Premature Ball Joint Failure

On Mar 25, 3:10*pm, "Chris F." > wrote:
> * A couple years back I rebuilt my grandmas old '89 Honda Civic. She doesn't
> drive anymore, and I rarely drive due to health problems, but my parents
> have been use it quite often. A few days ago my Dad informed me that it
> wasn't steering properly, and I noticed the front right wheel was visibly
> out of camber. Once I got things apart, I discovered that the upper ball
> joint, which I had newly replaced 2 1/2 years ago, was completely worn out -
> no grease left at all, and the ball wobbling loosely in the socket. This
> part has less than 25000 km wear on it, making me wonder what could have
> gone wrong. There at two factors that I suspect may be involved, and since
> my knowledge is limited I will leave you to ponder which is the most
> feasible. First of all, the struts and springs on this car are badly worn
> and the car rides very low, and of course does not give a very comfortable
> ride on bumpy roads. I didn't replace them due to the extra time and cost,
> figuring there was lots of time since the car was not used heavily. The
> other factor is the ball joint boot cover. When I installed that control arm
> / ball joint, I removed the factory-supplied boot cover and installed a
> Polyurethane one (from Prothane) instead. I noticed that the new boot did
> not have a clip to retain it unlike the original, but figured it must be
> safe or they wouldn't be selling them. I now wonder if the aftermarket boot
> didn't seal properly, and allowed water / salt / etc. to get into the joint
> and ruin it. I'm now suspicious of the lower ball joints and tie rods ends
> as well, which I also covered with polyurethane boots, and am wondering if I
> should also take those apart and examine for similar damage.
> * I should also mention that all of these components are aftermarket stuff I
> bought online, as OEM was just too expensive.
> * I plan to replace both upper arms as a precaution, and use the
> factory-supplied boot covers next time. What I need advice on now, is how to
> prevent this premature failure from happening again.
> * Thanks for any advice.

I guess the questions would be, what brand were the parts you used,
and did they have grease fittings? There's a vast range of quality of
aftermarket parts, and some of the less expensive stuff is decent and
some is not. Unfortunately without first hand knowledge it is hard to
tell the difference, and even a known-good brand can change suppliers/
mfgrs. at any time. I would try to stick with an established brand
like TRW or Moog and if the parts are purchased from a reputable parts
store (in my mind, that's something like Carquest or NAPA - since my
"good" local chain was assimilated by NAPA a few years ago - not pep
boys or the like) will come with some kind of warranty, although
likely not covering your time or alignments in any case (another good
argument for sticking with known brands.)

nate

I see rockauto.com has Moog but also many other brands as well... are there
any other brands that are just as good or better? In particular, how about
Mevotech, Beck-Arnely, or Raybestos?

>
> but don't replace them unless you have the tools. cheapo coil spring
> compressors are downright dangerous, if you can even get them to fit.
> [most don't since the honda coils are very tight.] and if you scratch the
> spring's surface by mishandling, it'll fatigue and break - with
> potentially very serious results for the car's occupants. you either need
> to take it to a shop with the right type of compressor, make your own
> which doesn't actually touch the spring at all,
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2334362171>
>
> or leave this stuff alone. i suggest the latter.
>
> but if you really want to pay attention to this vehicle, you have the
> skill, and want keep it running well, replace the rear trailing arm
> bushings. part number 52385-S21-003. they're always either cracked, or
> broken, and they dramatically affect the vehicle's handling.
>
> the tool you need is he
>
> <http://www.shoptoolsshoptools.com/shopexd.asp?id=2784>
>
>
> --
> nomina rutrum rutrum

"jim beam" > wrote in message
...
> but don't replace them unless you have the tools. cheapo coil spring
> compressors are downright dangerous, if you can even get them to fit.
> [most don't since the honda coils are very tight.] and if you scratch the
> spring's surface by mishandling, it'll fatigue and break - with
> potentially very serious results for the car's occupants. you either need
> to take it to a shop with the right type of compressor, make your own
> which doesn't actually touch the spring at all,
>
> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2334362171>

So what is the tool bearing on, if not the spring - the outside of the
spring perchs?

Ed

"Chris F." > wrote in message
...
>I see rockauto.com has Moog but also many other brands as well... are there
>any other brands that are just as good or better? In particular, how about
>Mevotech, Beck-Arnely, or Raybestos?

Do some research on specific parts before you buy. Dont buy the cheapest
part on the shelf, unless you KNOW it is superior.

For example, the Dorman replacement plenum for 90's era GM 3800 series
engines was SUPERIOR to the GM crap. GM let its customers buy crap
for about 10 years and did not address their quality problems.

Wagner, Fel-Pro and others are also quality manufacturers.

Some years ago, almost ALL master cylinders on Chrysler cars failed
prematurely. The answer was to buy aftermarket (in this case EIS
seemed to be the best and easiest fix, in cases where they would fit. In
most cases, they fit perfectly, buy in myh 428 Cobra Mustang, they just
would not clear the engine)

Chris F. > wrote:
> I should also mention that all of these components are aftermarket stuff I
>bought online, as OEM was just too expensive.
> I plan to replace both upper arms as a precaution, and use the
>factory-supplied boot covers next time. What I need advice on now, is how to
>prevent this premature failure from happening again.

Don't buy cheap aftermarket stuff online.

> Thanks for any advice.

And don't buy cheap aftermarket stuff from chain stores either.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 03/26/2012 11:40 AM, Chris F. wrote:
> I see rockauto.com has Moog but also many other brands as well... are there
> any other brands that are just as good or better? In particular, how about
> Mevotech, Beck-Arnely, or Raybestos?

beck-arnley maybe, but most of the aftermarkets for a vehicle this age
are made in china. and the cost savings vs. oem are simply not there.
the upper joints aren't available as a separate ball oem [and i think
with good reason], but the oem lowers are considerably cheaper then the
moog's you were looking at, and and oem lowers aren't much more
expensive than the other after-markets if you buy online.

go to tegger.com and check his current list of online honda parts suppliers.


>
>>
>> but don't replace them unless you have the tools. cheapo coil spring
>> compressors are downright dangerous, if you can even get them to fit.
>> [most don't since the honda coils are very tight.] and if you scratch the
>> spring's surface by mishandling, it'll fatigue and break - with
>> potentially very serious results for the car's occupants. you either need
>> to take it to a shop with the right type of compressor, make your own
>> which doesn't actually touch the spring at all,
>>
>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2334362171>
>>
>> or leave this stuff alone. i suggest the latter.
>>
>> but if you really want to pay attention to this vehicle, you have the
>> skill, and want keep it running well, replace the rear trailing arm
>> bushings. part number 52385-S21-003. they're always either cracked, or
>> broken, and they dramatically affect the vehicle's handling.
>>
>> the tool you need is he
>>
>> <http://www.shoptoolsshoptools.com/shopexd.asp?id=2784>
>>
>>
>> --
>> nomina rutrum rutrum
>
>


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/26/2012 12:51 PM, C. E. White wrote:
> "jim > wrote in message
> ...
>> but don't replace them unless you have the tools. cheapo coil spring
>> compressors are downright dangerous, if you can even get them to fit.
>> [most don't since the honda coils are very tight.] and if you scratch the
>> spring's surface by mishandling, it'll fatigue and break - with
>> potentially very serious results for the car's occupants. you either need
>> to take it to a shop with the right type of compressor, make your own
>> which doesn't actually touch the spring at all,
>>
>> <http://www.flickr.com/photos/38636024@N00/2334362171>
>
> So what is the tool bearing on, if not the spring - the outside of the
> spring perchs?
>
> Ed
>
>

yes.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 03/26/2012 01:38 PM, hls wrote:
>
> "Chris F." > wrote in message
> ...
>> I see rockauto.com has Moog but also many other brands as well... are
>> there any other brands that are just as good or better? In particular,
>> how about Mevotech, Beck-Arnely, or Raybestos?
>
> Do some research on specific parts before you buy. Dont buy the cheapest
> part on the shelf, unless you KNOW it is superior.
>
> For example, the Dorman replacement plenum for 90's era GM 3800 series
> engines was SUPERIOR to the GM crap. GM let its customers buy crap
> for about 10 years and did not address their quality problems.
>
> Wagner, Fel-Pro and others are also quality manufacturers.

they're certainly better than the crap found on most domestics. but for
honda, toyota, etc., it's usually worse. in the last two months, i've
done four civic head gaskets, and i used the opportunity to look at
other aftermarket gasket brand quality. fel-pro, while usable, were
notably inferior and missing some of the detail around oil channels that
the oem gaskets have. and paradoxically some of the cheap stuff from
taiwan [not mainland china] was excellent. case by case.


>
> Some years ago, almost ALL master cylinders on Chrysler cars failed
> prematurely. The answer was to buy aftermarket (in this case EIS
> seemed to be the best and easiest fix, in cases where they would fit. In
> most cases, they fit perfectly, buy in myh 428 Cobra Mustang, they just
> would not clear the engine)

for frod, g.m. and chrysler, i'd look at aftermarket before oem every
time. case by case of course, but domestic oem quality is so low, the
aftermarket stuff, even though it may be nothing special, is often superior.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

"hls" > wrote in news:B_ydnW-
:

>
> "Noone" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Isn't Moog aftermarket?
>
> Yes, MOOG would be considered aftermarket, although they may manufacture
> OEM quality materials for manufacturers.
>
> There are very good aftermarket parts, and there are crappy parts. The
> issue is
> to know the difference.
>
> To say that aftermarket is never as good as OEM is just not correct.
>



Such a statement is correct when it comes to the OP's Honda.

There are a bare handful of aftermarket parts for Hondas that even come
close to OE in quality, and balljoints are not among them.

Now if you're talking about GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. (which the OP was
not), then things may be different, and my statement does not cover those.


--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
>>
> Such a statement is correct when it comes to the OP's Honda.
>
> There are a bare handful of aftermarket parts for Hondas that even come
> close to OE in quality, and balljoints are not among them.
>
> Now if you're talking about GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. (which the OP was
> not), then things may be different, and my statement does not cover those.
>
>
> --
> Tegger

Maybe so, Tegger. I bow to your experience on these.
In many cases, the American aftermarket producers are OEM suppliers to the
Big 3. In some cases, the part numbers are even similar.