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E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 28th 08, 04:48 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
holdgaj[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.

Its a E39 528i 50K miles.

Any help appreciated

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  #2  
Old August 28th 08, 05:17 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,481
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !


"holdgaj" > wrote in message
...
>I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
> no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
> garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing".


That's my diagnosis too.

Warped rotors can be felt through the pedal, but they are not always felt
there. They are felt in the steering wheel.

I can't address the difficulty of replacing the bushings, but I've heard
here many times that it is a DIY-kind of job. If you have the ability to
install new rotors, you can do the bushings.

Warped rotors are a result of heat, which is a byproduct of worn brake pads.
The pad material, when thick, does not generate much heat at the surface.
When the pads wear, the heat that normally sinks out of the pad backing
plates does not sink as well, the pad material acts as a heat sink/insulator
when the pads are new, and this characteristic is lost as the pads wear out.

If the pads are close to end life, AND you have to mash the brakes to stop
short from a relatively high speed, then the heat generated can warp the
rotors. If the pads are new under the same conditions, the rotors will
survive the ordeal and work well for the next stop. When the pads are worn,
the next stop can be shakey.

The suspension parts (bushings) will generally load up under braking, and
remain under the constant load until you stop. This means that the worn
bushings can cause noises when going over speed bumps or on rough roads,
where the suspension parts move around, or they can cause the car to pull to
one side as the geometry changes under braking. Suspension parts (bushings)
do not generally cause shaking under braking. You may need bushings, this is
common, but I'm not sure that shaking is the first sign. Indeed, worn
bushings can make the effects of warped rotors even worse, but if the rotors
are in good shape, you ought not notice worn bushings during braking.

You should be able to replace both rotors and all four pads -- always
replace brake parts in Axle Sets, never peice-meal brake service -- for
about $100-ish in parts.




On reading the Brake
> FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
> stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
> thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
> the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
> the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
> would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
> interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
> bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.
>
> Its a E39 528i 50K miles.
>
> Any help appreciated
>


  #3  
Old August 28th 08, 07:01 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
cosmo[_20_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:48:53 -0700 (PDT), holdgaj
> wrote:

>I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
>no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
>garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
>FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
>stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
>thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
>the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
>the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
>would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
>interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
>bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.
>
>Its a E39 528i 50K miles.
>
>Any help appreciated


This is general information. I don't know jack about BMWs. On my chevy
van you can feel warped rotors through the brake pedal but not through
the steering wheel and only while braking lightly when coming very
slowly to a stop. There's kind of a side-to-side "swims like a fish"
wobble feeling the last 5 feet before the van stops. The disks can be
turned for $25 each where I live.
A sophisticated car like yours should warn you well before brake parts
start overheating to the point they warp the rotors is my guess. Even
my '88 325 has a dash light that tells you if the pads need replacing.
This kind of heat happens when the calipers are stuck closed from rust
on the slides maybe. Also, filthy brake fluid can have rust in it
which plugs up the return line so the calipers stay partially on. That
makes the brakes drag and then they heat up the rotors. This should be
obvious when you tear down to replace or turn the rotors. Good luck
and happy motoring.
  #4  
Old August 28th 08, 07:12 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,813
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

holdgaj > wrote:
>I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
>no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
>garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
>FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
>stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
>thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
>the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
>the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
>would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
>interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
>bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.
>
>Its a E39 528i 50K miles.


Your rotors are bad, yes. Change them; it's an easy job and not too
expensive to do.

When did you last do a brake job? At 50k, you should be coming up ready
for a whole pile of preventative maintenance.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #5  
Old August 28th 08, 11:58 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Dave Plowman (News)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,533
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

In article
>,
holdgaj > wrote:
> I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
> no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
> garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
> FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
> stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
> thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
> the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
> the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
> would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
> interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
> bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.


It is very likely the control arm bushes if the vehicle has done more than
about 70,000 miles and they are original. Unfortunately, as they're fluid
filled, it's difficult to tell if there are worn by levering etc as they
have some 'give' when perfect.

They can be replaced with the correct workshop equipment, but few will
have this so just replace the entire arm.

IMHO it's far more likely to be the cause than warped discs. Even although
most mechanics who don't know this model will diagnose that.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #6  
Old August 29th 08, 03:28 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
holdgaj[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

On 28 Aug, 20:12, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> holdgaj > wrote:
> >I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
> >no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
> >garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
> >FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
> >stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
> >thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
> >the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
> >the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
> >would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
> >interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) *of replacing the suspension
> >bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.

>
> >Its a E39 528i 50K miles.

>
> Your rotors are bad, yes. *Change them; it's an easy job and not too
> expensive to do.
>
> When did you last do a brake job? *At 50k, you should be coming up ready
> for a whole pile of preventative maintenance.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Could you give me an idea of exactly what preventitive maintainance I
should be doing - as mentioned above, I might as well have the garage
do it at thye same time they do the rotors ...
  #7  
Old August 29th 08, 03:30 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
holdgaj[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

On 29 Aug, 00:58, "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote:
> In article
> >,
> * *holdgaj > wrote:
>
> > I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
> > no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
> > garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
> > FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
> > stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
> > thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
> > the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
> > the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
> > would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
> > interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) *of replacing the suspension
> > bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.

>
> It is very likely the control arm bushes if the vehicle has done more than
> about 70,000 miles and they are original. Unfortunately, as they're fluid
> filled, it's difficult to tell if there are worn by levering etc as they
> have some 'give' when perfect.
>
> They can be replaced with the correct workshop equipment, but few will
> have this so just replace the entire arm.
>
> IMHO it's far more likely to be the cause than warped discs. Even although
> most mechanics who don't know this model will diagnose that.
>
> --
> *The statement below is true. *
>
> * * Dave Plowman * * * * * * * * London SW
> * * * * * * * * * To e-mail, change noise into sound.


Any idea what this might cost (replacement of the bushes ) I just had
a quoute of 800Euro for the job ... Seems like a lot ...
  #8  
Old August 29th 08, 09:06 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,813
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

holdgaj > wrote:
>
>Could you give me an idea of exactly what preventitive maintainance I
>should be doing - as mentioned above, I might as well have the garage
>do it at thye same time they do the rotors ...


Well, at 50K you should be doing brake fluid, transmission fluid,
differential fluid. Probably the usual filter change too (and that
includes the fuel filter), and maybe a coolant flush.

The point about loose bushings causing similar vibration problems is a
good one, and you should definitely have a mechanic go over your front
end. If the bushings are loose, the brake rotors will get worn unevenly
too, so just because you find the bushings are bad doesn't mean you can
ignore the brakes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #9  
Old August 29th 08, 09:15 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,481
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !


"holdgaj" > wrote in message
...
>I have vibration of the sterring wheel on braking on an E39. There's
> no vibrattion through the brake pedal. Just had a diagnosis from a
> garage - "brake discs (rotors) need replacing". On reading the Brake
> FAQ I see that worn suspension bushes can cause vibration of the
> stereing wheel. The vibration is worse at higher speeds. I would have
> thought that warped rotors would be felt through the pedal as well as
> the steerrng wheel. I'm on a tight budget, and don't want to replace
> the brake discs unecessarily. Can someone confirm that warped rotors
> would be felt through the brake pedal ? Or not ? I'd also be
> interested in the difficulty (i.e. cost) of replacing the suspension
> bushes *& which ones need to be replaced.
>
> Its a E39 528i 50K miles.
>
> Any help appreciated
>


If your car has only 50k miles, you should be consulting the Owner's Manual
for the recommended service. My recollection is the 50k service is mostly
fluid level checks.

Depending on your driving habits, the front brakes are toast, and are
screaming for replacement.

I seriously doubt the suspension bushings are playing into your shaking.








  #10  
Old August 29th 08, 11:57 PM posted to alt.autos.bmw
Dave Plowman (News)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,533
Default E39 Vibration on Braking - help please !

In article >,
Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> >Could you give me an idea of exactly what preventitive maintainance I
> >should be doing - as mentioned above, I might as well have the garage
> >do it at thye same time they do the rotors ...


> Well, at 50K you should be doing brake fluid, transmission fluid,
> differential fluid. Probably the usual filter change too (and that
> includes the fuel filter), and maybe a coolant flush.


Brake fluid and coolant changes are part of routine servicing.

--
*A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
 




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