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#1
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 8:40:43 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 00:46:35 -0800 (PST), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most > Humble Philosopher" > wrote: > > >On Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:56:05 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote: > >> In every country in the world, the first thing people want as they > >> come up out of the mud is personal transportation. Even in China, > >> with cities far bigger then most, and with plenty of public > >> transportation of one sort or another, the people still hunger for > >> personal transportation. > > > >Right, and because of it they are choking in pollution and the world is looking into the abyss of irreversible climate change. > > > >And they are sitting in endless traffic jams as well, so they are not getting fast anywhere. > > > So? What's it to you? It's their choice, why do you keep suggesting > you know better how they should live then they do? Maybe you'd like > to tell us all what size house we should be allowed and what kind of > food we should be allowed to eat. Clearly they like cars, with all > the attendant problems, over mass transit. Even in a > quasi-dictatorship you see this over and over. People want the > freedom of a car. It's only in a few places that have become rats > nests, like NYC where many are forced to give up that dream and SETTLE > for impersonal transportation. Even in NYC people who can will pay > ungodly sums of money to have a car. Funny, you want to enjoy the "freedom" to drive a car while denying a place to public transportation, trains and bicycles. You need to be serious about them because the car has no future. |
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#2
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-02 22:59:52 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic Enterprises said:
> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 8:40:43 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote: >> On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 00:46:35 -0800 (PST), "Wise TibetanMonkey, Most >> Humble Philosopher" > wrote: >> >>> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 2:56:05 PM UTC-5, Ashton Crusher wrote: >>>> In every country in the world, the first thing people want as they >>>> come up out of the mud is personal transportation. Even in China, >>>> with cities far bigger then most, and with plenty of public >>>> transportation of one sort or another, the people still hunger for >>>> personal transportation. >>> >>> Right, and because of it they are choking in pollution and the world is >>> looking into the abyss of irreversible climate change. >>> >>> And they are sitting in endless traffic jams as well, so they are not >>> getting fast anywhere. >> >> >> So? What's it to you? It's their choice, why do you keep suggesting >> you know better how they should live then they do? Maybe you'd like >> to tell us all what size house we should be allowed and what kind of >> food we should be allowed to eat. Clearly they like cars, with all >> the attendant problems, over mass transit. Even in a >> quasi-dictatorship you see this over and over. People want the >> freedom of a car. It's only in a few places that have become rats >> nests, like NYC where many are forced to give up that dream and SETTLE >> for impersonal transportation. Even in NYC people who can will pay >> ungodly sums of money to have a car. > > Funny, you want to enjoy the "freedom" to drive a car while denying a > place to public transportation, trains and bicycles. Really? Where did he say that? Personally, what I'd like is for those other modes of transportation to pay their own way. > > You need to be serious about them because the car has no future. The car has a bright future. The car is working for the vast majority of people in North America. How do we know this? Because they continue to choose it. |
#3
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-03 15:09:12 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
>>>> The car has a bright future. The car is working for the vast majority >>>> of people in North America. >>> >>> Oh no, the working class is struggling to eat because of the car. How >>> many kids can you feed when you own a car? Not many. Unless you live on >>> welfare. >> >> What a load of unsupported bull****. > > Place yourself in their shoes and imagine they hit you with a silly red > light ticket that costs you 160 bucks. Hmmmm.... Don't go through red lights. That works for me. >> >>> >>> DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ON WELFARE SHOULD OWN A CAR? >> >> Strawman > > Just give me the answer. Maybe they need from the car. Then if they need own they should own one. It's still a strawman. > > Not all people must drive. As is this. I never said that everyone must. >> >>>> >>>> How do we know this? Because they continue to choose it. >>> >>> Or perhaps because they have no choice. People in NYC pass on the car. >>> They live longer than other Americans. Perhaps they eat better by not >>> having a car. >> >> I can just make things up too, you know... > > Well, if it is COMMON SENSE, yes. Good of you to admit you made it up though. >> >>> >>> FREEDOM FROM THE CAR IS FREEDOM TOO. >> >> Nope. > > Freedom from the car means freedom from the payments and the tickets. > Don't forget the tickets. You have been targeted for predation. I've had perhaps two tickets in the last 10 years... ....and I drive fast. So how am I being preyed upon? And unless you're advocating a public transportation system that can take me everywhere I want to go as quickly as I need to get there, it won't eliminate the car and its expenses for most people... ....simply add to those expenses. |
#4
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most > Humble Philosopher wrote: >> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism >> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non >> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly >> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast >> trains as well. What's next? >> >> "Carmageddon!" > > I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because > we often are both cyclists and drivers. > > Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the > one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you > should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going > on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. > You don't know about corruption. More completely bull****. > > Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we > don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for > deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. I KNOW you receive free facilities. Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? > > We want a traffic lane. That means "taking the lane" in the bike > culture. You want us to pay for it? OK, how about 30 bucks a year for > the "license." Oh don't worry, we are not going to let loose any monkey > on the road. Anyways the true idiots are driving already. And we don't > want them next to us. We want next to us scooters and slow vehicles. Oh > yes, those Neighborhood Electric Vehicles are cute and friendly. And if that $30 a year can't pay for all the lanes you want? Where will they come from? > > Time to go driving now. |
#5
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-04 02:08:11 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:33:25 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >> On 2015-01-03 15:09:12 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >> >>>>>> The car has a bright future. The car is working for the vast majority >>>>>> of people in North America. >>>>> >>>>> Oh no, the working class is struggling to eat because of the car. How >>>>> many kids can you feed when you own a car? Not many. Unless you live on >>>>> welfare. >>>> >>>> What a load of unsupported bull****. >>> >>> Place yourself in their shoes and imagine they hit you with a silly red >>> light ticket that costs you 160 bucks. >> >> Hmmmm.... >> >> Don't go through red lights. > > It's NOT going through red lights. It's passing a line or failing to > stop when turning right. That's a bad habit we could eradicate without > being swallowed whole. We could learn by being issued a $50 ticket. > They just go for the jugular. It IS going through a red light. Period. If you stop behind that line: no problem. If you stop when turning right: no problem. >> >> That works for me. >> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> DO YOU THINK PEOPLE ON WELFARE SHOULD OWN A CAR? >>>> >>>> Strawman >>> >>> Just give me the answer. Maybe they need from the car. >> >> Then if they need own they should own one. >> >> It's still a strawman. >> >>> >>> Not all people must drive. >> >> As is this. I never said that everyone must. >> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> How do we know this? Because they continue to choose it. >>>>> >>>>> Or perhaps because they have no choice. People in NYC pass on the car. >>>>> They live longer than other Americans. Perhaps they eat better by not >>>>> having a car. >>>> >>>> I can just make things up too, you know... >>> >>> Well, if it is COMMON SENSE, yes. >> >> Good of you to admit you made it up though. > > Well, am I making up that more people and more cars mean more traffic > jams? You need a study for that or is it commonsense? You are making up that people in NYC live longer by not having a car. I'll put it more simply so that you can understand: You are LYING. >> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> FREEDOM FROM THE CAR IS FREEDOM TOO. >>>> >>>> Nope. >>> >>> Freedom from the car means freedom from the payments and the tickets. >>> Don't forget the tickets. You have been targeted for predation. >> >> I've had perhaps two tickets in the last 10 years... >> >> ...and I drive fast. >> >> So how am I being preyed upon? > > Tickets, tickets, tickets. Also towing, parking fees, tolls... Nope. Sorry, but I don't get "tickets, tickets, tickets", and any time I've been towed, it's been my fault. > > They just doubled the tolls around here. No escape. >> >> >> And unless you're advocating a public transportation system that can >> take me everywhere I want to go as quickly as I need to get there, it >> won't eliminate the car and its expenses for most people... >> >> ...simply add to those expenses. > > Actually public transportation is a good option for those who are not > such good drivers. It would make your driving more fun and pleasurable. It might be a good option... ....if it didn't require drivers to subsidize it. |
#6
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-04 02:10:29 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >> >>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most >>> Humble Philosopher wrote: >>>> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism >>>> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non >>>> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly >>>> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast >>>> trains as well. What's next? >>>> >>>> "Carmageddon!" >>> >>> I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because >>> we often are both cyclists and drivers. >>> >>> Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the >>> one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you >>> should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going >>> on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. >>> You don't know about corruption. >> >> More completely bull****. >> >>> >>> Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we >>> don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for >>> deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. >> >> I KNOW you receive free facilities. >> >> Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? >> >>> >>> We want a traffic lane. That means "taking the lane" in the bike >>> culture. You want us to pay for it? OK, how about 30 bucks a year for >>> the "license." Oh don't worry, we are not going to let loose any monkey >>> on the road. Anyways the true idiots are driving already. And we don't >>> want them next to us. We want next to us scooters and slow vehicles. Oh >>> yes, those Neighborhood Electric Vehicles are cute and friendly. >> >> And if that $30 a year can't pay for all the lanes you want? Where will >> they come from? > > I don't want bike lanes. I want the right lane be prioritized for slow > vehicles. > > We can pay as well, but don't terrorize us. Cyclists AREN'T paying. Neither are public transit users. Car drivers are paying. |
#7
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-04 14:42:22 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said:
> On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:32:48 AM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >> On 2015-01-04 07:27:01 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >> >>> On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:09:11 AM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >>>> On 2015-01-04 02:10:29 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >>>> >>>>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >>>>>> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most >>>>>>> Humble Philosopher wrote: >>>>>>>> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism >>>>>>>> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non >>>>>>>> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly >>>>>>>> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast >>>>>>>> trains as well. What's next? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Carmageddon!" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because >>>>>>> we often are both cyclists and drivers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the >>>>>>> one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you >>>>>>> should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going >>>>>>> on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. >>>>>>> You don't know about corruption. >>>>>> >>>>>> More completely bull****. >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we >>>>>>> don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for >>>>>>> deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. >>>>>> >>>>>> I KNOW you receive free facilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We want a traffic lane. That means "taking the lane" in the bike >>>>>>> culture. You want us to pay for it? OK, how about 30 bucks a year for >>>>>>> the "license." Oh don't worry, we are not going to let loose any monkey >>>>>>> on the road. Anyways the true idiots are driving already. And we don't >>>>>>> want them next to us. We want next to us scooters and slow vehicles. Oh >>>>>>> yes, those Neighborhood Electric Vehicles are cute and friendly. >>>>>> >>>>>> And if that $30 a year can't pay for all the lanes you want? Where will >>>>>> they come from? >>>>> >>>>> I don't want bike lanes. I want the right lane be prioritized for slow >>>>> vehicles. >>>>> >>>>> We can pay as well, but don't terrorize us. >>>> >>>> Cyclists AREN'T paying. >>>> >>>> Neither are public transit users. >>>> >>>> Car drivers are paying. >>> >>> You are not even paying for the environmental damage you cause. >> >> Maybe... >> >> Show me the math. >> >> What I know is that public transit as it is today depends on there >> being enough drivers in cars to pay for it. > > Do you think the public transit of NYC is paid by drivers as well? I know it is. They take in only 52% of their operating costs from fares. > It's only in the suburbs where public transportation struggles. The > sprawl was built around the car and there lies the problem. But now we > are talking about solutions, right? You're mostly talking fantasies. >> >>> >>> People in Norway and the Netherlands pay their fair share for gas, that >>> is twice as much as you do. >> >> And where have I said I'd object to paying that much? > > Sure but first we need to take care of corruption. No matter how much > money you throw into the system, it will find its way into the black > hole of corruption. Assumes facts you've not proven. In other words, more bull****. |
#8
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: > > > On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most > > Humble Philosopher wrote: > >> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism > >> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non > >> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly > >> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast > >> trains as well. What's next? > >> > >> "Carmageddon!" > > > > I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because > > we often are both cyclists and drivers. > > > > Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the > > one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you > > should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going > > on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. > > You don't know about corruption. > > More completely bull****. > > > > > Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we > > don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for > > deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. > > I KNOW you receive free facilities. > > Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? "Eliminate car use?" I tell you drivers tend to be radical. I want to retire the bad drivers so the other forms of transportation as well as the good drivers can enjoy more room. |
#9
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On 2015-01-04 22:43:11 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic Enterprises said:
> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: >> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: >> >>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most >>> Humble Philosopher wrote: >>>> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism >>>> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non >>>> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly >>>> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast >>>> trains as well. What's next? >>>> >>>> "Carmageddon!" >>> >>> I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because >>> we often are both cyclists and drivers. >>> >>> Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the >>> one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you >>> should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going >>> on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. >>> You don't know about corruption. >> >> More completely bull****. >> >>> >>> Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we >>> don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for >>> deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. >> >> I KNOW you receive free facilities. >> >> Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? > > "Eliminate car use?" > > I tell you drivers tend to be radical. I want to retire the bad drivers > so the other forms of transportation as well as the good drivers can > enjoy more room. I want to require all drivers to be good drivers... ...or lose their right to drive. |
#10
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Myth: The motor car is the ultimate freedom machine
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 5:46:14 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2015-01-04 22:43:11 +0000, Free Spirit, Chief of Quixotic Enterprises said: > > > On Saturday, January 3, 2015 1:35:08 PM UTC-5, Alan Baker wrote: > >> On 2015-01-03 17:19:34 +0000, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher said: > >> > >>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 9:23:54 AM UTC-5, Wise TibetanMonkey, Most > >>> Humble Philosopher wrote: > >>>> You drivers are placing the noose around your own neck. Your radicalism > >>>> doesn't even tolerate the bicycle. The bicycle infrastructure is non > >>>> existent or dysfunctional. Public transportation is highly > >>>> dysfunctional too. You oppose trains in the city. You oppose fast > >>>> trains as well. What's next? > >>>> > >>>> "Carmageddon!" > >>> > >>> I don't think we should turn this into a class struggle issue because > >>> we often are both cyclists and drivers. > >>> > >>> Naturally the bicycle is the most democratic vehicle of the two and the > >>> one that keeps you in touch with your community. I don't think you > >>> should even vote if you don't ride a bike. You don't know what's going > >>> on. You don't know about crime. You don't know about broken sidewalks. > >>> You don't know about corruption. > >> > >> More completely bull****. > >> > >>> > >>> Everything is dysfunctional. You think we want free facilities. No, we > >>> don't want any of that. Bike lanes don't work, not connected, used for > >>> deliveries. They become another excuse for corruption. > >> > >> I KNOW you receive free facilities. > >> > >> Who will pay for those if you actually eliminate car use? > > > > "Eliminate car use?" > > > > I tell you drivers tend to be radical. I want to retire the bad drivers > > so the other forms of transportation as well as the good drivers can > > enjoy more room. > > I want to require all drivers to be good drivers... ...or lose their > right to drive. Well, we need those SPEED CAMERAS to start separating the good drivers from the bad drivers. Hint: Good drivers don't go speeding on city streets. They should have a working passing lane on freeways. |
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