, x crossover, *160 f. stat, with tuning)...yielded 42 rwhp and
> 45 rwtq over a stock 2006 C6 MN6 ."
>
> No air inlet volumn change and used the stock mufflers? What good was
> the higher exhaust flow if you can't get air/fuel in or out?
>
> Being "uninformed" *and a bit confused by the contradicting posts I
> thought I'd do something about it so here’s the drill, called the C6
> tuner of my choice and talked with them to get my C6 tuned as a base
> vehicle, (Corsa only). Their question was, why? What little HP
> increase that would be gained would cost about $500 and all day in the
> shop. On the other hand if I were to do a cam, cam head, or cam, head,
> header package then they would do a base line tune/run for a
> comparison after the package was complete. The term “very little HP
> gain” was again used for a base engine tune. On the other hand they
> can tweak torque management and some unspecified settings to gain a
> minimal HP/TQ that you might register by the seat of your pants. They
> did not mention disabling the o2 sensor or it's light which is what
> I'd expect from a reputable tuner.
>
> If you were to gain that smoother running engine and the 2-4 miles per
> gallon, and there was no claim to that, it would feel better while you
> drove the 50,000 miles to save enough on fuel to pay for the tune.
> $4.00 per gallon/30=13¢ per mile. $4.00 per gallon/33=12¢ per mile. So
> it costs 1¢ a mile less with a 3 mile per gallon increase in fuel
> economy, $500 tune / .01¢= 50,000 miles.
>
> I still haven’t ruled out a dyno tune but I would expect that “seat of
> the pants’ increased HP/TQ feeling on a base engine to be orgasmic for
> that kind of expense. The tuner was very informative and gave me
> information that was clear and concise plus I did not feel pressured
> to buy from them. *Even the tuner will update your tune to the latest
> GM flash update before they start any tweaks, so keep you Corvette up
> to date. My feelings now are that I would do a hard engine
> modification before I would do just the dyno tune, sort of what was
> said in the beginning when I was uninformed.
>
> --
> Dad
> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
> 64 Red/red/white top/4spd

So, after digesting all the above info, what you're saying is that a
"certain person" is full of crap.
No surprise there.

Andy Granatelli made himself a fortune selling "snake oil" and STP
decals.

I can't provide a reference to this, but some 50 years ago, a
petroleum engineer told me that STP was just ortho-Creosol, a chemical
in creosote which is used to soak railroad ties and telephone poles

A cloud appeared on his corporate horizon
In 1976 STP faced a consumer protection order that required it to have
scientific backing for certain statements and prohibited making false
claims.
In 1978 it paid $500,000 civil penalty over claims, and in 1995
$888,000 to settle Federal Trade Commission charges of false
advertising.[

Andy Granatelli made himself a fortune selling "snake oil" and STP
decals.




Richard Petty did quite well with it too.

I think I had one of those cool decals on my lunch box.

Ed

On Aug 20, 11:25*am, "Dad" > wrote:
> There was a post recently about the new Z06 that needs a bit of
> review, it was as follows.
>
> "REPLY: *Sounds like an awesome car overall. *Id consider getting it
> DynoTuned which will include optimizing air/fuel ratios , eliminating
> 1-4 shift, disable o2 sensor so you can update the exhaust if you
> like, have the radiator fan start ramping up sooner (and max. speed
> sooner) for a cooler running motor , as well as a few other goodies.
> I had my 2006 C6 done recently and its smoother running and more
> responsive. I suspect fuel mileage will increase also."
>
> Later it was said by the same contributor....
>
> "Further, *the Dyno Tuners dont 'disable the 02 sensor' *, for, that
> wouldnt make the car run correctly -- the O2 sensor is a vital and
> necessary function of the Computer . * ; they allow it to operate but
> disable the DIC light from coming on. *Theres no reason for you to be
> uninformed when it comes to DynoTuning."
>
> Double speak?
>
> "REPLY: *Headers improves the Z06 as well as a DynoTune. Go to
> corvetteforum.com * . If the OP wants to keep it stock then thats his
> perogative but theres advantages to be had from a performance,
> efficiency, *and motor longevity standpoint *; *more than how the GM
> Engineers designed any car including the Z06."
>
> Huh? Never has there been an issue about the use of headers, claim was
> that a tune made it "smoother running and more responsive. I suspect
> fuel mileage will increase also."
>
> Then he added.......
>
> "As with any reputable DynoShop, they gave me an actual
> printout of the DynoPull *showing that the mods i made (headers, 3"
> exhaust, x crossover, *160 f. stat, with tuning)...yielded 42 rwhp and
> 45 rwtq over a stock 2006 C6 MN6 ."
>
> No air inlet volumn change and used the stock mufflers? What good was
> the higher exhaust flow if you can't get air/fuel in or out?
>
> Being "uninformed" *and a bit confused by the contradicting posts I
> thought I'd do something about it so here’s the drill, called the C6
> tuner of my choice and talked with them to get my C6 tuned as a base
> vehicle, (Corsa only). Their question was, why? What little HP
> increase that would be gained would cost about $500 and all day in the
> shop. On the other hand if I were to do a cam, cam head, or cam, head,
> header package then they would do a base line tune/run for a
> comparison after the package was complete. The term “very little HP
> gain” was again used for a base engine tune. On the other hand they
> can tweak torque management and some unspecified settings to gain a
> minimal HP/TQ that you might register by the seat of your pants. They
> did not mention disabling the o2 sensor or it's light which is what
> I'd expect from a reputable tuner.
>
> If you were to gain that smoother running engine and the 2-4 miles per
> gallon, and there was no claim to that, it would feel better while you
> drove the 50,000 miles to save enough on fuel to pay for the tune.
> $4.00 per gallon/30=13¢ per mile. $4.00 per gallon/33=12¢ per mile. So
> it costs 1¢ a mile less with a 3 mile per gallon increase in fuel
> economy, $500 tune / .01¢= 50,000 miles.
>
> I still haven’t ruled out a dyno tune but I would expect that “seat of
> the pants’ increased HP/TQ feeling on a base engine to be orgasmic for
> that kind of expense. The tuner was very informative and gave me
> information that was clear and concise plus I did not feel pressured
> to buy from them. *Even the tuner will update your tune to the latest
> GM flash update before they start any tweaks, so keep you Corvette up
> to date. My feelings now are that I would do a hard engine
> modification before I would do just the dyno tune, sort of what was
> said in the beginning when I was uninformed.
>
> - -
> Dad
> 05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
> 72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
> 64 Red/red/white top/4spd

Youre still uninformed . Go to www.corvetteforum.com to the C6 Tune
section and the C6 Technical section. There you will find C6 owners
and Tuners displaying power increases and other benefits from a
professional DynoTune (with and without modifications performed).

> wrote in message
...
Snip
*Youre still uninformed . Go to www.corvetteforum.com to the C6 Tune
*section and the C6 Technical section. There you will find C6 owners
*and Tuners displaying power increases and other benefits from a
*professional DynoTune (with and without modifications performed).

Been there and not two tuners nor two owners nor two sets of figures
can be agreed on. There was one thread that had the base figures so
varied that the HP gain you're bragging about was normal variance. The
Corvette forums are a good place to get information but most is of
little value for a base tune as few people do things the same way.
Your great running engine has some of the add ons that should add some
HP but not without added inflow of air and better flow through after
market mufflers. Not a base tune.

The point still is that just a tune will not add HP/TQ, not when it is
less that the % of variance allowed by the manufacture of the engine.
Now if you want to start disabling the o2 sensor and a few other
illegal items as you suggest maybe you will see a big jump in both,
doubtful. Silly GM engineers, what do they know.

As proven by your unproven claims most of it is bragging rights, not
fact. I love it when they start arguing about what correction factor,
air temperature, how high their foot is off the ground and so on, it
still comes down to there is no way to know as you will note where the
2 tunes were done back to back and they still argued about the
validity of the numbers.

Don't start disabling the o2 sensor as this man suggests.