1990 Olds Stalls/Bogs on acceleration

This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of
nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the
next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out
of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so
far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did
it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it
still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it
never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the
ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car
that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel
pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I
swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it
was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I
tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a
vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem
like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb
cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp
and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put
the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should
also.... I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both
stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs
and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really
don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is
this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is
really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens
at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate
and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but
will run fine if it is just idling

Looks like you changed/tested everything, except one of the first
things you shoulda done. Change the fuel filter.

On Sep 4, 12:12*am, wrote:
> This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of
> nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the
> next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out
> of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so
> far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did
> it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it
> still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it
> never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the
> ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car
> that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel
> pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I
> swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it
> was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I
> tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a
> vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem
> like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb
> cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp
> and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put
> the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should
> also.... * I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both
> stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs
> and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really
> don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is
> this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is
> really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens
> at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate
> and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but
> will run fine if it is just idling

I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would
run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red
light, it would bog and stall.. It would re-start and run fine..

I never did find the problem...

At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem..
I replaced it and that did not fix it...

Let us know if you figure it out...

Mark

On Sep 4, 10:03*am, Mark > wrote:
> On Sep 4, 12:12*am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of
> > nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the
> > next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out
> > of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so
> > far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did
> > it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it
> > still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it
> > never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the
> > ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car
> > that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel
> > pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I
> > swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it
> > was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I
> > tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a
> > vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem
> > like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb
> > cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp
> > and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put
> > the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should
> > also.... * I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both
> > stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs
> > and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really
> > don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is
> > this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is
> > really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens
> > at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate
> > and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but
> > will run fine if it is just idling
>
> I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would
> run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red
> light, it would bog and stall.. * *It would re-start and run fine..
>
> I never did find the problem...
>
> At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem..
> I replaced it and that did not fix it...
>
> Let us know if you figure it out...
>
> Mark- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a
row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so
before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never
happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit
idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen...

very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the
car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what...

to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter
problem...

please let us know if you ever figure it out

On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 07:10:32 -0700 (PDT), Mark >
wrote:


>> I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would
>> run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red
>> light, it would bog and stall.. ? ?It would re-start and run fine..
>>
>> I never did find the problem...
>>
>> At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem..
>> I replaced it and that did not fix it...
>>
>> Let us know if you figure it out...
>>
>> Mark- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a
>row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so
>before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never
>happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit
>idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen...
>
>very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the
>car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what...
>
>to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter
>problem...
>
>please let us know if you ever figure it out
>
Think the 4's had throttle body, but my '88 Celebrity 2.8 with
MFI had similar symptoms. Stalled leaving a stop light, but not
always. Progressed a couple weeks later to stumbling while
accelerating, but not always.
My mechanic replaced 2 injectors and that fixed it.

--Vic

Mark wrote:
>
> On Sep 4, 10:03 am, Mark > wrote:
> > On Sep 4, 12:12 am, wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > This car is a 3.1 v6 it runs ok most of the time. But randomly out of
> > > nowhere it will bog and stall when you push the gas pedal. Then the
> > > next minute it will be fine and drive like that for awhile. Then out
> > > of nowhere the stalling and bogging happens again. What i have done so
> > > far is unhooked the exhaust thinking it was plugged, and it still did
> > > it. I unhooked and plugged the manifold where the EGR valve was and it
> > > still did it. I also sprayed carb cleaner in all 3 pintles and it
> > > never leaked into the center of the EGR valve.... I changed the
> > > ignition module and coil packs with known good ones from another car
> > > that was working fine. And it still did it. I then watched the fuel
> > > pressure while it was bogging and it held steady around 40 psi.... I
> > > swapped the map, and iac valve for the ones in the other car and it
> > > was the same.... I put the car in neutral and it still bogged..... I
> > > tried the injectors from the other car and it still did it.... I put a
> > > vacuum gauge on it and it has about 18 on the gauge so it doesn't seem
> > > like a vacuum leak. I also sprayed around looking for leaks with carb
> > > cleaner and found none just in case. I tested the tps, coolant temp
> > > and air temp sensors and they all worked as they should. I also put
> > > the crank sensor on my meter and it worked the way it should
> > > also.... I checked voltage at the battery and alternator and both
> > > stayed around 14v while accelerating.... I checked all the spark plugs
> > > and they are gapped properly and don't look wet or lean.... I really
> > > don't know what else to check for. Did i miss anything to look for? Is
> > > this a common problem with a fix that is know for this car? It is
> > > really un drivable at the moment because the stalling always happens
> > > at intersections after being stopped at a light. you go to accelerate
> > > and it will die, restarts fine then dies when you try to go.... but
> > > will run fine if it is just idling
> >
> > I had an 89 Celbrity with 4 cyl engine had the same symptom...it would
> > run fine but once in a while when you step on the gas after a red
> > light, it would bog and stall.. It would re-start and run fine..
> >
> > I never did find the problem...
> >
> > At one point I was thinking maybe a throttle position sensor problem..
> > I replaced it and that did not fix it...
> >
> > Let us know if you figure it out...
> >
> > Mark- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I forgot to add , in my case it seems it would never happen twice in a
> row..you had to be stopped and idling at a light for a minute or so
> before it would happen.. just a quick stop and it would never
> happen, and it would never happen after a re-start, you had to sit
> idling in drive for a minute or two before it would happen...

No trouble codes?

there are 3 possibilities. Too much fuel - too little fuel - not enough spark.
It would help if you figured out which. Your description suggests not enough
fuel as the most likely.

Doesn't this engine have a vacuum controlled pressure regulator that controls
fuel pressure to the rail? If so the pressure should drop when idling and
increase when you step on the gas. The vacuum hose to the regulator can
collapses after idling for a while and that might cause the symptoms. Or I
suppose the regulator could just be sticky, but those are just wild guesses
based on the assumption it is not getting enough gas which could be wrong.

-jim



>
> very tough to troubleshoot... you would really need to instrument the
> car to determine if it was a spark or fuel problem or what...
>
> to the other poster, i don't see how this could be a fuel filter
> problem...
>
> please let us know if you ever figure it out


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thanks for the replys, I forgot to add I did also change the fuel
filter... it was actually the first thing i did. And it did nothing.
When i check the fuel pressure it reads high 30s at idle and when i
step on the gas it does increase. It seems like it is not getting
enough fuel to me, when it starts to bog if i spray a little carb
cleaner in the hole for the air dam it picks it back up instead of
killing it like it normally would. But my pressure looks good and I
tried injectors out of another car that has been working just fine...
So i don't know how it would not get enough fuel?

wrote:
>
> thanks for the replys, I forgot to add I did also change the fuel
> filter... it was actually the first thing i did. And it did nothing.
> When i check the fuel pressure it reads high 30s at idle and when i
> step on the gas it does increase. It seems like it is not getting
> enough fuel to me, when it starts to bog if i spray a little carb
> cleaner in the hole for the air dam it picks it back up instead of
> killing it like it normally would.

Good test. And was your fuel pressure test also while the problem was occurring?
I mean one would expect all tests to tell you nothing when the problem isn't
there. If you are testing the right function when the problem occurs you should
see what it is.
The MAP sensor would have a vacuum signal also that could be faulty due to bad
tubing. Throttle position can have dirty electrical connections. You said you
changed that right?

-jim



> I won't make the
> same mistake again
>

>But my pressure looks good and I
> tried injectors out of another car that has been working just fine...
> So i don't know how it would not get enough fuel?


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On Sep 4, 12:05*pm, wrote:
> thanks for the replys, I forgot to add I did also change the fuel
> filter... it was actually the first thing i did. And it did nothing.
> When i check the fuel pressure it reads high 30s at idle and when i
> step on the gas it does increase. It seems like it is not getting
> enough fuel to me, when it starts to bog if i spray a little carb
> cleaner in the hole for the air dam it picks it back up instead of
> killing it like it normally would. But my pressure looks good and I
> tried injectors out of another car that has been working just fine...
> So i don't know how it would not get enough fuel?

if you can get the problem to happen in the garage while you are
troubleshooting it, then you may have a chance. Mine would only
happen when i was actually driving it...

So if the problem is a lack of fuel problem and you have changed the
injector(s) and the fuel supply pressure is good,.... can you monitor
the electrical signals feeding to the injectors with an o'scope if you
can or at least a voltmeter. If the voltage (or pulse width
actually) drops or does not increase when it should, then we know the
computer is not telling the injector to inject more gas for some
reason when it should be when you step on the gas...

i.e.

is the computer not telling the injector to spray more gas?

or

is the computer telling the injector to spray more, but the injector
does not or cannot obey?

Mark

ok all good stuff.... and I was checking the fuel pressure while it
was having the bogging issue. The problem is random and only happens
some of the time, but it will happen with the car parked or me driving
it. I would by hand move the throttle linkage with the gauge attached
and watch the gauge. As the car started to bog the pressure would
actually stay the same or climb it would never drop.... Is it possible
for the pressure to be at spec but still have too low volume? As far
as the map sensor and tps sensor, the map sensor i replaced with a
known good one and did not change. I hooked my meter up to it and it
read correctly, with and without me jiggling the wires around and
tugging on them. the tps sensor pretty much the same deal except i
didn't put on another sensor, i just test it similar to the map. It
shows smooth operation from closed to wot. Does anyone know where the
ecm is at on this beast, I want to check the wires going directly into
it?