Largest Chevrolet Dealer Group CLosing Doors

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...

>> Ford and GM cars into the 90's were still ****!!!!! The cars of 2008
>>are not as bad as they were a decade ago, but the foreign cars (some of
>>them) are still MUCH better than American cars.

> that's total BS. Look at the JD Powers numbers, there is barely any
> difference at all between they typical import and domestic.

I did, and that's when I bought the Honda.

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
...

>> But other cars had similar problems. One of our district managers in
>> New
>>York had to make a "panic stop" and both front fenders and the hood slid
>>off.
>
> Hey, later I'll tell you about time me and my Chevy were wrestling and
> he got me in a hammerlock.

Well, wish I were there, that's one time I would have been rooting for
the Chevy to win/

<adventuremyk> wrote in message
...

>> But other cars had similar problems. One of our district managers in
>> New
>>York had to make a "panic stop" and both front fenders and the hood slid
>>off. Seems somebody neglected to put in a few bolts.

> It takes a lot more than 'a few bolts' for something like this to
> happen.

Really? How is the front clip held on in a 65 Ford Galaxie?

<adventuremyk> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 16:20:14 GMT, " krp" > wrote:
>
>>> He can't seem to do anything more than flail at the wind while telling
>>> people how stupid they are,
>>
>>Tell me when your mother discovered your brain damage?
>
> Thank you for making my point.


No your mother did that when she kept dropping you on your head.

<adventuremyk> wrote in message
...
> There is a mediocre debate currently running called Why GM and Ford
> are having problems? Working along the idea of that thread I figured I
> wuold take a few minutes to look at a reason or two.
>
> The biggest reason is going to be customer perception. After all,
> perception is reality to the person who is looking.
>
> Taking this into account I went to Edmunds.com and put in the same
> info for 4 each of a lines entry cars and midsize sedans. All info is
> left basic with the following attributes.
>
> All are 2003 models
> All are listed as silver (base paint)
> All are automatics
> I used 50,000 miles (10k a year)
> I used Average as a modifier though I could have used clean. I figure
> most cars will be average after 5 years of normal use/wear &
> tear/cleaning. Keep in mind, average does not reflect the car
> enthusiast likely to be in here.
>
> All prices are Average Dealer Retail.
>
> The original MSRP of each car, while not listed, was very close among
> the brands. IE: the upper level Civic EX (not high performance Si but
> the more common EX) had an MSRP of about $16k which was similar for
> the Focus, Corolla SE, and Cavalier when each had similar equipment on
> it. This was just a rough compilation and it should only be taken as
> such. I did not add any options save for an automatic transmission.
> For the sedans I chose the V6 model of each as a representative group.
> I couldnt' care less about rebates and incentives, only MSRP. If they
> have to use the rebates and incentives it simply says they are not
> competitive on the price point they want to play at.
>
> ***ONCE AGAIN*** I will stress that this is a base-line test and no, I
> didn't take the time to dial in every single little option or detail
> to make it perfect. This is a broad group that is representative of
> the average for-sale car.
>
> Here are the results:
>
> Entry level sedan/4-door:
> Honda Civic EX $9,650
> Toyota Corolla SE $8,372
> Chevy Cavalier LS $5,510
> Ford Focus SE $5,736
>
> Midsize Standard sedans/4door:
> Honda Accord EX V6 $12,766
> Toyota Camry SE V6 $11,046
> Chevy Malibu $5,964
> Ford Taurus SES $5,964
>
> Odd that the Taurus SES and Malibu were both listed as the same price.
> In all cases the 'domestics' are roughly half (50-65%) the value of
> the imports over a given period of 5 years.

Why are the American cars worth so much less? Because of ME? Because they
are really GOOD cars? Or maybe because even most Americans know **** when
they smell it?

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
news:48e272d8$1@kcnews01...

>> There is a mediocre debate currently running called Why GM and Ford
>> are having problems? Working along the idea of that thread I figured I
>> wuold take a few minutes to look at a reason or two.
>>
>> The biggest reason is going to be customer perception. After all,
>> perception is reality to the person who is looking.
>>
>> Taking this into account I went to Edmunds.com and put in the same
>> info for 4 each of a lines entry cars and midsize sedans. All info is
>> left basic with the following attributes.
>>
>> All are 2003 models
>> All are listed as silver (base paint)
>> All are automatics
>> I used 50,000 miles (10k a year)
>> I used Average as a modifier though I could have used clean. I figure
>> most cars will be average after 5 years of normal use/wear &
>> tear/cleaning. Keep in mind, average does not reflect the car
>> enthusiast likely to be in here.
>>
>> All prices are Average Dealer Retail.
>>
>> The original MSRP of each car, while not listed, was very close among
>> the brands. IE: the upper level Civic EX (not high performance Si but
>> the more common EX) had an MSRP of about $16k which was similar for
>> the Focus, Corolla SE, and Cavalier when each had similar equipment on
>> it. This was just a rough compilation and it should only be taken as
>> such. I did not add any options save for an automatic transmission.
>> For the sedans I chose the V6 model of each as a representative group.
>> I couldnt' care less about rebates and incentives, only MSRP. If they
>> have to use the rebates and incentives it simply says they are not
>> competitive on the price point they want to play at.
>>
>> ***ONCE AGAIN*** I will stress that this is a base-line test and no, I
>> didn't take the time to dial in every single little option or detail
>> to make it perfect. This is a broad group that is representative of
>> the average for-sale car.
>>
>> Here are the results:
>>
>> Entry level sedan/4-door:
>> Honda Civic EX $9,650
>> Toyota Corolla SE $8,372
>> Chevy Cavalier LS $5,510
>> Ford Focus SE $5,736
>>
>> Midsize Standard sedans/4door:
>> Honda Accord EX V6 $12,766
>> Toyota Camry SE V6 $11,046
>> Chevy Malibu $5,964
>> Ford Taurus SES $5,964
>>
>> Odd that the Taurus SES and Malibu were both listed as the same price.
>> In all cases the 'domestics' are roughly half (50-65%) the value of
>> the imports over a given period of 5 years. That would be one of the
>> resons these companies are having a hard time. In order to be
>> competitive they are having to give away a lot of incentives and
>> rebates simply to unbury their previous customers. To make matters
>> worse, they destroyed anyone who recently bought a car when they
>> started doing the Employee Pricing gimmick. What that means is that
>> anyone who bought a car for anything near a normal price is now
>> HAMMERED in the cars they bought and, without a significant amount of
>> cash to bail themselves out, are now stuck with them.
>>
>> Yes, when you kill your own customers it's hard to get repeat
>> business. It's harder, still, to attract new business.
>
> I have a few problems with your methodology. 1) You are basing the initial
> costs on MSRP. It has been my experience that I can usually buy domestic
> for thousands under MSRP, while Toyotas and Honda often actually sell for
> more than MSRP

BULL****!'

> wrote in message ...
>
>>
>>I have a few problems with your methodology.
>
>
> I like this unbiased methodology. It's simply done, easy to
> understand and shows logic. The cars chosen were not new but 2003 and
> your sister didn't buy/sell one. And it's correctly prepared with
> take it with a grain of salt warnings.
>
>
> You seem to have problems with everything ever written in this news
> group. What is it that you are so afraid of? Does your mommy know
> you whine in this news group? You are coming across as a little boy
> no experience turnip from small town nowhere. Think big and see a
> bigger picture.


I think he's a rather typical Usenet punk who just likes to argue really
absurd ****. Such as me referring to the car I was assigned by my employer
as "MY CAR" I have NO idea what he thinks I should have called it. BUT he
thinks he was scoring big on that issue.

<adventuremyk> wrote in message
...

>>>I have a few problems with your methodology.
>
>>I like this unbiased methodology. It's simply done, easy to
>>understand and shows logic. The cars chosen were not new but 2003 and
>>your sister didn't buy/sell one. And it's correctly prepared with
>>take it with a grain of salt warnings.
>
> Thank you for taking it the way in which it was intended.
>
>>You seem to have problems with everything ever written in this news
>>group. What is it that you are so afraid of? Does your mommy know
>>you whine in this news group? You are coming across as a little boy
>>no experience turnip from small town nowhere. Think big and see a
>>bigger picture.
>
> I'm not sure about a problem with everything ever written. I can
> usually see that he has problems with that KRP lad but then again
> everyone seems to take exception to his lack of consistency.

No not "everyone" just a couple loudmouth wannabe bullies.

" krp" > wrote in message
...

> No not "everyone" just a couple loudmouth wannabe bullies.
>
>

Oh for the love of Pete - just go to your room and whine, please. Bullies -
sheese...

--

-Mike-

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:04:08 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>that's total BS. Look at the JD Powers numbers, there is barely any
>difference at all between they typical import and domestic.

JD Powers is much like the No Child Left Behind laws. Everyone wins
everything with them...