Witness: Trayvon Martin attacked Zimmerman

In article
>,
"\"Skittles\" the Hoodrat" > wrote:

> On Mar 28, 9:30*am, Harry K > wrote:
> > On Mar 27, 2:36*pm, Dave Head > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:26:55 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> >
> > > >"walt tonne" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
> > > >> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
> > > >> .
> > > >> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
> > > >> .
> > > >> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
> > > >> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so
> > > >> far
> > > >> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
> > > >> killed.
> > > >> .
> > > >> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
> > > >> all.
> >
> > > >> . Our sister
> > > >> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
> > > >> .
> > > >> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put
> > > >> together
> > > >> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
> >
> > > >> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
> > > >> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
> > > >> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
> > > >> have gone to jail.
> >
> > > >> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
> > > >> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
> > > >> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
> >
> > > >> . But one
> > > >> man's testimony could be key for the police.
> >
> > > >> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
> > > >> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
> >
> > > >> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
> > > >> in red.
> >
> > > >> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not
> > > >> want
> > > >> to be shown on camera.
> >
> > > >> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
> > > >> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
> > > >> Zimmerman.
> >
> > > >> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating
> > > >> up
> > > >> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
> > > >> dead at that point," John said.
> >
> > > >> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
> > > >> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
> > > >> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
> > > >> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt
> > > >> was
> > > >> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
> > > >> shooting.
> > > >>http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
> >
> > > >Most interesting!!!
> >
> > > >==================================
> > > >The problem for Zimmerman is that he claims self defense in an action
> > > >where
> > > >it is known that he was not defending, he was advancing.
> >
> > > Now, that is something we don't actually know. *He says no, he was
> > > heading back to his vehicle when the kid clipped him from behind, and
> > > then began beating the crap out of him. *He has a broken nose,
> > > injuries to the back of his head, and grass stains on the back of his
> > > clothes to corroborate that, as well as one or more witnesses that saw
> > > the kid straddling him and beating the crap out of him. *He figured he
> > > was going to get hurt real bad, and the kid was going after his gun,
> > > so he got it first and shot the kid. *That's the scenario that makes
> > > the most sense, given his injuries and the eyewitness accounts.
> >
> > > >Whatever happened
> > > >before shots rang out had changed from a defensive posture for Zimmernam
> > > >to
> > > >an aggressive posture. Whatever self defense he was undertaking had
> > > >stopped
> > > >happening.
> >
> > > >He is on record, by the 911 tapes, as stating that he was in pursuit of
> > > >Martin. It is difficult to uphold a defensive posture as you are
> > > >advancing
> > > >on somebody that is actively retreating. I think that Zimmerman has put
> > > >himself into a heap of trouble.
> >
> > > >Obviously there are facts not known, but of those that are known, I
> > > >think
> > > >Zimmerman is gonna find himself in trouble.
> >
> > And considering his apparently unwarranted stalking of Trayvon I can
> > see Trayvon finally having enough and attacking him.
> >
> > Harry K- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Gee,how do you react when walking down a sidewalk and someone happens
> to be following too close and going to the same place you are? Do you
> turn around,jump them and start beating the crap out of em?
> SHHHEEESSSHH !!
>
>
> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.

1. He did live there; at least for the time being.

2. A hoodie is not dressing "like a common ghetto thug gangster", you
pathetic bigot.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On 4/2/2012 5:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "\"Skittles\" the > wrote:
>
>> On Mar 28, 9:30 am, Harry > wrote:
>>> On Mar 27, 2:36 pm, Dave > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:26:55 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
>>>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> "walt > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> On Mar 24, 4:46 pm, (Capt. Justice) wrote:
>>>>>> Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> ORLANDO - A witness we haven't
>>>>>> heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so
>>>>>> far
>>>>>> of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and
>>>>>> killed.
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it
>>>>>> all.
>>>
>>>>>> . Our sister
>>>>>> station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put
>>>>>> together
>>>>>> on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
>>>
>>>>>> The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is
>>>>>> just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury. It shows more now
>>>>>> about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't
>>>>>> have gone to jail.
>>>
>>>>>> Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The
>>>>>> dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.
>>>>>> And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.
>>>
>>>>>> . But one
>>>>>> man's testimony could be key for the police.
>>>
>>>>>> "The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me:
>>>>>> 'help, help and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.
>>>
>>>>>> Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; . Zimmerman was
>>>>>> in red.
>>>
>>>>>> The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to be shown on camera.
>>>
>>>>>> His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up
>>>>>> Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of
>>>>>> Zimmerman.
>>>
>>>>>> "When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was
>>>>>> dead at that point," John said.
>>>
>>>>>> Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information
>>>>>> released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back
>>>>>> to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen. Sanford police say
>>>>>> Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the
>>>>>> shooting.
>>>>>> http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/new...tin-attacked-z...
>>>
>>>>> Most interesting!!!
>>>
>>>>> ==================================
>>>>> The problem for Zimmerman is that he claims self defense in an action
>>>>> where
>>>>> it is known that he was not defending, he was advancing.
>>>
>>>> Now, that is something we don't actually know. He says no, he was
>>>> heading back to his vehicle when the kid clipped him from behind, and
>>>> then began beating the crap out of him. He has a broken nose,
>>>> injuries to the back of his head, and grass stains on the back of his
>>>> clothes to corroborate that, as well as one or more witnesses that saw
>>>> the kid straddling him and beating the crap out of him. He figured he
>>>> was going to get hurt real bad, and the kid was going after his gun,
>>>> so he got it first and shot the kid. That's the scenario that makes
>>>> the most sense, given his injuries and the eyewitness accounts.
>>>
>>>>> Whatever happened
>>>>> before shots rang out had changed from a defensive posture for Zimmernam
>>>>> to
>>>>> an aggressive posture. Whatever self defense he was undertaking had
>>>>> stopped
>>>>> happening.
>>>
>>>>> He is on record, by the 911 tapes, as stating that he was in pursuit of
>>>>> Martin. It is difficult to uphold a defensive posture as you are
>>>>> advancing
>>>>> on somebody that is actively retreating. I think that Zimmerman has put
>>>>> himself into a heap of trouble.
>>>
>>>>> Obviously there are facts not known, but of those that are known, I
>>>>> think
>>>>> Zimmerman is gonna find himself in trouble.
>>>
>>> And considering his apparently unwarranted stalking of Trayvon I can
>>> see Trayvon finally having enough and attacking him.
>>>
>>> Harry K- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Gee,how do you react when walking down a sidewalk and someone happens
>> to be following too close and going to the same place you are? Do you
>> turn around,jump them and start beating the crap out of em?
>> SHHHEEESSSHH !!
>>
>>
>> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
>> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
>> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
>> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
>> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
>
> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.

Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
to school?

In article >,
Sancho Panza > wrote:

> >> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
> >> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
> >> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
> >> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
> >> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
> >
> > 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
>
> Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
> to school?

I don't know why he was living there, but he was living there with his
father.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Apr 2, 4:13 pm, Alan Baker > wrote:

> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
>
***** Actually, he was new in the neighborhood, staying with
his father's girl friend, after being kicked out of school a few
days before. An unfamiliar face to someone trying to prevent
further burglaries in that neighborhood.


> 2. A hoodie is not dressing "like a common ghetto thug gangster", you
> pathetic bigot.
>

**** I haven't aclue what a common ghetto thug gangster dresses
like, but wearing a ski mask into a bank is roughly the same thing,
and is going to cause some reaction, ESPECIALLY if the neighborhood
has recently had a rash of break-ins.

***** It was a perfect storm of bad judgements, on both sides, but
the bottom line is : If Zimmerman WAS attacked, he has the law
on his side to use anything he feels is necessary to prevent
further injury. Unfortunately for Travon, it went to the limit.

In article
>,
AndyS > wrote:

> On Apr 2, 4:13 pm, Alan Baker > wrote:
>
> > 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
> >
> ***** Actually, he was new in the neighborhood, staying with
> his father's girl friend, after being kicked out of school a few
> days before. An unfamiliar face to someone trying to prevent
> further burglaries in that neighborhood.

Which is irrelevant to the question of whether or not he lived there.

>
>
> > 2. A hoodie is not dressing "like a common ghetto thug gangster", you
> > pathetic bigot.
> >
>
> **** I haven't aclue what a common ghetto thug gangster dresses
> like, but wearing a ski mask into a bank is roughly the same thing,
> and is going to cause some reaction, ESPECIALLY if the neighborhood
> has recently had a rash of break-ins.

Wearing a ski mask into a bank is the same has wearing a hoodie? Really?

>
> ***** It was a perfect storm of bad judgements, on both sides, but
> the bottom line is : If Zimmerman WAS attacked, he has the law
> on his side to use anything he feels is necessary to prevent
> further injury. Unfortunately for Travon, it went to the limit.

No. It's not quite that simple.

And what if Zimmerman accosted Martin? Doesn't Martin have the right to
defend himself?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On 4/2/2012 7:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> In >,
> Sancho > wrote:
>
>>>> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
>>>> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
>>>> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
>>>> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
>>>> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
>>>
>>> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
>>
>> Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
>> to school?
>
> I don't know why he was living there, but he was living there with his
> father.
>
If he was living there, why wasn't he attending school there?

In article >,
Sancho Panza > wrote:

> On 4/2/2012 7:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> > In >,
> > Sancho > wrote:
> >
> >>>> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
> >>>> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
> >>>> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
> >>>> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
> >>>> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
> >>>
> >>> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
> >>
> >> Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
> >> to school?
> >
> > I don't know why he was living there, but he was living there with his
> > father.
> >
> If he was living there, why wasn't he attending school there?

What does that have to do with anything.

He was living there.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On 04/02/2012 02:13 PM, Alan Baker wrote:

> 2. A hoodie is not dressing "like a common ghetto thug gangster", you
> pathetic bigot.

Actually, it is. When they want to portray a thuggish punk in a movie,
he's wearing a hoodie with the hood up, he has his hands in his pockets,
his head is down, and he's slouching. Instant recognition that this is
not a person you want to invite to dinner.

Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

--
Cheers, Bev
================================================== ========
"It's no piece of cake, but it sure beats listening to Ted
Kennedy on the Senate floor."
- Jesse Helms describing heart surgery

On 4/2/2012 10:19 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> In >,
> Sancho > wrote:
>
>> On 4/2/2012 7:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> Sancho > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
>>>>>> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
>>>>>> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
>>>>>> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
>>>>>> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
>>>> to school?
>>>
>>> I don't know why he was living there, but he was living there with his
>>> father.
>>>
>> If he was living there, why wasn't he attending school there?
>
> What does that have to do with anything.
>
> He was living there.
>
You're right. Nothing has anything to do with anything. Including the
fact that he was a stranger in a neighborhood where he didn't live.

In article >,
Sancho Panza > wrote:

> On 4/2/2012 10:19 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> > In >,
> > Sancho > wrote:
> >
> >> On 4/2/2012 7:32 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> >>> In >,
> >>> Sancho > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>> Hey,I have an idea. For all you hoodrats that want the general
> >>>>>> populace to "fear and respect" you. If you don't want to be treated
> >>>>>> like a common ghetto thug gangster don't dress and act like one as you
> >>>>>> stroll through gated comminities where you don't live. The gates are
> >>>>>> there for a reason and it's not for decoration.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 1. He did live there; at least for the time being.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, was he suspended more than 10 days for taking a controlled substance
> >>>> to school?
> >>>
> >>> I don't know why he was living there, but he was living there with his
> >>> father.
> >>>
> >> If he was living there, why wasn't he attending school there?
> >
> > What does that have to do with anything.
> >
> > He was living there.
> >
> You're right. Nothing has anything to do with anything. Including the
> fact that he was a stranger in a neighborhood where he didn't live.

He did live there.

Being a stranger should not mean being a target...

....and let's face it: it would not have meant that if Trayvon Martin had
been white.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."