UAW forced to be paid as a Southern Foreign factory worker.

> > wrote in message
> ...
> I beginning to realize you make stuff up. You'll have to come up with
> vetted comparisons before I can stop laughing at your posts. I bet
> you didn't even go see "Sicko".

I agree that there is a lot of profit in the health care business, but I
just don't think it is in the insurance companies (not much anyway). Anyone
can start there own non-profit insurance company as I am sure there are
enough left-wingers to fund one. But in reality, there are already many
non-profit insurance companies. Blue Cross Blue Shield used to be 100%
non-profit and provided the insurance for the majority of Americans at one
time, although some in states they have converted over to for profit
companies. Insurance companies are not the problem, although they appear to
be because they are the ones who are trying cut the cost of medical care on
behalf of those who are funding it (mainly corporate America). Also, most
large companies are self-insured, and only pay insurance companies to do
claims administration.

Medical providers (especially physicians) make much more (probably 2-3 times
as much) as those in UK, Canada, or France. That is a big part of the
problem. I once went to an IT training class and there were some people from
the UK there. One was an ex-physician who said he switched to IT because
being a doctor in the UK did not pay enough.

In 2007 the US total health care spending represented 17 percent of the
gross domestic product (GDP), which is up from 8 percent in 1980. The
percentage is expected to continue to rise. That is way more than UK, CA, or
FR, and there are so many people on the gravy train that it will be very
difficult to stop it. To make matters worse, if one did try to stop it, that
would cause massive new unemployment, so no politician wants to mess with
17% of the GDP right now with all our other problems.

Why then are nearly ALL of the rich shark lawyer Dimocrats? LOL


> wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 3:56 pm, "Mark A" > wrote:
> there is no profit, but it is not as much as one would think. The people
> who
> are getting rich are the doctors, and most of all the ambulance chaser
> lawyers who force doctors to pay about $100,000 for malpractice insurance.
> That's how John Edwards made all his money.

Republicans love and need lawyers more than any other group. Nobody
can lawyer up faster than a republican.

"GILL" > wrote in message
...
> Just a comment on auto insurance, and I may just be talking from my arse
> here, my brother who worked as an adjusters manager told me that the
> insurance co.'s made their big money from investing premiums into the
> stock markets. Might be the next one's in line for a bail-out?

All insurance companies make their money on investments and unfortunately
many of them invested in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage backed bonds
and they also issued credit default swaps.

In the insurance business, the customer pays the premium in advance, so the
insurance company can invest it. They usually just break even on the claims,
although for property and casualty insurance it is a little more volatile
(some profitable years and some losses) because of hurricanes and other
natural disasters.

That is how Warren Buffet got rich. He owns Geico and General Re (which
sells insurance to insurance companies to mediate risk). He then takes the
money and invests it.

AIG, the largest insurance company in world was already bailed out by the
Federal Reserve a few months ago to the tune of $85 billion. The reason is
that held a huge number of mortgage backed securities. But the Fed took an
79.9% equity position in the company in exchange for the $85 billion, so
they could end making a profit down the road.

On Dec 22, 12:56*pm, " >
wrote:
> On Dec 22, 3:41*pm, "Mark A" > wrote:
>
> > "Jack" > wrote in message
>
> > HMO's cover pretty much the same things that are covered in countries that
> > have "free healthcare".
>
> I beginning to realize you make stuff up. *You'll have to come up with
> vetted comparisons before I can stop laughing at your posts. *I bet
> you didn't even go see "Sicko".

He never bothered to look at links as to how other governments handle
healthca

Sick Around the World
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...roundtheworld/

================================================== ==================

The World Health Organization's ranking of the world's health systems
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

"The world health report 2007 - A safer futu global public health
security in the 21st century"

Full report download as a .pdf file:
http://www.who.int/entity/whr/2007/whr07_en.pdf (4.15MB)

================================================== ==================

Healthcare For All: In Western Europe Its a Reality
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91972152

France: Health Care for All
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91970968

Germany: Health Care for All
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91971170

Great Britain: Health Care for All
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91971293

Netherlands: Health Care for All
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91973552

Switzerland: Health Care for All
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91974014

================================================== ===================

Health Ca An International Comparison
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/hea..._profiles.html

Netherlands' Health Care Reflects National Values
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92641635

Keeping German Doctors On A Budget Lowers Costs
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91931036

France At Forefront Of Free, Innovative Cancer Care
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92362918

While the U.S. Spends Heavily on Health Care, a Study Faults the
Quality
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/bu.../17health.html

After-Hours Doctor Calls Save Holland Money
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=92606938

> wrote in message
...
> Republicans love and need lawyers more than any other group. Nobody
> can lawyer up faster than a republican.

If you look at Congress, the percentage of Democrats who are lawyers is far
higher than Republicans.

If you look at presidential candidates since 1984, it is the same:

Reagan, Bush 1, Dole, Bush 2, McCain - none were lawyers

Modale, Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama - all lawyers.

You are so full of crap.

> "Jim Higgins" > wrote in message
> news:e0dd6d0d-bc54-4491-8bf5-
> He never bothered to look at links as to how other governments handle
> healthca

I know how they do it, and I didn't even say I am against it.

But the fact is that the quality of health care in the US is much higher
than other countries if one is willing to pay, and even for the average
corporate employee whose company foots 80-100% of the bill. But I don't
think we can afford that level of quality anymore.

But considering the number of people who get rich in the US health care
business, it will hard to change it. Getting the government to pay is not
going to help unless we drastically reduce the cost.

"Mark A" > wrote in message
.. .
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> BUT, how many people have good healthcare plans? The number is
>> dwindling. In addition, very few can afford the increasing costs of
>> medical treatments without an HMO. Do you know the stats on how many
>> people use emergency rooms as their doctor? All opponents of
>> universal healthcare say taxes will increase. Well, I will lose my
>> excellent medical plan soon when I'm outsourced and layed off. To
>> provide something similar will cost me $12,000 or more a year. That
>>is going to be a stretch if I wind up making $25,000 a year in one of
>> the few service jobs still available.
>
> In virtually all countries that provide government health care, they
> decide what doctor you go to, they decide what treatment will be done
> (unless you go to a private doctor and pay for it yourself). Even if you
> get the treatment you want, you might have wait months or years to get it,
> unless it is emergency surgery. If you are of a certain age, they will
> often not approve certain procedures because they cost too much for
> someone who doesn't have a lot of years to live (they decide what "a lot"
> means).

I don't know what countries you are talking about, but here in Canada, I can
choose whatever Doctor I want, I and my Doctor decide what treatment I get,
and the waiting times are much less then most people think they are. As for
you comment about age, that is pure bull ****.

"80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
...
> I don't know what countries you are talking about, but here in Canada, I
> can choose whatever Doctor I want, I and my Doctor decide what treatment I
> get, and the waiting times are much less then most people think they are.
> As for you comment about age, that is pure bull ****.

I can't speak about CA but in most European countries if a patient has a
serious disease and are over a certain age, they might not spend as much
money treating you as if you were younger (depending on what the treatment
costs are).

You cannot go to "any" doctor and get free care, you can only go to doctors
who are paid by the national health care plan. That is like an HMO and why
people in the US complain about it. A lot of Canadians come to the US and
pay for healthcare out of their own pocket, to get the treatment they want.

Besides the shark lawyers, one of the primary reason healthcare costs are so
high in the US is BECAUSE of the government! It SETS the Medicare
reimbursement rates very high. Any doctor or hospital that accepts
Medicare patients MUST charge the SET Medicare reimbursement rates TO
EVERYBODY or they can be charged with Medicare fraud!

The reason the government sets the rates high is to pay the doctors and
hospital to provide the so called FREE care to the indigent under the US
Hill Burton Act. The government IS the cause NOT the cure.

Our local volunteer ambulance corps was shut down by the feds for Medicare
fraud. The feds took all of their money and sold all of their equipment
and were ready to put the VOLUNTEER leaders in jail, untill a US Senator
stepped in and stopped the lunacy. The problem was the Medicare
reimbursement rate to the hospital, three miles out of town, was $750 but
the corps only charged the VOLUNTEER fireman's insurance company $250!


"Mark A" > wrote in message
.. .
>> "Jim Higgins" > wrote in message
>> news:e0dd6d0d-bc54-4491-8bf5-
>> He never bothered to look at links as to how other governments handle
>> healthca
>
> I know how they do it, and I didn't even say I am against it.
>
> But the fact is that the quality of health care in the US is much higher
> than other countries if one is willing to pay, and even for the average
> corporate employee whose company foots 80-100% of the bill. But I don't
> think we can afford that level of quality anymore.
>
> But considering the number of people who get rich in the US health care
> business, it will hard to change it. Getting the government to pay is not
> going to help unless we drastically reduce the cost.
>

Really? I had an angina attack and went to the local hospital. The ER
doctor their told me I needed to be seen by a cardiologist at once. Ten
minutes later he was there. He sent me by helicopter to one to the best
cardiology hospital in the world, just 50 miles away. When I arrived they
gave me a test and told me I needed heart bypasses surgery. Only seven
hours after my attack I was in the recovery room.

My friend was hunting in Canada and suffered a hart attack. He was taken
by ambulance on a five hour ride to a hospital. Thee DAYS later he was
seen by a cardiologist, who told him he needed heart bypass surgery. The
cardiologist told him they would put him on a monitor to watch him untill
they could do the surgery in THREE to FOUR weeks.

He engaged an air ambulance to take him the St Luke's in Milwaukie and was
operated on the next
day.

Any America that thinks we should have government healthcare was never in
the US military and if they were, they certainly were never in a VA hospital


"80 Knight" <nospam> wrote in message
...
> "Mark A" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> BUT, how many people have good healthcare plans? The number is
>>> dwindling. In addition, very few can afford the increasing costs of
>>> medical treatments without an HMO. Do you know the stats on how many
>>> people use emergency rooms as their doctor? All opponents of
>>> universal healthcare say taxes will increase. Well, I will lose my
>>> excellent medical plan soon when I'm outsourced and layed off. To
>>> provide something similar will cost me $12,000 or more a year. That
>>>is going to be a stretch if I wind up making $25,000 a year in one of
>>> the few service jobs still available.
>>
>> In virtually all countries that provide government health care, they
>> decide what doctor you go to, they decide what treatment will be done
>> (unless you go to a private doctor and pay for it yourself). Even if you
>> get the treatment you want, you might have wait months or years to get
>> it, unless it is emergency surgery. If you are of a certain age, they
>> will often not approve certain procedures because they cost too much for
>> someone who doesn't have a lot of years to live (they decide what "a lot"
>> means).
>
> I don't know what countries you are talking about, but here in Canada, I
> can choose whatever Doctor I want, I and my Doctor decide what treatment I
> get, and the waiting times are much less then most people think they are.
> As for you comment about age, that is pure bull ****.
>