to change a Honda Accord 1988 model timing belt

"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> "Elle" > wrote
> > "TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >> "Elle" > wrote
> >> > "TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >> >> "Elle" > wrote
> >> >> > The number of clicks counts.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> There is only one click.
> >> >
> >> > The torque wrench has only about so many clicks in its life before
> >> > its calibration becomes too far off to be useful.
> >> >
> >> > Your measurement of breakloose torque requires several clicks per
> >> > measurement.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> There is only ONE click.
> >
> > You proceeded in 2 ft-lb increments. Are you saying you don't let it
> > click after each increment.
>
>
> Of course I did. Tht's the only way I knew it passed that figure without
> breaking loose.
>
> After the click, you can keep turning if you like, and the wrnch will
apply
> torque to the bolt, but that would be pretty stupid.
>
>
>
> >
> >> You've never actually used a click-type torque wrench.
> >
> > Right.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Well, have you?

Of course. I own two click torque wrenches (one high range; one low range)
and have mentioned them several times here.

We're probably having a miscommunication. You posted that you attempted to
estimate the breakloose torque of a wheel lugnut by using your torque wrench
on a lugnut you originally tightened to IIRC 75 ft-lbs. You set the torque
wrench (in reverse; flipped the lever on the head, probably) to I presume
something like 73 ft-lbs. the first time. The "click" was heard, whence you
raised the setting to 75 ft-lbs. The "click" was heard whence you raised it
to 77 ft-lbs. Etc. until you got to a setting of 90 ft-lbs. The lugnut
loosened, and no click was heard.

That's a buncha "clicks" to get to the 90 ft-lbs whence the bolt finally
loosened.

"jim beam" > wrote
> Elle wrote:
> > "TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >
> >>"Elle" > wrote
> >>
> >>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >>>
> >>>>"Elle" > wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>>The number of clicks counts.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>There is only one click.
> >>>
> >>>The torque wrench has only about so many clicks in its life before its
> >>>calibration becomes too far off to be useful.
> >>>
> >>>Your measurement of breakloose torque requires several clicks per
> >>>measurement.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>There is only ONE click.
> >
> >
> > You proceeded in 2 ft-lb increments. Are you saying you don't let it
click
> > after each increment.
> >
> >
> >>You've never actually used a click-type torque wrench.
> >
> >
> > Right. And I lie about my 91 Civic averaging 40+ mpg. And I lied about
Grade
> > 8 bolts being available at popular hardware stores. And what I said
(with
> > others) about clogged PCV valves reducing fuel mileage is a lie, too.
> >
> > All these things you said were lies, and you were shown wrong.
>
> come on kids, play nice or don't play at all.

Son, you should have called out Tegger. He is in the habit of insisting
someone is lying when he doesn't understand something posted. Indeed, one of
your posts tonight shows your own irritation with his saying as much of one
of your claims.

> > Torque wrenches do not stay calibrated forever. One crude measure of
when
> > one requires calibration is how many clicks it's seen.
>
> actually, it's not that crude. clicking torque wrenches that get
> regularly used in factory assembly work get recalibrated based on usage.

Noted.

Elle wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote
>
>>Elle wrote:
>>
>>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Elle" > wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Elle" > wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The number of clicks counts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is only one click.
>>>>>
>>>>>The torque wrench has only about so many clicks in its life before its
>>>>>calibration becomes too far off to be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>Your measurement of breakloose torque requires several clicks per
>>>>>measurement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is only ONE click.
>>>
>>>
>>>You proceeded in 2 ft-lb increments. Are you saying you don't let it
>
> click
>
>>>after each increment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You've never actually used a click-type torque wrench.
>>>
>>>
>>>Right. And I lie about my 91 Civic averaging 40+ mpg. And I lied about
>
> Grade
>
>>>8 bolts being available at popular hardware stores. And what I said
>
> (with
>
>>>others) about clogged PCV valves reducing fuel mileage is a lie, too.
>>>
>>>All these things you said were lies, and you were shown wrong.
>>
>>come on kids, play nice or don't play at all.
>
>
> Son, you should have called out Tegger. He is in the habit of insisting
> someone is lying when he doesn't understand something posted. Indeed, one of
> your posts tonight shows your own irritation with his saying as much of one
> of your claims.

kid_S_ is plural. that means BOTH of you.

>
>
>>>Torque wrenches do not stay calibrated forever. One crude measure of
>
> when
>
>>>one requires calibration is how many clicks it's seen.
>>
>>actually, it's not that crude. clicking torque wrenches that get
>>regularly used in factory assembly work get recalibrated based on usage.
>
>
> Noted.
>
>

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> Elle wrote:
> > "jim beam" > wrote
> >
> >>Elle wrote:
> >>
> >>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Elle" > wrote
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"TeGGeR®" > wrote
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>"Elle" > wrote
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The number of clicks counts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>There is only one click.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>The torque wrench has only about so many clicks in its life before
its
> >>>>>calibration becomes too far off to be useful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Your measurement of breakloose torque requires several clicks per
> >>>>>measurement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>There is only ONE click.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You proceeded in 2 ft-lb increments. Are you saying you don't let it
> >
> > click
> >
> >>>after each increment.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You've never actually used a click-type torque wrench.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Right. And I lie about my 91 Civic averaging 40+ mpg. And I lied about
> >
> > Grade
> >
> >>>8 bolts being available at popular hardware stores. And what I said
> >
> > (with
> >
> >>>others) about clogged PCV valves reducing fuel mileage is a lie, too.
> >>>
> >>>All these things you said were lies, and you were shown wrong.
> >>
> >>come on kids, play nice or don't play at all.
> >
> >
> > Son, you should have called out Tegger. He is in the habit of insisting
> > someone is lying when he doesn't understand something posted. Indeed,
one of
> > your posts tonight shows your own irritation with his saying as much of
one
> > of your claims.
>
> kid_S_ is plural. that means BOTH of you.

Sorry, Jim, but you're not being fair. You too called out Tegger for saying
you were lying in a post tonight. It's a bad habit of his. He needs a bit of
patience and tenacity in ensuring he understands what's being said. Though
he'll likely never give in on the PCV valve matter. Which I note time and
again you don't call him out on. But you're quick to call me out if I post
something erroneous. I on the other hand look the other way at your really
poorly thought-out theory re precesssion. It is not happening. You've
confused "precession" with something much simpler: Shaft turns. Bolt doesn't
turn as quickly. Relative motion occurs between the two. Bolt tightens. In
theory. <shrug>

"Son" is singular. That means you are behaving like a child along with
Tegger.

Some time someone will mark their pulley bolt and pulley and report back on
relative motion (and I have in mind more than the angular lash of the key).
There may not be any. Yet there may be. Dunno. I am not satisfied that
galling, aggravated by heat cycling, is the only thing at work here. But it
could be. That's the difference between Tegger's and my approach, so far.

I return to our regularly scheduled programming, after the usual flames in
retort.

Elle wrote:
<snip>
> Sorry, Jim, but you're not being fair.

who cares? i'm just sick of the pair of you squabbling. if you think
i'm somehow singling you out for special attention, you're mistaken -
you just happened to be at the end of the thread when i got home and
chose to reply. you are /way/ too ready to wear that "victim" teeshirt
your daddy gave you.

"jim beam" > wrote
> Elle wrote:
> <snip>
> > Sorry, Jim, but you're not being fair.
>
> who cares?

Evidently you do.

> i'm just sick of the pair of you squabbling.

I'm sick of Tegger calling people liars. I'm sick of him asserting diagnoses
as fact rather than a best guess.


> if you think
> i'm somehow singling you out for special attention, you're mistaken -

You're consistent in this habit.

> you just happened to be at the end of the thread when i got home and
> chose to reply. you are /way/ too ready to wear that "victim" teeshirt
> your daddy gave you.

This is the ready defense of someone who disputes the evidence of prejudice
in the world and practices it himself. <shrug>

You're still wrong about the precession. Way wrong.

"Elle" > wrote in
k.net:

> "TeGGeR®" > wrote

>> >> You've never actually used a click-type torque wrench.
>> >
>> > Right.
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Well, have you?
>
> Of course. I own two click torque wrenches (one high range; one low
> range) and have mentioned them several times here.


Apologies.

I misinterpreted what you meant when you said "number of clicks matters".

Of course you're right, they do. But that's independent of what you do with
the wrench so long as you're not overloading it.

This is why torque wrench calibration services exist. You're supposed to
get them recalibrated once in a while to compensate for normal wear.



--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On 2005-11-07, jim beam > wrote:
>
> actually, it's not that crude. clicking torque wrenches that get
> regularly used in factory assembly work get recalibrated based on usage.

Time for a little anecdotal insertion.

When I was responsible for calibrating torque wrenches on a hi-tech
production floor, one of the engineers related how when he worked at
Boeing Aircraft, all torque wrenches were calibrated twice per shift.
He also added, based on his experience of how much each type of
torque wrench was out of spec when calibrated, micrometer-click torque
wrenches were the worst for maintaining correct torque settings.
Second were dial-type wrenches, with beam torque wrenches being the
most consistently accurate.

My company used click style wrenches which were calibrated once per
use (several days between use). But, they were the single setting
type, one torque setting per wrench. This because micrometer adjust
torque wrenches work over such a wide range, they were not accurate
enough for our needs. Click type wrenches work on a spring and detent
arrangement. The spring grows weaker with time and use and the detent
wears. This degradation of components requires constant recalibration
to be accurate. You start tossing in repeated adjustments up and down
a 50-75 ft/lb range and accuracy is a crap shoot.

nb

notbob > wrote in
:

>
> My company used click style wrenches which were calibrated once per
> use (several days between use). But, they were the single setting
> type, one torque setting per wrench. This because micrometer adjust
> torque wrenches work over such a wide range, they were not accurate
> enough for our needs. Click type wrenches work on a spring and detent
> arrangement. The spring grows weaker with time and use and the detent
> wears. This degradation of components requires constant recalibration
> to be accurate. You start tossing in repeated adjustments up and down
> a 50-75 ft/lb range and accuracy is a crap shoot.
>


Guess I'd better get mine done soon.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam > wrote in
t:

> Elle wrote:
> <snip>
>> Sorry, Jim, but you're not being fair.
>
> who cares? i'm just sick of the pair of you squabbling.



I'm not squabbling, I'm debating. She's the one accusing me of saying that
she lied. I said she was WRONG, not mendacious.

I'm not going to suddenly say she's (or you are) right just to be nice. I
am convinced you guys are incorrect and will continue to say so.

(Back OT for a moment: That '91 pulley you found was undertorqued, had
Loctite on it, and was severely galled on the back. I'd suggest that
managed to find a car that's had unusually inept servicing.)


> if you think
> i'm somehow singling you out for special attention, you're mistaken -
> you just happened to be at the end of the thread when i got home and
> chose to reply. you are /way/ too ready to wear that "victim" teeshirt
> your daddy gave you.


I noticed that too. She's awful quick to get angry at somebody. It's just a
debate, fer chrissake.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/